I'm not trolling. Go through and tell me which of those weren't used as excuses for sub-par performance by a Kings young player?
GDT: 2021-22 season game 63 LA Kings vs San Jose Sharks @7:00pm 3/17/22
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I'm not trolling. Go through and tell me which of those weren't used as excuses for sub-par performance by a Kings young player?
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Yikes. He has not been better than AA or Kupari. Brown is debatable if you exclude the first portion of the year. I'll give you Vilardi.
If he was told to play carefully then the Kings should have traded him immediately upon hearing that diagnosis.
As for his development, he's got 70+ NHL games under his belt to go along with his 70+ AHL games. He still played a good amount of OHL games in his D + 1 season since he went on a 16 game playoff run. I'm not arguing that he didn't lose a lot of valuable time (2019) or that he has had to overcome a lot but I'm evaluating a guy that has shown he can consistently crush it at the AHL level but has left us all wanting a lot more at the NHL level save for his initial stint in 2020.
It's just the World Championships but his one point and -4 in 10 games for Canada was extremely disappointing as well. I want to say "It's just the WC's" but then I look at Trevor Moore breaking out in it and then crushing it this season. Other guys at the top of the scoring list for last year are Jason Robertson, Connor Brown, Mangiapane, Garland. I bet most of this board wouldn't have traded Vilardi for any of those guys except for Robertson (would have been a lot of arguments to keep Vilardi) before this season started but now look where we are. I want Vilardi to work out but I'd probably flip him for any of those guys right now. I don't even know what planet I'm on when I would rather have Trevor Moore than Vilardi because it is not the planet I was on nine months ago but, again, here we are.
I didn't think his skating would be too much of an issue because he has too much skill and vision but he just does not look like he can keep up out there. If you are having trouble keeping up but then play small on top of it, you don't really have much of a chance.
Hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I’m just curious why the mess-ups by Brown are so magnified and proof of how awful he is, but the mess-ups of Byfield are not. I just think they should both be acknowledged. You gave us one and I just balanced it out by giving another.
AA has 9 goals in 22 games, doing exactly what the Kings have paid him to do. I don’t know how you can say he has been one of the worst forwards on the team, you may not like his assigned role within the roster but he’s doing what is asked of him.
The rest are meh, I’ve seen more out of Kupari than any of the other young forwards but it’s not not like he’s been amazing. Brown and Vilardi have had rough seasons.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
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Dustin Brown - the third line with him has largely been disappointing. It was visible with Kupari and Byfield, especially this year. He has not been great 5-on-5, and even more underwhelming on the powerplay (both because of his production AND because of him taking time away from someone more qualified and capable).
COVID - Considering some players still have not played since contracting it, saying it's "an excuse" for anyone is pretty gross. I don't think it applies to Byfield, but it IS a valid point for other people afflicted by it.
Athanasiou - He is a very skilled player who plays a very selfish game. Probably not a good linemate for players trying to learn a system. It's like with Kopitar - not all players gel well with him. It doesn't make Kopitar a bad player, but it's bad compatibility. I don't see how that's controversial, but I guess here we are?
AHL Usage - is a valid critique, in my opinion. I think it's silly to have players get top-six ice time in the AHL, then promote them to the NHL and have them get a different role.
Tony Granato - Wisconsin was a disappointment and Granato hitched his wagon to Cole Caufield. Is Turcotte where we want him to be? No. Would he be better off today if he stayed another season in Wisconsin? It's arguable. But I don't think it would be drastically different.
Rob Blake - His inability to set up a better developmental system is actually a crux of where my concern with the prospects is. But if you're saying something else regarding this, feel free to expand.
Season Long Viral Infections - you mean mono? Do you not think that has a role in a decline?
Rasmus Kupari - I don't know anyone who's using Kupari as a source of grief. Want to expand?
Coaching Staff/NHL usage - Do you think he's handling the prospects, particularly up front, well? If not, then why is this being listed as an excuse if you agree with it?
It IS possible all of the above are true AND a rookie is having a rough stretch of games. If you think he's playing as poorly now as he did when he first stepped on the ice, then we'll just disagree.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
I put Vilardi high on the list of prospects to move - esp due to his expiring waiver exemption status. The org doesnt really have to time to see if he can figure it out. I would not be surprised to see him moved over the summer.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
One is a 37 year old vet with nearly two decades of NHL and international experience.
One is a 19 year old NHL rookie.
Your bad-faith stonewalling disguised as honest discussion and a sudden deliberate inability to parse nuance is just lame, especially given half of your discussions re: the lack of prospect growth rely on half of that list of 'excuses' you made.
For a guy who goes hard at Blake for displaying 'smartest man in the room' attributes you sure show a poor sense of self-awareness.
I see flashes of raw potential in Byfield. I see hustle and hands.
I hate his small stick and the style it produces and I think it is an issue.
For a big guy he just isn’t very physical. I’d like for him to go beast mode but I just don’t see it in him.
Very early in his career is all I will say.
I hate his small stick and the style it produces and I think it is an issue.
For a big guy he just isn’t very physical. I’d like for him to go beast mode but I just don’t see it in him.
Very early in his career is all I will say.
So what how old either one is? We are talking about making basic hockey plays. If we are having an honest discussion about how they have played why are we only highlighting the faults of certain ones when it comes to making basic plays like making or receiving a pass. Yes, Brown has had trouble making and receiving passes all year, so has QB. No NHL player should have trouble making or receiving passes, whether it is an 18 year old or a 40 year old.
You said no one is making excuses for them and that I was making it up and simply gave a list of excuses you have used for Alex Turcotte and QB since you said I was imagining it. Apparently now citing the excuses you used in the past (some valid, some ridiculous) is a violation of board rules.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
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Yes, you need to buy as many lottery scratcher tickets as you can get your hands on, and then sometimes after you scrape off the first spot you sell it to the highest bidder for something that is good, but not quite the max jackpot.
Sorry, I'm just sitting laughing my ass off at all this.....
From judging Byfield and Villardi by how many hits they have thrown, when that is probably one of the worst kept stats in the NHL,
To nearly shitcanning Byfield before his 20th birthday, because you didn't believe everyone that said he was a project when he was drafted,
You guys enjoy...
Just for shits n giggles, Boldy - 16 hits, Dahlen, 10 hits, MErcer 17 hits...
From judging Byfield and Villardi by how many hits they have thrown, when that is probably one of the worst kept stats in the NHL,
To nearly shitcanning Byfield before his 20th birthday, because you didn't believe everyone that said he was a project when he was drafted,
You guys enjoy...
Just for shits n giggles, Boldy - 16 hits, Dahlen, 10 hits, MErcer 17 hits...
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
If you are being productive while not being physical then more power to you. If you don't score and don't hit, what are you doing?
Everyone knew he was a "project" but not in the sense that he wouldn't be able to handle the puck. I'm still not "shitcanning" him but he's behind where the Kings thought he would be at this point. Same with Vilardi. Same with Turcotte. Does it mean it's all over for them? No; however, it isn't a good thing.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
I can't remember who in the org was saying it but the general idea is when you're not bringing your A game, what's your B game, C game?
I'm not sure these guys have that quite yet
I know there's probably a joke in there about 'always bringing his C game' or something but you get the idea. Vilardi is kind of game to game with it, I thought he was excellent the previous game even without production, not as much this one. Byfield right now is more shift to shift, he's got an A shift then follows it up with 2 C/D shifts. It's tough sledding for all of them, and maybe I'm too confident they'll iron it out, but I guess I feel like a lot of folks around here have a hard time remembering what 'normal' 19-20 year olds look like since the only ones we've seen in the last 10+ years are Doughty and Kopitar. They're typically a total mess.
Choralone
Registered User
Are we going to give Byfield the Dwight King treatment and get mad because he's a big guy but not blowing people up all over the ice? I just want him to be hard to play against - however that takes shape.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
Dude, take a break man. Herby is making legit, reasonable arguments. He’s not trolling or arguing in bad faith. You don’t have to agree, but his take is a strong one. It’s an internet message board. Nothing more tiring than talking down to one another.
Kopitar is a big guy and never blew anyone up, but he used his body and his reach advantage to protect and advance the puck. That's the hope I have for Byfield.
Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
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I was simply replying to the idea that excuses aren't consistently used for struggling Kings prospects, that I was "imagining it". You can say they are valid or not valid, but it's been more excuses than analysis of play on the ice for both players.
Brown has been horrible, no debate, but the idea that he was dragging down a performing Byfield was ridiculous. They both pulled their own weight in playing awful this year. Neither has looked like an NHL player this season.
Covid, a ton of players have had Covid. Is it possible that Byfield and Turcotte's development has beens stalled by it? Yes, Is it likely? No. For 99% of pro athletes it was a return to normal.
AA, that line was asked to generate secondary offense in low pressure situations, AA has done it with everyone else he played with this year. People are critical but for what the Kings are expecting out of him he has pulled his weight. If QB and Brown looked that bad in low-pressure situations playing with one of the more efficient goal-scorers on the team this year (when hes been in the lineup) its more on them and not on AA. I think you know I am not a huge AA fan, but he has been far from a problem this year.
Rob Blake, hey I didn't say all the excuses were not valid. Rob Blake at the very least delayed the development of these players and possibly did significant damage (we will see). That being said, at this point some of the responsibility is going to start to shift to the players to maximize the potential that is left, even if the GM did make poor development decisions. For Byfield that is going to be getting up to a respectable level of production and play next season.
Tony Granato and Cole Caufield were not the reason Alex Turcotte struggled to score in college, Alex Turcotte struggled to score in college because he has an offensive ceiling that was less than expected from a player taken where he was taken in the draft. As far as the injuries and the mono being the reason. During conference play Alex Turcotte went goal-less in his first 20 Big Ten games before scoring in the tournament vs. OSU. His B10 season totals were 1-7-8 in 21 GP but outside of conference play vs. mostly lesser teams he scored 8-10-18. Did the mono disappear vs. lesser teams or was it the level of the competition? In the two years as a pro does it look like the offense is there? So why cling to the ideas that it was there in college just being held back by excuses. There isn't a scorer waiting to explode.
NHL usage. TM is trying to win games, that was the mandate from management. And to be honest, I think them sticking with QB for now for 25 games of pretty uninspiring play while still maintaining a playoff team has been a feather in Todd's cap. Are they being given #1 PP time? No, does that mean that QB, Vilardi, JAD and Turcotte should be nothings this year for the Kings with their opportunities? No. Kaliyev and Durzi have not been given incredible opportunities (atleast until the D injuries) but both elevated their plays despite that. Is that to much to ask for a bunch of high pick forwards to produce more than 7 points in 45 combined games in a no defensive responsibility role not facing other teams top checkers and d-pairs? I think it's a big concern and don't think it's fair to place blame on others instead of the players themselves.
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His trade value is probably not very high.
If hypothetically the Kings were selling at this deadline what veteran would you offer for Owen Tippett or Casey Mittlestadt? Probably not a very good one.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
What do you think should be done with Vilardi? pencil him onto the roster next year and pray? I dont see many other options based on your valid point. Would suck to lose him Hickey style - ride the stock down into the pink sheets.
LAK Insider: FINAL – Kings 3, Sharks 0 – Kopitar, Durzi, McLellan
The Sartorial Secret Behind the 'Schneid' - How German tailors made it to American sportswriting
I had to look that up. Never heard the word "schneid" before.
The Sartorial Secret Behind the 'Schneid' - How German tailors made it to American sportswriting
Is there a place which published game by game Time on Ice statistics? I didn't see it on the NHL's Game Summary.
Yes, I think the best option is to just keep Vilardi and see what happens next year. It's unlikely a 22 year old player with skating issues and 1 point in 11 games is going to generate much interest on his own. If Arizona or someone want him as part of a package then yeah you can indlude him. My guess is that Vilardi inks a one-year prove it deal with the Kings both him and JAD are in camp next season and it'll be their last chance to stick. If he can't establish himself in the NHL by the end of camp in his D+6 then you just have to write him off as a bust.
Him, JAD, Lias, Turcotte, Fagemo are probably competing for 2-3 roster spots.
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