GDT: 2020 World Series: (AL) Tampa Bay Rays vs (NL) Los Angeles Dodgers - LAD wins 4-2

[GIN ANTONIC]

True. But Anderson still gave up the lead. He's a major league pitcher. He didn't get the job done.

It's really too bad this is how most will remember the Rays season. Lowest payroll. No fans (Even pre Covid). Yet, they continue to impress. They look like a team that has the potential to be a WS contender for years to come. They just need to keep their stars.

Easier said than done.

Anderson had given up runs in his last 6 appearances. Cash brought him in and he continued that trend giving him the playoff record for most consecutive relief appearances giving up a run. Anderson did exactly what he's been doing the past two series. It's on him for sucking but that was already a known factor. Cash was the one who said 'Yeah, I'm good with it'.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

You're assuming that a computer can't do those things, but a human being can? There are obvious "intangibles", but I don't think they can be any more accurately ascertained by humans than computers.

The pitching stuff isn't really anything. Programming limits for pitchers wouldn't be very difficult at all.

Well the computer would have probably put Anderson in for Snell right? I mean obviously the human did too but my point is the computer is going to get burned because it's always going to just say 'this is the best statistical matchup' and we know that doesn't always produce the desired outcome. It might win on a lot of small decisions but it will lose on some big ones that drastically affect the game. Not saying that is immune to humans but we have the choice to deviate if we feel the situation calls for it. A computer can't just decide not to follow it's own protocol.

 

[Static]

Well the computer would have probably put Anderson in for Snell right? I mean obviously the human did too but my point is the computer is going to get burned because it's always going to just say 'this is the best statistical matchup' and we know that doesn't always produce the desired outcome. It might win on a lot of small decisions but it will lose on some big ones that drastically affect the game. Not saying that is immune to humans but we have the choice to deviate if we feel the situation calls for it. A computer can't just decide not to follow it's own protocol.

I have no idea what a computer would have done, bit it would definitely be an interesting thesis over a full season.

 

[Prominence Problem]

I wonder what someone like Margot thinks on Tampa Bay. In June he lost his father to a battle with covid-19.

Me myself, I have a compromised immune system. Two years ago I underwent a bone marrow stem cell transplant to help fight my MS. What Turner showed is absolutely disgusting and selfish! To hear he just really wanted to celebrate the win with teammates and coaches is so irresponsible. There's a lot of things I want to do, but I can't.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

You're assuming that a computer can't do those things, but a human being can? There are obvious "intangibles", but I don't think they can be any more accurately ascertained by humans than computers.

The pitching stuff isn't really anything. Programming limits for pitchers wouldn't be very difficult at all.

Of course they can. How does a computer know if a pitcher has his stuff. Anderson was crap in every appearance. If your going to just use a computer why waste money on a pitching coach? He would be a waste of space.

 

[Hockeyholic]

This article is something else. Dynasty? Seriously?

Dodgers dominate, but are they a dynasty?

 

[John Price]

I don't want to sound like a luddite but I found this rather interesting from Tony La Russa.



I am a fan of restricted analytics. You should use it as a tool. But you should not get carried away.

Too many times people are carried away by analytics. The opener. Guy comes in and pitches like 3 innings and then leaves the game. No grindy games anymore.

 

[Static]

Of course they can. How does a computer know if a pitcher has his stuff. Anderson was crap in every appearance. If your going to just use a computer why waste money on a pitching coach? He would be a waste of space.

Plenty of times during these playoffs when pitchers have said they had terrible stuff in their pregame bullpen and came out and pitched extremely well. I don't think that's a great argument.

La Russa's quote on "heart" and "guts" is just laughable. This isn't toward you, just combining thoughts.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I have no idea what a computer would have done, bit it would definitely be an interesting thesis over a full season.

Again, that's part of my point. Use that strategy to GET you to the dance because over the larger sample size it will work out more often than not. Once you're there you have to base each decision on that specific scenario. In a regular season where you have (generally) 161 other games for the data to even out you can take the losses as long as you get more wins at the end of the day. It's different in a playoff series when you HAVE to win in that specific moment or you're done. You don't get to say, 'If we did that 10 more times it would probably work out 6-7 times the way I wanted to.'

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Again, that's part of my point. Use that strategy to GET you to the dance because over the larger sample size it will work out more often than not. Once you're there you have to base each decision on that specific scenario. In a regular season where you have (generally) 161 other games for the data to even out you can take the losses as long as you get more wins at the end of the day. It's different in a playoff series when you HAVE to win in that specific moment or you're done. You don't get to say, 'If we did that 10 more times it would probably work out 6-7 times the way I wanted to.'

exactly. at some point gut feeling and common sense need to outweigh what the probabilities say to do.

Common sense says if your ace is rolling through 73 pitches, you dont take him out of a 1 run must win game to put in a reliever who gave up runs in 5 straight appearances

 

[Voight]

Uhhhh.... we're going to have to agree to disagree here. If you don't think that top athletes care about being 'the guy' in the big moment when they are the star of their team then I think there's a bit of a disconnect. If Snell happily gave up the ball and said 'Sure thing, Kevin. I trust you. Maybe I can't get these guys out.'... that's probably not a player you want on your team, especially in crucial moments.

I don't know how you could think Snell isn't absolutely fuming and pissed off with being taken out there. Regardless of the 'right decisions' that were made in the regular season.

Players literally dream out being THE guy in huge moments, such as an elimination game during the World Series

 

[StreetHawk]

exactly. at some point gut feeling and common sense need to outweigh what the probabilities say to do.

Common sense says if your ace is rolling through 73 pitches, you dont take him out of a 1 run must win game to put in a reliever who gave up runs in 5 straight appearances

Rays treated Snell like it was Pedro vs the Yankees when he was left in the game in the 9th or 10th inning having tossed 120 pitches or something.

 

[PanthersPens62]

I wonder what someone like Margot thinks on Tampa Bay. In June he lost his father to a battle with covid-19.

Me myself, I have a compromised immune system. Two years ago I underwent a bone marrow stem cell transplant to help fight my MS. What Turner showed is absolutely disgusting and selfish! To hear he just really wanted to celebrate the win with teammates and coaches is so irresponsible. There's a lot of things I want to do, but I can't.

Totally with you. You know, I can almost understand him coming out like he did at 1st with his mask on because winning the WS is very likely a once in a lifetime thing for him & he wanted to share it with his teammates. But then when he smugly removed his mask during the team picture I wanted nothing more than to smack him in his shit-eating grin face. Hopefully not too many innocent people will get sick because of that selfish act.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Having watched it a second and third time, it's still unbelievable to me how Betts scores on that Seager rollover to take the lead. Tampa was holding him on at 3rd and had the infield in, and he still scored. I think he might be the only guy in the league to score on that.

The second replay you can see he takes a timely, big secondary lead and has momentum already built up as he sprints home. There's a lot of guys who are faster but dumber and worse baserunners that don't really come close to scoring on that, imo.

 

[Runner77]

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Is it true that Snell never went beyond the 6th inning in any game this season? Doesn't necessarily make the decision any better, but they were still just doing what got them there.

And ultimately, you're still trying to win an elimination WS game with only scoring 1 run. That more than even the pitching decision was the reason they lost. Had the Dodgers been shut out in any game all season? I think it's pretty reasonable to assume they were going to get at least 1.

And in a regular season game you would stick to preserving him

But this is his final outing for 5 months he has plenty of time to recover and again 75 pitches no high stress innings....as a manager you have to have a feel for the game. Its not regular season the playoffs are not the same

 

[JeremyTB]

Best tweet was from someone who said a player with covid played longer in the game than the guy pitching a shutout.

 

[Terry Yake]

Rays treated Snell like it was Pedro vs the Yankees when he was left in the game in the 9th or 10th inning having tossed 120 pitches or something.

yeah, what was snell's pitch count when he was removed? couldn't have been more than 90 pitches

there was simply zero reason to take him out. that's as bad of a call as the hawks throwing it from the 1 yd line in the SB against NE

 

[c9777666]

This was worse than Pedro.

Even if Grady pulls him, no gimme Boston beats the Marlins in the WS.

This WAS the World Series and it cost them.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Seems like gratuitous monday morning quarterbacking. Of course he should have left him in..they lost. If they had left him in and still lost, it probably would have been wrong, too.

There's no real reason to coach WS game 6 any differently than any other game you hope to win. There's no magic energy in playoff games that means other rules apply or your thinking should be influenced by 'guts and glory' sentimental stuff because it's an "important game". If you believe in your approach in June, you believe it in October.

 

[SSF]

he was at 73 pitches when he was removed.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

I don't agree with Cash. Snell's 2020 playoffs post-4th inning ERA was 12.56 at the time.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Seems like gratuitous monday morning quarterbacking. Of course he should have left him in..they lost. If they had left him in and still lost, it probably would have been wrong, too.

There's no real reason to coach WS game 6 any differently than any other game you hope to win. There's no magic energy in playoff games that means other rules apply or your thinking should be influenced by 'guts and glory' sentimental stuff because it's an "important game". If you believe in your approach in June, you believe it in October.

It’s absolutely not the same in the playoffs as reg season. You’re facing the best of the best and you don’t have the luxury of punting a game like in the regular season.

This year was a slight exception due to schedule but the playoffs even more so in that you’re playing a ton of games in a short amount of time. You have to manage your starters and bullpen differently.

Most importantly in a do or die game you don’t hold anything back.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Good video per usual from this guy. He presents many counter-arguments using analytics himself against the move.

 

[c9777666]

Good video per usual from this guy. He presents many counter-arguments using analytics himself against the move.

Jomboy is a legend