GDT: 2020 Beanpot - Where Eagles Dare - Feb 3 and 10

[AKL]

There is a big difference between playing against collegians and playing in the pros. Hell, I knew a guy who played 4 years at Mankato, and he maintained that the ECHL was bigger, faster, smarter. He also said that there is a difference playing against grown men who are making a living at hockey, and college hockey.

There are always some special cases who can jump straight to the NHL, but the vast majority can't skip steps. Boldy needs more time. I can't say how much time. Some athletes turn a corner suddenly, others take the gradual route. Right now, he skates slowly, and is weak. He would be lost in the AHL.

Think of it this way. If your child is having trouble in school, say, grade 5, do you think that the way to solve his problems are to move him up to grade 7?

It’s still funny to me to say he needs to work on skating and strength and in the same breath say the NCAA is where he should be.

If you want him to focus on skating and strength and getting adjusted to the pro pace, the AHL is where he should be.

And as an aside, York doesn’t care about Boldy’s professional development. He cares about where Boldy fits in his lineup right now. Usage reflects that. Don’t expect York to do what’s best for Boldy long term, expect him to do what’s best for BC this season.

 

[57special]

Same goes for goalies. I like knight, but Robson looked like a God with the Gophers. Would you want to trade Brodin for Robson?

I am not worried about Boldy, but it would be nice to see a bit more giddyup in his game. His puck handling and passing, while understated, are slick. Would like to see if he could do that at high speed. He didn't get too many shooting chances in that game, so I can't comment on it. Oh, and if he moved his ass a bit more he'd be better defensively.

Looks like we might not see him on the big club till late in the 21-22 season, but who knows? Maybe his time at the USNDP was the height of his career. Maybe he'll dedicate himself to training in the off season, turn into a beast next year, and turn pro in March.

One other thing. If he did start to histle more I can see him being a C. He's got the size, skills, and IQ, and I think he can develop the strength.

 

[Bazeek]

Same goes for goalies. I like knight, but Robson looked like a God with the Gophers. Would you want to trade Brodin for Robson?

I am 100% kidding about Brodin for Knight, fwiw.

 

[57special]

Phew, had me worried there.

Knight does look pretty good, though, and I Would trade Zucker for Newhook. Funny thing is, I think that Newhook IS Zucker, essentially. Don't think he will be a C in the NHL, just a fast, goal scoring W.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I just wonder, if skating and strength are the two biggest areas he needs to work on, wouldn't there be far better opportunities for that in the AHL?



Appeal to authority is one of the most classic logical fallacies in existence. Just saying.

First off, no, not necessarily. You play a lot more games in the AHL...whereas in college you strength train and skate and practice throughout the week. (While also gaining valuable credit at one of the world's top institutes of learning.)

Not to get too far afield, but claiming that my reasoning belongs to a "classic" fallacy is also an appeal to authority. But I'm not using a logical structure, just pointing out that Jerry York has actually had success with his methods, a lot more than even say Don Lucia, who was invoked earlier upthread.

It comes down to each player, but I think the chances of Boldy leaving college are slim to none next season.

 

[AKL]

First off, no, not necessarily. You play a lot more games in the AHL...whereas in college you strength train and skate and practice throughout the week. (While also gaining valuable credit at one of the world's top institutes of learning.)

Not to get too far afield, but claiming that my reasoning belongs to a "classic" fallacy is also an appeal to authority. But I'm not using a logical structure, just pointing out that Jerry York has actually had success with his methods, a lot more than even say Don Lucia, who was invoked earlier upthread.

It comes down to each player, but I think the chances of Boldy leaving college are slim to none next season.

York does what’s best for his team with very little concern about what’s best for Boldy’s long term development.

I have no idea where Boldy will be next year, or where he should be, but just because York is using him a certain way does not mean he’s not ready for the AHL or that he’s better off in the NCAA. York’s usage of Boldy means very little to me. And again, York is not concerned with putting Boldy in the best position to develop, since he’s likely at most only going to be at BC for two years. York is concerned with his team winning championships.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

York does what’s best for his team with very little concern about what’s best for Boldy’s long term development.

I have no idea where Boldy will be next year, or where he should be, but just because York is using him a certain way does not mean he’s not ready for the AHL or that he’s better off in the NCAA. York’s usage of Boldy means very little to me. And again, York is not concerned with putting Boldy in the best position to develop, since he’s likely at most only going to be at BC for two years. York is concerned with his team winning championships.

and he will win championships when he puts his players in the best position to succeed.

Honestly, who do you think cares more about "development" - a youngish AHL coach with his job and future prospects for his entire career on the line or the most successful college coach of all-time, who has basically lifetime tenure and is one who has helped the developments of dozens of NHLers?

 

[AKL]

and he will win championships when he puts his players in the best position to succeed.

Not necessarily. At least not on an individual level.

Boldy being in a position to succeed would be giving him the top offensive minutes with skilled linemates, yet he’s playing with McBain and McPhee for the most part.

What’s best for Boldy and what’s best for the team may (and in this case, almost certainly do) conflict. And in those cases, York should be doing what’s best for the team. And he is.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Not necessarily. At least not on an individual level.

Boldy being in a position to succeed would be giving him the top offensive minutes with skilled linemates, yet he’s playing with McBain and McPhee for the most part.

What’s best for Boldy and what’s best for the team may (and in this case, almost certainly do) conflict. And in those cases, York should be doing what’s best for the team. And he is.

Giving a player who hasn't yet earned top minutes top minutes is almost always a detriment to his personal development, not to mention team culture. If BC makes the NCAA tournament, you might see a coach doing things merely to win, but during the season, it's about helping every guy reach his potential through demanding hard work and improvement and "attention to details." Again, you don't have success just by recruiting good players. You have success by recruiting good players, and elevating them. But that comes down to the individual.

It's why college can be tough. Of course there are guys who are freakish talents: Hull, Kessel, Vanek, Heatly, who in some cases might have coasted. Most guys will be like Boldy: you're no longer playing against boys and there are improvements that have to come through off-ice and on-ice work.

Boldy, like most teens, would be badly out of place in North American pro hockey at this stage.

 

[AKL]

Giving a player who hasn't yet earned top minutes top minutes is almost always a detriment to his personal development, not to mention team culture. If BC makes the NCAA tournament, you might see a coach doing things merely to win, but during the season, it's about helping every guy reach his potential through demanding hard work and improvement and "attention to details." Again, you don't have success just by recruiting good players. You have success by recruiting good players, and elevating them. But that comes down to the individual.

It's why college can be tough. Of course there are guys who are freakish talents: Hull, Kessel, Vanek, Heatly, who in some cases might have coasted. Most guys will be like Boldy: you're no longer playing against boys and there are improvements that have to come through off-ice and on-ice work.

Boldy, like most teens, would be badly out of place in North American pro hockey at this stage.

I don’t think Boldy is over his head at the college level. He played against college teams last year with the USNTDP and excelled. Now he’s playing with McBain and McPhee who don’t even project as NHLers at this point, and when you watch him play he still looks good, but he looks bored, and he looks like he’s coasting half the time. I don’t personally think that’s a coincidence. And I don’t think it’s because he was carried by Hughes and Caufield either.

 

[Bazeek]

Cotton, Mattilla, and McPhee are all seniors and won't be back next year. Hutsko's a junior and it wouldn't surprise me to see Florida pushing to get him signed this summer. Maybe the same for the Oilers and Rasanen.

So that's at least 2/3 of their top line and 1/2 of their top-6 gone. Maybe more. They're a relatively old team this year, but next year a lot more is going to be riding on guys like Boldy, Newhook, Hardman and McBain.

The defense has even more guys graduating. I'd think Warren will be getting big minutes as well.

 

[AKL]

Cotton, Mattilla, and McPhee are all seniors and won't be back next year. Hutsko's a junior and it wouldn't surprise me to see Florida pushing to get him signed this summer. Maybe the same for the Oilers and Rasanen.

So that's at least 2/3 of their top line and 1/2 of their top-6 gone. Maybe more. They're a relatively old team this year, but next year a lot more is going to be riding on guys like Boldy, Newhook, Hardman and McBain.

The defense has even more guys graduating. I'd think Warren will be getting big minutes as well.

I would like to see him played with Newhook and Hardman next season if he stays, but If Mattila and Rasanen leave, I wonder if they try him at one of the top 6 center spots again, in which case he’ll probably be playing with second rate linemates again.

I just watch him play now and wonder if either of those situations are really best for him. If he’s already beaten up on college players before (last year), and one of the biggest reasons he isn’t scoring well this season is his linemates, does it really improve his game to stay and beat up on college players next year? Or does it just look good on a stat sheet.

 

[AKL]

And if Newhook is one and done, would he even get the opportunity to look good on the stat sheet if Hardman and McBain are the best players BC has left?

 

[Bazeek]

I would like to see him played with Newhook and Hardman next season if he stays, but If Mattila and Rasanen leave, I wonder if they try him at one of the top 6 center spots again, in which case he’ll probably be playing with second rate linemates again.

I just watch him play now and wonder either of those situations are really best for him. If he’s already beaten up on college players before (last year), and one of the biggest reasons he isn’t scoring well this season is his linemates, does it really improve his game to stay and beat up on college players next year? Or does it just look good on a stat sheet.

I'd question whether he's really beaten up on college players before. The USNTDP team did, but he was one part of that. Personally I think one of the biggest challenges for him coming out of that program is learning to how to be The Guy instead of just the guy that plays next to The Guy. I think he's getting that chance with BC this year and he'll continue to get it next year, but it's a work in progress.

I don't know, which league is best for which types of development is over my head. I just don't think he's suffering for lack of opportunity or challenges in college.

 

[AKL]

I'd question whether he's really beaten up on college players before. The USNTDP team did, but he was one part of that. Personally I think one of the biggest challenges for him coming out of that program is learning to how to be The Guy instead of just the guy that plays next to The Guy. I think he's getting that chance with BC this year and he'll continue to get it next year, but it's a work in progress.

I don't know, which league is best for which types of development is over my head. I just don't think he's suffering for lack of opportunity or challenges in college.

I get the “learning how to be THE guy” thing, but at a certain point you’re still relying on your linemates to perform, and there’s a drastic difference between Hughes/Caufield and McBain/McPhee. If you can say you believe most of Boldy’s production (lack thereof) is because of the guys he’s playing with not being up to snuff, then what else are you hoping for?

I’m not saying he has nothing left to work on, but he’s also not McDavid or Lafreniere. He’s not going to turn nobodies into stars on the stat line.

I’d be curious to see how many of his points are from connecting with Newhook or the top line vs. his usual linemates. I’m probably going to check that out later.

 

[Bazeek]

I get the “learning how to be THE guy” thing, but at a certain point you’re still relying on your linemates to perform, and there’s a drastic difference between Hughes/Caufield and McBain/McPhee. If you can say you believe most of Boldy’s production (lack thereof) is because of the guys he’s playing with not being up to snuff, then what else are you hoping for?

I’m not saying he has nothing left to work on, but he’s also not McDavid or Lafreniere. He’s not going to turn nobodies into stars on the stat line.

I’d be curious to see how many of his points are from connecting with Newhook or the top line vs. his usual linemates. I’m probably going to check that out later.

I do think his production has suffered due to his linemates. I'm just not sure that that's an impediment to his development right now.

If he's at BC next year on a line with stone-handed grinders, yes, I'll start to worry.

 

[AKL]

I do think his production has suffered due to his linemates. I'm just not sure that that's an impediment to his development right now.

If he's at BC next year on a line with stone-handed grinders, yes, I'll start to worry.

I guess I’m just trying to say that if you believe his lack of production is largely due to his linemates, and that he’d be about a point per game or better player with Mattila/Hutsko or Newhook/Hardman, then it’s pretty reasonable to think he’s ready for the next step.

Not that being at BC next year will necessarily hurt his development, but it also very well might not really help it if he’s ready for harder competition.

 

[57special]

I can see he and Newhook complimenting each other very well.

College is a place where you can work on your game, and your body. Their training facilities, and medical/training expertise is vg to excellent at most large Universities. They tend to take care of you more for meals, also.

The AHL is more of a grind, with fewer people looking out for you. It's sink or swim. When you arrive, you want to make sure that you are ready to swim. Remedial cases tend to just sit. The only time I would recommend the pros over college is for a guy who simply isn't cut out for the academics.

 

[AKL]

Opponent	Goal	Assists
Wisconsin (10/11)	Boldy	Cotton, Finkelstein
Yale (11/26)	Warren	Boldy, McPhee
Notre Dame (12/8)	McBain	Boldy
Vermont (1/4)	Greco	Boldy, McLauhglin
Massachusetts (1/11)	Warren	Boldy, McBain
Massachusetts (1/11)	Boldy	Newhook, Walker
Maine (1/24)	Newhook	Boldy, McInnis
Maine (1/24)	Hutsko	Boldy, Mattila
Maine (1/25)	McPhee	McBain, Boldy
Boston U (2/3)	Newhook	Boldy, McInnis

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Frobbo]

And if Newhook is one and done, would he even get the opportunity to look good on the stat sheet if Hardman and McBain are the best players BC has left?

Newhooks little sister is enrolled at BC to play hockey so there is very little chance he leaves after this year. He has stated that he plans to be there her freshman year. Next year where he is THE Man or at least A MAN at BC would help with his development. York has done a good job of developing players.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

BC up on Harvard 5-2 late in the 2nd.
McBain has a pair and Boldy an assist and 5 shots.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Boldy scored a hockey goal. 6-2

 

[MuckOG]

Boldy scored a hockey goal. 6-2

For real?

 

[Wild11MN]

That means Boldy finally passed... Filip Johansson in goals this year.

 

[AKL]

That means Boldy finally passed... Filip Johansson in goals this year.

Yeah but Boldy scored more goals last season than Filip Johansson has scored in his life at all levels of hockey combined, so we'll give the slight nod to Boldy still