Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part II

[kingsboy11]

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[SFKingshomer]

After some good pondering, I'm fully aboard the Eichel train if it doesn't cost Byfield and an unprotected 22 1st. Some combo of Turcotte, #8, Kempe, etc. is fine by me. I'd still prefer to get Byfield a winger but this is probably the best route to ease him.

 

[The Gabe Blade]

I am a "no" on Eichel, partially because he is looking more and more like this guy; but also I want to stay the course and see how this talent turns out. Don't get me wrong, trading Brayden Schenn was absolutely the right thing to do, but I sure have loved watching that kid play all these years too.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The sad thing about Richards is the Kings only got one full good season out of him. The next season was a lockout and his stats were on pace for another good year. Then the following year which was the second cup run he was basically the 4th center and the following year he played most of the year in la and then in the AHL and it was basically over.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The sad thing about Richards is the Kings only got one full good season out of him. The next season was a lockout and his stats were on pace for another good year. Then the following year which was the second cup run he was basically the 4th center and the following year he played most of the year in la and then in the AHL and it was basically over.

You can almost nail it down to an exact moment, too.

It took him a while to shake off the cobwebs from the Bergenheim hit but him and Doughty were our two best players in the 2013 push (and then Doughty hurt his ankle in game 7 vs. the Sharks) until Bolland headshot him behind the net. It was all she wrote after that

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The sad thing about Richards is the Kings only got one full good season out of him. The next season was a lockout and his stats were on pace for another good year. Then the following year which was the second cup run he was basically the 4th center and the following year he played most of the year in la and then in the AHL and it was basically over.

I see nothing 'sad' about it -- we got two cups.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Bergenheim hit definitely put Richards on life support. But the Bolland hit pulled the plug.

 

[kilowatt]

After some good pondering, I'm fully aboard the Eichel train if it doesn't cost Byfield and an unprotected 22 1st. Some combo of Turcotte, #8, Kempe, etc. is fine by me. I'd still prefer to get Byfield a winger but this is probably the best route to ease him.

I think what acquiring Eichel and keeping Byfield would allow us to do is re-sign Kopitar after his contract ends and use him as out second or third line defensive center.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think what acquiring Eichel and keeping Byfield would allow us to do is re-sign Kopitar after his contract ends and use him as out second or third line defensive center.

By that point I would think you're hoping for Eichel, Byfield, and JAD to be the trio. Unless Kopitar is taking a deep discount. Even then, he shouldn't be part of too many plans beyond this contract.

 

[BigKing]

By that point I would think you're hoping for Eichel, Byfield, and JAD to be the trio. Unless Kopitar is taking a deep discount. Even then, he shouldn't be part of too many plans beyond this contract.

He'd be 37 at the start of his next contract, if he signs one. Dustin Brown will be 37 in November and is coming off of 17 goals/31 points in 49 games and is nowhere near the talent that Kopitar is.

Nobody knows that the future holds but I expect that he will be still be an effective NHL player at age 37 barring any significant injuries between now and then.

Kopitar kind of had Sundin comparisons early on if I remember correctly. There is a guy that put up over a PPG in his last season in Toronto at age 36/37. While he wasn't great in Vancouver the following season as a 37/38 year old (primarily 38 since he held out and only played half the season), he still put up 28 points in 41 games and then was PPG in eight playoff games. I imagine that sitting out that long and then trying to jump into the middle of an NHL season hurt him.

This comparison ignores the fact that Sundin bolted from Toronto when his contract expired at age 37 which is basically what Kopitar will be when his expires. Leafs weren't good and he went to go play on a contender with fellow Swedes but Kopitar could go Cup hunting himself if the Kings are still garbage at that point. Since he's already won two of them though and seems to like living here, I think the Kings would bring him back if he wanted to come back and is still effective. This is where your "deep discount" has to factor in but, who knows, he could just go with the old one-year-at-a-time deal and be team friendly.

Father Time always wins so, yes, there shouldn't be too many plans beyond this contract but I truly believe that he will still be a good player at the start of his next contract. He'll pass Brown for the all-time mark for games played as a King by finishing out the current contract (no injuries) and he is 307 points behind Dionne for the all-time points record. Probably not going to catch him if you give Kopitar around 60 points a season over the remainder of the current deal. That puts him around ~130 points short at 37 years old. Thornton has scored 188 points from his 37 year old season to present. Drop the last two seasons off of Thornton and he is at 137 points for his age 37, 38 and 39 seasons.

It's kind of crazy, sure, but it is also kind of in play.

 

[kinghock]

I think what acquiring Eichel and keeping Byfield would allow us to do is re-sign Kopitar after his contract ends and use him as out second or third line defensive center.

Kopitar is already much slower than he was 2 years ago.
I do not believe this regression can be reversible.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I'm still a hard "no" on Eichel for any number of reasons. Third $10+ million cap hit, asset cost to acquire, his not wanting to play for a rebuilding team, and the neck injury just scares me.

 

[Herby]

The sad thing about Richards is the Kings only got one full good season out of him. The next season was a lockout and his stats were on pace for another good year. Then the following year which was the second cup run he was basically the 4th center and the following year he played most of the year in la and then in the AHL and it was basically over.

The Kings won the 2014 Stanley Cup despite starting the year with Matt Frattin and the corpse of Mike Richards making up 2/3 of the 2nd line. Still blows my mind.

Lombardi did a heck of a job that season fixing a disaster on the fly.

 

[KingsFan7824]

He'd be 37 at the start of his next contract, if he signs one. Dustin Brown will be 37 in November and is coming off of 17 goals/31 points in 49 games and is nowhere near the talent that Kopitar is.

Nobody knows that the future holds but I expect that he will be still be an effective NHL player at age 37 barring any significant injuries between now and then.

Kopitar kind of had Sundin comparisons early on if I remember correctly. There is a guy that put up over a PPG in his last season in Toronto at age 36/37. While he wasn't great in Vancouver the following season as a 37/38 year old (primarily 38 since he held out and only played half the season), he still put up 28 points in 41 games and then was PPG in eight playoff games. I imagine that sitting out that long and then trying to jump into the middle of an NHL season hurt him.

This comparison ignores the fact that Sundin bolted from Toronto when his contract expired at age 37 which is basically what Kopitar will be when his expires. Leafs weren't good and he went to go play on a contender with fellow Swedes but Kopitar could go Cup hunting himself if the Kings are still garbage at that point. Since he's already won two of them though and seems to like living here, I think the Kings would bring him back if he wanted to come back and is still effective. This is where your "deep discount" has to factor in but, who knows, he could just go with the old one-year-at-a-time deal and be team friendly.

Father Time always wins so, yes, there shouldn't be too many plans beyond this contract but I truly believe that he will still be a good player at the start of his next contract. He'll pass Brown for the all-time mark for games played as a King by finishing out the current contract (no injuries) and he is 307 points behind Dionne for the all-time points record. Probably not going to catch him if you give Kopitar around 60 points a season over the remainder of the current deal. That puts him around ~130 points short at 37 years old. Thornton has scored 188 points from his 37 year old season to present. Drop the last two seasons off of Thornton and he is at 137 points for his age 37, 38 and 39 seasons.

It's kind of crazy, sure, but it is also kind of in play.

It's all about context of the moment, but Brown shouldn't be part of any particular plan beyond next season either. If he's feeling good, wants to come back cheap, reduced role, etc, I don't care if he comes back. Anything short of that though, and what's a 38 year old doing around here?

Of course, anything the Kings could do soon to relieve Kopitar of stress on the body, might help extend his career. Whether that's Eichel, a quality defensive center, a prospect making a real impact, some help on the wings, whatever it would be, any or all of it would help. But that likely means spending money, somewhere. If he's taking every faceoff again, playing 20+ min a night, having to PK as the top option, then the Kings didn't do enough. 4 of his top 5 TOI seasons have come in the last 4 years, as he's gotten older. That can't keep happening.

 

[Gjwrams]

Kopitar is already much slower than he was 2 years ago.
I do not believe this regression can be reversible.

This is not meant to disparage Kopi, but in reality he is a 2nd/3rd center logging 1st line minutes at this point in his carrer.

 

[Herby]

After some good pondering, I'm fully aboard the Eichel train if it doesn't cost Byfield and an unprotected 22 1st. Some combo of Turcotte, #8, Kempe, etc. is fine by me. I'd still prefer to get Byfield a winger but this is probably the best route to ease him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is not meant to disparage Kopi, but in reality he is a 2nd/3rd center logging 1st line minutes at this point in his carrer.

The only '2nd line' centers putting up remotely close to PPG like Kopitar are guys like Tavares and Draisaitl who are getting completely loose deployment as opposed to Kopitar's #1 d-man minutes and hard matchups/pk time.

NO ONE is doing what Kopitar is doing, all of the above on a shit team.

I presume the philosophy is Kopitar plays the defensive stopper minutes so the kids can excel but that failed this year. Going forward, if they want to do that, Vilardi Byfield et. al. have to take advantage of the soft minutes, OR management has to bring in a Danault to eat those minutes so Kopitar can roam free for the first time since his rookie year.

IF neither of the above is true, then yeah, you get what you get--a wearing-down Kopitar playing more minutes than almost any forward in the league, harder minutes than any forward in the league, still excelling production wise and possession wise--still a CLEAR 1C, just used entirely wrong.

man even in a shortened season Kopitar STILL found a way to outscore Drew Doughty by 16 points and his next closest forward by almost 20 (Kopitar 50, Brown 31). And his advanced stats relative to team given that deployment is absurd (8 CF%rel, 8 GF%rel)

 

[kilowatt]

This is not meant to disparage Kopi, but in reality he is a 2nd/3rd center logging 1st line minutes at this point in his carrer.

I could not disagree more. He was the 12th-highest-scoring center on one of the worst teams in the league with Iafallo and Brown flanking him. He averaged the sixth-most time on ice among all forwards. He was 57.3% on faceoffs. What else can Kopitar do convince you guys that he's still one of the best players in the league? He outscored Patrice Bergeron, Brayden Point, and Matthew Barzal. Those guys must suck too then?

 

[Piston]

The only '2nd line' centers putting up remotely close to PPG like Kopitar are guys like Tavares and Draisaitl who are getting completely loose deployment as opposed to Kopitar's #1 d-man minutes and hard matchups/pk time.

NO ONE is doing what Kopitar is doing, all of the above on a shit team.

I presume the philosophy is Kopitar plays the defensive stopper minutes so the kids can excel but that failed this year. Going forward, if they want to do that, Vilardi Byfield et. al. have to take advantage of the soft minutes, OR management has to bring in a Danault to eat those minutes so Kopitar can roam free for the first time since his rookie year.

IF neither of the above is true, then yeah, you get what you get--a wearing-down Kopitar playing more minutes than almost any forward in the league, harder minutes than any forward in the league, still excelling production wise and possession wise--still a CLEAR 1C, just used entirely wrong.

man even in a shortened season Kopitar STILL found a way to outscore Drew Doughty by 16 points and his next closest forward by almost 20 (Kopitar 50, Brown 31).

Exactly, Danault should be the number 1 target in Free Agency even if we have to overpay. The guy is a stud defensively, doesn't take penalties (considering his assignments), wins faceoffs and chips in on offensive. He can replace Kopitar on the PK and by matching up with the other teams #1 center can take pressure off both Kopitar and Byfield/Vilardi/Turcotte. In addition, he immediately makes one of these expendable in a trade for a #1 d-man. He is a huge upgrade playing the Michael Handzus role for the rebuild, yet he is young enough to be a valuable piece when the Kings contend. Offer him $5.5 mm over 5 years and even go another year if you have to win a bidding war. I think it is safe to say we've all been enormously impressed with his play, and he is strangling the Vegas offense.

 

[Gjwrams]

The only '2nd line' centers putting up remotely close to PPG like Kopitar are guys like Tavares and Draisaitl who are getting completely loose deployment as opposed to Kopitar's #1 d-man minutes and hard matchups/pk time.

NO ONE is doing what Kopitar is doing, all of the above on a shit team.

I presume the philosophy is Kopitar plays the defensive stopper minutes so the kids can excel but that failed this year. Going forward, if they want to do that, Vilardi Byfield et. al. have to take advantage of the soft minutes, OR management has to bring in a Danault to eat those minutes so Kopitar can roam free for the first time since his rookie year.

IF neither of the above is true, then yeah, you get what you get--a wearing-down Kopitar playing more minutes than almost any forward in the league, harder minutes than any forward in the league, still excelling production wise and possession wise--still a CLEAR 1C, just used entirely wrong.

man even in a shortened season Kopitar STILL found a way to outscore Drew Doughty by 16 points and his next closest forward by almost 20 (Kopitar 50, Brown 31). And his advanced stats relative to team given that deployment is absurd (8 CF%rel, 8 GF%rel)

Let me clarify my answer. I was merely speaking in terms of slowing down in terms speed because of the grind. Kopi is still a beast, the best player on the Kings and a first ballot HOFer.

 

[Gjwrams]

I could not disagree more. He was the 12th-highest-scoring center on one of the worst teams in the league with Iafallo and Brown flanking him. He averaged the sixth-most time on ice among all forwards. He was 57.3% on faceoffs. What else can Kopitar do convince you guys that he's still one of the best players in the league? He outscored Patrice Bergeron, Brayden Point, and Matthew Barzal. Those guys must suck too then?

Totally agree. I think I didn't clarify myself well. I apologize

 

[BigKing]

It's all about context of the moment, but Brown shouldn't be part of any particular plan beyond next season either. If he's feeling good, wants to come back cheap, reduced role, etc, I don't care if he comes back. Anything short of that though, and what's a 38 year old doing around here?

Of course, anything the Kings could do soon to relieve Kopitar of stress on the body, might help extend his career. Whether that's Eichel, a quality defensive center, a prospect making a real impact, some help on the wings, whatever it would be, any or all of it would help. But that likely means spending money, somewhere. If he's taking every faceoff again, playing 20+ min a night, having to PK as the top option, then the Kings didn't do enough. 4 of his top 5 TOI seasons have come in the last 4 years, as he's gotten older. That can't keep happening.

Agreed. I mentioned this "stat" a couple of weeks ago since it blew my mind. Compare his minutes to Bergeron and it is pretty disgusting.

I criticize Kopitar when he becomes Perimitar for stretches of time but he's still a very good player and the idea that he isn't really a #1C anymore is borderline disrespectful. If you want to say he isn't a #1C on a contender, I guess you could say that except that he would slide in as #1C on Vegas immediately. Montreal too.

This is all part of the allure of an Eichel deal: it could go a long way to reducing Kopitar's minutes. Bergeron plays 18 minutes a night while Kopitar has been playing 21-22 minutes the last four seasons. Is he "noticeably slower" than two seasons ago? I don't know...that would be the 2019 season and he looks the same to me. 2018 is a different story but he's also never looked better than that. Even if he is slower, that is probably a combination of TOI and age so a reduction in the TOI could help extend his career.

I'm not here to argue about the pros/cons of a hypothetical Eichel trade: just stating that reducing Kopitar's minutes is a "pro" and you have to believe that the Kings can contend at some point over the next three years of his contract due to a hypothetical center lineup of Eichel/Kopitar/Byfield/JAD. You really have to believe in Kopitar to be a proponent of an Eichel deal.

 

[Piston]

Agreed. I mentioned this "stat" a couple of weeks ago since it blew my mind. Compare his minutes to Bergeron and it is pretty disgusting.

I criticize Kopitar when he becomes Perimitar for stretches of time but he's still a very good player and the idea that he isn't really a #1C anymore is borderline disrespectful. If you want to say he isn't a #1C on a contender, I guess you could say that except that he would slide in as #1C on Vegas immediately. Montreal too.

This is all part of the allure of an Eichel deal: it could go a long way to reducing Kopitar's minutes. Bergeron plays 18 minutes a night while Kopitar has been playing 21-22 minutes the last four seasons. Is he "noticeably slower" than two seasons ago? I don't know...that would be the 2019 season and he looks the same to me. 2018 is a different story but he's also never looked better than that. Even if he is slower, that is probably a combination of TOI and age so a reduction in the TOI could help extend his career.

I'm not here to argue about the pros/cons of a hypothetical Eichel trade: just stating that reducing Kopitar's minutes is a "pro" and you have to believe that the Kings can contend at some point over the next three years of his contract due to a hypothetical center lineup of Eichel/Kopitar/Byfield/JAD. You really have to believe in Kopitar to be a proponent of an Eichel deal.

Doesn't Danault solve the same problem with far less risk? Plus, you can get him without giving anyone up as opposed to Eichel who will cost a Kings' ransom (pun intended).

 

[LAKings88]

Wrong thread

 

[BigKing]

Doesn't Danault solve the same problem with far less risk? Plus, you can get him without giving anyone up as opposed to Eichel who will cost a Kings' ransom (pun intended).

He definitely helps with the minutes issue but not in the scoring department. He has seven points in 31 career playoff games.

He isn't necessarily a "going for it during Kopitar's current contract" guy but he definitely fits that Handzus comparison. Zeus was 30 when he signed his four year deal here whereas Danault would be 28 so your five year deal actually fits better age-wise than Zeus's four year deal. Cost nothing except cap like Zeus as well.

I'm not against it. Maybe Vilardi gets that move over to wing or is trade bait for a Top 6 wing if they bring in Danault. Of course, he'd have to want to come here so I don't know if that $5.5MM is overpayment or not.