2020-2021 St. Louis Blues: Generic Thread Titles Be Damned (Part III)

[Stupendous Yappi]

Strickland is reporting that Bortuzzo has a broken orbital from the Jost elbow

Of course he does.

The NHL needs to pulls its head out of its ass. When a guy deliberately elbows a guy and breaks his face, even if it got missed during the game, it HAS to be a suspension. Any hit to the head that results in an injury should be treated very seriously. Its the same stupid reasoning the DOPS gave for not suspending Stone. Guys aren't going to think twice about these hits until the league's practices change.

This is the instance where the DOPS is actually correct to penalize the outcome rather than the intent. If they want to get concussions out of the game, they remove these hits. I'd feel the same way if the jerseys were the other way around. (Gotta love the main board narrative about the big mean Blues, when it was Colorado who knocked two players out with head shots.)

 

[JoshFromMO]

Is a broken orbital career ending? The last time this happened that I can remember is Joe Vitale and he needed to quit the game

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Is a broken orbital career ending? The last time this happened that I can remember is Joe Vitale and he needed to quit the game

I would think it would heal. At most, the player would need to wear a cage or something. I don't know the story about Joe Vitale. Pretty sure we've seen plenty of basketball players return from this.

 

[BlueMed]

B-L-U-E-M-A-D
Blues fan since 2019.
Understand it and understand it good.

Strickland is reporting that Bortuzzo has a broken orbital from the Jost elbow

Of course he does.

The NHL needs to pulls its head out of its ass. When a guy deliberately elbows a guy and breaks his face, even if it got missed during the game, it HAS to be a suspension. Any hit to the head that results in an injury should be treated very seriously. Its the same stupid reasoning the DOPS gave for not suspending Stone. Guys aren't going to think twice about these hits until the league's practices change.

This is the instance where the DOPS is actually correct to penalize the outcome rather than the intent. If they want to get concussions out of the game, they remove these hits. I'd feel the same way if the jerseys were the other way around. (Gotta love the main board narrative about the big mean Blues, when it was Colorado who knocked two players out with head shots.)

Is a broken orbital career ending? The last time this happened that I can remember is Joe Vitale and he needed to quit the game

I would think it would heal. At most, the player would need to wear a cage or something. I don't know the story about Joe Vitale. Pretty sure we've seen plenty of basketball players return from this.

No, it's not career ending. It's another broken bone that needs time to heal. Jost will have to answer the bell the first game the Blues and Avs meet because Bortuzzo won't let this slide.

 

[JoshFromMO]

I would think it would heal. At most, the player would need to wear a cage or something. I don't know the story about Joe Vitale. Pretty sure we've seen plenty of basketball players return from this.

He broke it in a fight with Kevan Miller but there might have been some additional damage to his eye cause he had the dark room treatment for at least a year afterwards

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Is a broken orbital career ending? The last time this happened that I can remember is Joe Vitale and he needed to quit the game

Vitale was forced to retire due to post concussion syndrome, not a broken orbital socket.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Dunn had a concussion. Yeah, I don't blame him a bit for sitting out.

 

[mk80]

Dunn had a concussion. Yeah, I don't blame him a bit for sitting out.

Who reported that? I'm not seeing it on Twitter?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Who reported that? I'm not seeing it on Twitter?

Lou Korac.

"The guy was concussed and didn't feel 100 percent ready. There are other underlying things there I won't get into but concussions are different for everyone. #stlblues"

 

[mk80]

Lou Korac.

"The guy was concussed and didn't feel 100 percent ready. There are other underlying things there I won't get into but concussions are different for everyone. #stlblues"

Thanks.

It makes sense then why he felt good enough to skate but not to play in the games. Concussions are always so tricky.

 

[Meatball]

As a whole, we need about 2 or 3 top 6 forwards, #1 LD, #3 RD as far as I see it. We need to get younger, faster, and back to a speedier variant of the relentless, hard-checking game that won us the cup.

Upgrade - ROR - Perron
Upgrade - Schenn/Bozak/Upgrade - Tarasenko
Kostin-Thomas-Kyrou
Bozak/Clifford/Mac/Joshua/DLR/Barby/Sunny for your 4th line

LD Upgrade - Parayko
Mikkola-Faulk
Dunn-Bort/Upgrade

Binnington
Husso

Goaltending is fine...other than that, we just need guys to heal up and come back strong next season. That said we have quite a few holes to fill.

(Note: I'm exposing Krug and Schenn and hoping Seattle bites)

 

[Beauterham]

As a whole, we need about 2 or 3 top 6 forwards, #1 LD, #3 RD as far as I see it. We need to get younger, faster, and back to a speedier variant of the relentless, hard-checking game that won us the cup.

Upgrade - ROR - Perron
Upgrade - Schenn/Bozak/Upgrade - Tarasenko
Kostin-Thomas-Kyrou
Bozak/Clifford/Mac/Joshua/DLR/Barby/Sunny for your 4th line

LD Upgrade - Parayko
Mikkola-Faulk
Dunn-Bort/Upgrade

Binnington
Husso

Goaltending is fine...other than that, we just need guys to heal up and come back strong next season. That said we have quite a few holes to fill.

(Note: I'm exposing Krug and Schenn and hoping Seattle bites)

Sanford, Scandella and Blais got traded?

To be honest, realisticly I'd still expect us to lose Dunn to Seattle (unless they sign Schwartz). With not resigning Bozak, Gunnarsson, Hoffman and Steen (duh) we'd still battle for a playoff spot if everyone stays healthy. Now that is a BIG if though...

Perron - O'Reilly - Kyrou
Schenn - Thomas - Tarasenko
Sanford - Sundqvist - Kostin
Clifford - Barbashev - Blais
De La Rose/MacEachern

Scandella - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Dunn*/Walman - Bortuzzo
Walman/Mikkola

Binnington
Husso

*in case Seattle signs Schwartz.

Wouldn't mind getting 1/2 middle six forwards and an upgrade on Scandella though, although I don't feel we're in a spot to offer valuable assets (1st/2nd's, blue chippers). Trading Scandella isn't goint to be easy too (if we want to upgrade his position we probably need his capspace, so he needs to go in that case).

PS. I'm not advocating these lines per sé (for example, personally I'd rather move on from Clifford and not pair Krug and Faulk), but they wouldn't surprise me seeing how Berube deployed his lines during the season.

 

[Meatball]

Mikkola and Walman both need to be playing above Scandella...it's simply time. Other than that, I'm hoping against all hope that Krug is headed to Seattle, and at the very least, we upgrade the #1LW, #1LD and #3RD spots.

We have plenty of depth and just need guys to come back healthy (Parayko, Faulk, Bort) or bounce back (Schenn, Tarasenko and...yes, Schwartz).

 

[JoshFromMO]

Idk if Lou is speculating or he knows something but sounds like Hoffman might not return

 

[simon IC]

Idk if Lou is speculating or he knows something but sounds like Hoffman might not return

Not to you, but at Hoffman ...

 

[simon IC]

... Seriously, Mike Hoffman complaining about the way he was handled. Oh, that's not going to change his reputation as a prima donna problem child! Sorry, that really annoyed me. Piss off, Mike Hoffman.

 

[Meatball]

If that's the case, good riddance.

 

[JoshFromMO]

... Seriously, Mike Hoffman complaining about the way he was handled. Oh, that's not going to change his reputation as a prima donna problem child! Sorry, that really annoyed me. Piss off, Mike Hoffman.

It's funny cause it was starting to look like he started to buy in at the end of the playoffs but if it's true he's not happy about this then I'd rather have someone who wants to do what's asked of them

 

[simon IC]

After a closer look, the tweet does not actually quote Hoffman as saying that. It's putting words in Hoffman's mouth, so I am going to walk my stance back a bit. It still bothers me, though.

 

[Majorityof1]

After a closer look, the tweet does not actually quote Hoffman as saying that. It's putting words in Hoffman's mouth, so I am going to walk my stance back a bit. It still bothers me, though.

He chose the Blues for well below market and below other offers because Armstrong sold him on the Blues as his best opportunity to shine. While I don't have the exact quote of what Armstrong said to him, post-signing interviews hinted at Armstrong touted our great centers, and PP opportunity with Vlad out. Then the Blues buried him on the PP and gave him limited minutes. Consequently, Hoffman very much squandered an opportunity to increase the value of his next contract, the one that will set him up for the rest of his life. If a GM and coach were not on the same page and it cost me my retirement package, yeah, I'd be very pissed.

 

[simon IC]

He chose the Blues for well below market and below other offers because Armstrong sold him on the Blues as his best opportunity to shine. While I don't have the exact quote of what Armstrong said to him, post-signing interviews hinted at Armstrong touted our great centers, and PP opportunity with Vlad out. Then the Blues buried him on the PP and gave him limited minutes. Consequently, Hoffman very much squandered an opportunity to increase the value of his next contract, the one that will set him up for the rest of his life. If a GM and coach were not on the same page and it cost me my retirement package, yeah, I'd be very pissed.

I can always rely on you for an alternate and challenging perspective. Good points, well made.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

He chose the Blues for well below market and below other offers because Armstrong sold him on the Blues as his best opportunity to shine. While I don't have the exact quote of what Armstrong said to him, post-signing interviews hinted at Armstrong touted our great centers, and PP opportunity with Vlad out. Then the Blues buried him on the PP and gave him limited minutes. Consequently, Hoffman very much squandered an opportunity to increase the value of his next contract, the one that will set him up for the rest of his life. If a GM and coach were not on the same page and it cost me my retirement package, yeah, I'd be very pissed.

Need to acknowledge the simultaneous injuries to Blues centers during the early season. That certainly didn’t make it easy to integrate Hoffman. Weren’t they down 3 starting centers for a while?

I actually thought Hoffman showcased reasonably well after the healthy scratch. Not sure any of us had any expectation he’d re-sign in St Louis, but I think he’ll do just fine on his next contract.

 

[Brian39]

I don't see how anyone could have watched the Blues this season and thought there was any chance Hoffman would want to return. He was badly misused all season and only started to be even remotely well-used when the top PP unit was so bad that he outscored the entire rest of our team on the PP over a several week stretch. We brought in an elite PP player and he sat on the 2nd unit for the first 40 games of the season while the team PP sat 23rd in the league. In the 3 weeks before we started leaning on the 2nd unit and then moved Hoffman to the top unit, the PP went 13% and Hoffman was healthy scratched 3 times.

At 5 on 5, he was shuffled throughout the lineup all year. His most frequent 5 on 5 line mate was Thomas with 218 minutes played together. He played 100+ minutes with all of Thomas, Schenn, Kyrou, Blais, Sanford, and Bozak. He inexplicably played less than 100 combined minutes with ROR and Schwartz, who almost undoubtedly are the 2 best line mates on our roster for a defensively unsound volume shooter. I totally understand trying to make the Thomas-Hoffman pair work, but the Schenn-Hoffman pair is probably the worst stylistic pairing on the team since neither likes to carry the puck much.

Hoffman averaged 30 goals and 65 points in the 5 seasons before coming here and is unquestionably a top-end PP player. Berube tried to turn him into a middle 6 forward with 2nd PP unit usage and was seemingly shocked when it didn't work. The on-ice product Hoffman experienced was a middling regular season team that got trounced in the playoffs. If I were in his shoes, I certainly wouldn't look at this situation and think, "this coach is great and the problem was a lack of buy-in from the players." Especially after I watched Zach freaking Sanford get a longer leash than anyone to make fully inexcusable mistakes and still get to play with better line mates than I did.

He didn't complain publicly all season and despite the poor usage he finished 3rd on the team in points, goals and had a positive +/-.

 

[Brian39]

Need to acknowledge the simultaneous injuries to Blues centers during the early season. That certainly didn’t make it easy to integrate Hoffman. Weren’t they down 3 starting centers for a while?

I actually thought Hoffman showcased reasonably well after the healthy scratch. Not sure any of us had any expectation he’d re-sign in St Louis, but I think he’ll do just fine on his next contract.

Yes, we went through long injuries to most of our depth centers.

And incredibly, despite all the injuries and Zach Sanford looking absolutely brutal on the ROR-Perron line, we just didn't ever give Hoffman an extended try on that line. ROR was Hoffman's 9th most frequent line mate at 5 on 5. Hoffman spent less time with ROR than he did with each of Thomas, Schenn, Bozak, and Sunny. 3 of those centers missed 20+ games with a ton of overlap on the missed games. Injries were an opportunity to try Hoffman with ROR, not a hinderance in Berube's ability to do so. The 1LW spot was a rotating door all year between pretty much every winger on the roster besides Hoffman. Sanford, Kyrou, Blais, Schenn, Barby, and Tarasenko all got more time with ROR than Hoffman did this year. Schwartz was only 3 minutes behind Hoffman despite missing 20+ games. Moreover, for some reason Hoffman's minutes with ROR were substantially more defensive oriented than any player who played more than 25 minutes with ROR this season. Hoffman and ROR were on the ice together for a 5 on 5 offensive zone face off 12 times this year.

Berube had full ability to try Hoffman/ROR for an extended period of time and decided not to.

 

[Oberyn]

It's pretty clear that Berube wasn't a fan of Hoffman and instead fixates on players like Bozak/Sanford/Barbashev. The top teams in the league have all gravitated towards speed and skill, and it was painfully evident that the Blues sorely lack this in their lineup during the series against the Avs. Gone are the days where a tough, bruising lineup can muscle their way to the top. The Blues spent half the series chasing the Avs with hits and completely blowing their defensive positioning to make a useless check. I don't remember the exact numbers but the Blues severely outhit the Avs and what did that gain us? We held a lead for like 7 minutes in the entire series while the Avs ran circles around us with quick puck movement and speedy forecheck. The Blues racked up so many hits because they barely had the puck.

In my opinion, the Blues need to adopt a playstyle that focuses on quick transitions and puck movement. I lost track of how many times the Blues D would just rim the puck around the boards or flip the puck out of the zone instead of making a pass. Not to mention all the stretch passes that get picked off cause our forwards just fly the zone and don't offer any support in the defensive zone. It's a pathetic system and will never work against the Avs/Knights/Lightning. Parayko is probably the most guilty of doing this, his go to move is flipping the puck to the opposing team because he can't make a pass under heavy pressure. Watching how the Avs enter the zone versus the Blues was eye opening. The Blues dump and chase yet never come out with the puck. When they try to carry the puck in, the Avs D are able to disrupt them with great stick positioning. It's disheartening to watch.

Players like Hoffman are what the Blues should be looking to add not subtract. I'm sick of stacking this team with gritty two way players that "play the game the right way". I like Sundqvist but you're kidding yourself if you think he would have made any real difference in this series. Why? Cause he's slow and being slow against the Avs is a complete detriment. I would even argue that Barbashev is better than Sundqvist and Barbashev was a nonfactor for most of the series. It can't be just me that saw Blues players constantly get outraced to pucks simply because they're just slower. It's hilarious how our big guys are just so slow, yet I watch the Knights and their big guys can somehow skate like the wind.

I would honestly move on from Berube and look for a coach that can implement a system that can actually go toe-to-toe with the top teams in the league. It's pretty obvious that Berube still believes in a hard forecheck, wearing down the opposition, and dump and chase tactics. Someone needs to tell Berube that you can have an effective forecheck without having to throw a hit. The Avs made it hell for our D to move the puck out and they did it with minimal physicality. I'm glad we won the Cup two years ago with this playstyle because that was likely the last year a team with this type of playstyle will win the Cup. The Kings are no longer the big bad bullies, they've injected their lineup with a ton of speed and it was on display in the games we played against them. They were fast as hell and will probably start ascending back to the top as they slowly inject their lineup with their youth.

If your team isn't fast, then you have to move the puck fast. The Blues can't do either and unless that changes quick, they're basically securing a one way ticket to the bottom of the league.