Red Sox/MLB 2019 Playoffs V - Lowell Spinners would lose Red Sox connection under radical MLB plan

[CDJ]

I wouldn’t call surgery for sale inevitable, but The way this process is shaking out we definitely can’t take it off the table

 

[chizzler]

I would call surgery for sale inevitable, while your at it, Price prob needs it too. Both have miles on those arms.

 

[LSCII]

What the **** was Dave Roberts thinking?

Dave Roberts isn't making those calls. The analytics department is and it's everything that's wrong with baseball.

 

[McGarnagle]

Dave Roberts isn't making those calls. The analytics department is and it's everything that's wrong with baseball.

What?

The whole issue with last night is that Dave Roberts went against all the analytics when it mattered and it backfired on him. He left Kershaw in against Rendon and Soto when he shouldn't have, and he left Kelly in an extra inning because "he was throwing the ball good" or some kind of old manager jargon. If he actually followed the analytics, he would've won that game in regulation.

 

[LSCII]

What?

The whole issue with last night is that Dave Roberts went against all the analytics when it mattered and it backfired on him. He left Kershaw in against Rendon and Soto when he shouldn't have, and he left Kelly in an extra inning because "he was throwing the ball good" or some kind of old manager jargon. If he actually followed the analytics, he would've won that game in regulation.

Don't know what to tell you, but the rumors are he's not making the calls, only carrying them out and doing what the math nerds are telling him to do.

From the World Series last year, this is an article about how they're coming to decisions in LA.

Column: At two critical moments, analytics failed the Dodgers. Now they face an 0-2 World Series deficit

Heavily shaded towards analytics. An army of stat crunching nerds. Meeting with Roberts to tell him what to do in what scenario during the games. That doesn't sound like Roberts is making many calls on his own if at all.

 

[McGarnagle]

I can't imagine any respectable math nerd advising a manager to let Joe Kelly pitch to Rendon and Kendrick in the 10th inning. Also, walking Soto to load instead the bases of bringing in Kolarek against the leftie was also subtly bad, though I understand the temptation to set up the force out at home.

 

[EverettMike]

Dave Roberts isn't making those calls. The analytics department is and it's everything that's wrong with baseball.

The decisions Roberts made are the total f***ing opposite of what analytics would say to do.

 

[EverettMike]

It's kind of amazing you chose this example to bash analytics (which have been a major force in the Sox winning 4 World Series) when it was the perfect example of ignoring analytics.

 

[LSCII]

The decisions Roberts made are the total ****ing opposite of what analytics would say to do.

Yet it's well documented that Roberts doesn't really make any calls on his own, so which is it?

You're an advanced stats guy. Is Friedman a stat junky or an old school baseball guy? Is his staff full of old school scouts or analytics wizards?

It's really that simple, Mike. You stats guys can't have it both f***ing ways. When it works you all sit around talking about how great it is, but when it fails we get bs like the manager did some shit on his own? Nah. Not buying it. The advanced stats geeks have perpetually f***ed the Dodgers 3 years running. Roberts isn't making any calls on his own. Own it. Just own it.

 

[LSCII]

It's kind of amazing you chose this example to bash analytics (which have been a major force in the Sox winning 4 World Series) when it was the perfect example of ignoring analytics.

I'm not choosing any moment. I'm simply pointing out that you don't get to take credit when it works and blame old school managers when it doesn't. The Dodgers are the literal face of analytics. The front office is rife with stat crunchers. It's blown up in their face 3 post seasons in a row. But all we get now is that Roberts f***ed up?

Pathetic.

 

[LSCII]

I can't imagine any respectable math nerd advising a manager to let Joe Kelly pitch to Rendon and Kendrick in the 10th inning. Also, walking Soto to load instead the bases of bringing in Kolarek against the leftie was also subtly bad, though I understand the temptation to set up the force out at home.

Roberts quoted below on why Kelly was left in there. Reading between the lines, and it sure doesn't sound like he was behind it. "Only threw 10 pitches", "ball was coming out well", "Kenley take down the other part of the order", "always going to be second guessing, I'll take the brunt"

What old school baseball guy gives a shit about setting up his best RP and closer to face the weakest part of the f***ing order? It makes literally no sense. That's a move some clown measuring spin rotations and exit velocities came up with. If you're a baseball guy, you want your best against their best. You don't say f*** it and let their top players face a sub par guy with your best guy on the pine. It's absurd to even suggest it.

“You’re looking at obviously a tie ball game, and Kelly goes in there, throws 10 pitches, and he’s throwing the baseball really well,” Roberts said, via The Orange County Register. “I liked Joe right there in that spot. I really did. After 10 pitches there was no stress. Ball coming out well. So for him to go out there and take down that inning and to have Kenley (Jansen) take down the other part of the order, I felt really good about it. “If the blame falls on me, I’ve got no problem with it,” Roberts later said. “I feel that my job is to put guys in the best position to have success and if it doesn’t work out, there’s always going to be second-guessing, and I got no problem wearing the brunt of that. That’s okay.”

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Polar Park project: Worcester Planning Board approves site plan; Residential units will be similar to 145 Front
Officials at ‘critical point’ in McCoy analysis
@Fenway Do you think the redsox are still planing on pulling out of Lowell if a atlantic league team goes to mccoy.

 

[EverettMike]

Lonnie, I never know when you're actually trolling or not, but saying, "Dave Roberts ignored what every single analytics guy in the world would have done" doesn't prove analytics is wrong. All it does is prove Dave Roberts ignored them. Now just because you've "heard" Roberts doesn't make any decision on his own doesn't make it true, and it certainly doesn't make it true last night.

I don't know what the f*** you are actually arguing (or if it is in good faith), but Dave Roberts f***ed up last night by doing the opposite of what the "stats guys" would have wanted the manager to do. Who is trying to have it both ways exactly? You. You are saying analytics don't work......when they weren't used.

 

[EverettMike]

Molly Knight, who wrote an entire book about the Dodgers organization, wrote this in her piece about last night:

"There’s a huge misconception that Dave Roberts is some sort of analytics puppet. But his late-inning playoff blunders have nothing to do with analytics. They’re all gut. Which is terrifying."

No, Dodger fans — you did not deserve to have the season...

 

[EverettMike]

Jess Passan at ESPN in response to Roberts' rational:

"This is a lot to digest. Much of it doesn't make sense. Kershaw's home run rate spiked to a career worst this year. Rendon, both this year and historically, hits left-handed pitchers better than right-handers. The idea of liking Kershaw against Soto with a two-run lead is fine. The Dodgers did not have a two-run lead by the time Soto batted. They had a one-run lead -- and a left-hander in Kolarek who had struck out Soto twice in the series and induced a ground ball in their other matchup."

Later in the piece:

"Sometimes a bad result can be stomached if the process was sound. The process here was not sound, and when Kendrick hammered a ball over the center-field fence at 9:23 p.m., the deed was done. Then Roberts didn't even go to Jansen with Ryan Zimmerman at the plate, as he suggested he would have done, only calling upon his closer after Yan Gomes singled to right field.
It's impossible to say this entire debacle was preventable. Other pitchers might have blown the lead the same way Kershaw and Kelly did. But the Dodgers are where they are, with a roster built for now and the future, because of rigorous decision-making. The only rigor in Roberts' decisions was of the mortis variety, because it turned the Dodgers' season into a corpse.

What comes next is every bit as interesting as what befell the Dodgers on Wednesday. This is the sort of loss that could complicate Roberts' future with the Dodgers. He did sign a four-year contract extension in December, and in many ways -- from how the players feel about him to how well he represents the organization and brand -- he is an ideal manager for this team and market. No matter how well the Dodgers are set up going forward, though, the notion that a game of this magnitude can be mismanaged in such fashion invites scrutiny."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27810837/dave-roberts-own-dodgers-disaster

 

[LSCII]

Mike, I could go find plenty of articles that refute yours and say the front office had a hand in this very easily. But we both know that.

In reality, the nerds say don't start Kershaw in game 5because his post season numbers suck. But they also say use your starters in the playoffs to augment your bullpen. So where was Roberts wrong? He didn't start Kershaw, but he got in the game and blew it late. Which is better? Letting the guy melt down in the first 2 innings or in the 8th with a lead?

It's why I'm saying the analytics crowd can't have it both ways. You don't only get credit for the wins. You get it for the losses too. In this case, regardless of how you want to position it, Roberts followed some form of advanced stats.

 

[LSCII]

And I'm still waiting to hear justification on why a non analytics manager would leave his best RP on the bench against the heart of the order, with the season hanging in the balance. Roberts is an analytics guy. He agrees with them and they discuss strategy on how to approach every situation. To suddenly say it was all his gut after it fails? That's a little far fetched for anyone with logic to believe.

 

[yazmybaby]

The decisions Roberts made are the total ****ing opposite of what analytics would say to do.

What another classic CHOKE by the Dodgers.
Roberts needs to be fired, he has no clue how to manage in big games.
Kershaw should have left after he got Eaton out, then go to Maeda.
You manage each AB when you have a lead like that. You pay Jansen 18 milllion this year to close games and he only pitches 1.2 innings in the post season?
Kershaw is 9-11 with a 4.43 ERA in post season and has given up 24 HR's in 158 IP's which is terrible.
Their big hitters did absolutely nothing again! Bellinger and Seager were 7-39 with no HR's and 3 RBI's.
Lets talk to them at the Winter Meetings and trade them Betts, sucker them into overpaying now, they are vulnerable.
We will take Verdugo/Ruiz and Dustin May.

 

[McGarnagle]

And I'm still waiting to hear justification on why a non analytics manager would leave his best RP on the bench against the heart of the order, with the season hanging in the balance. Roberts is an analytics guy. He agrees with them and they discuss strategy on how to approach every situation. To suddenly say it was all his gut after it fails? That's a little far fetched for anyone with logic to believe.

I don't understand what you're arguing. Are you trying to suggest that Roberts's decisions last night were informed by the analytics department, despite the fact that they were emblematic of old school regressive gut feeling type moves?

What stands more to reason to you? That the computer nerds would all of a sudden sign down something to the manager that goes against everything they've done all year, or the manager himself ignoring the suggestions and following his natural human tendency to doubt himself at the biggest moment of the year?

 

[LSCII]

I don't understand what you're arguing. Are you trying to suggest that Roberts's decisions last night were informed by the analytics department, despite the fact that they were emblematic of old school regressive gut feeling type moves?

What stands more to reason to you? That the computer nerds would all of a sudden sign down something to the manager that goes against everything they've done all year, or the manager himself ignoring the suggestions and following his natural human tendency to doubt himself at the biggest moment of the year?

What I'm arguing is that every move that goes wrong for the Dodgers is hung at Robert's feet as a "gut decision" but every time they win, it's a celebration by the analytics crowd. It's hypocritical and nonsensical to even suggest it. But that's what happens.

It's well known that the Dodgers operate this way. Nobody can even argue they're a big believer in advanced stats. I mean shit, last year vs the Brewers in the NLCS, the Brewers "started" Wade Miley for a batter because the Dodgers benched most of their left handed power bats since the numbers said to. Did it make sense to leave several of your best hitters on the bench in favor of lesser players? Not to me, but that's what they did. Because the nerds said so. Even after Miley exited early. And that example isn't an issue only because they won the game. If they had lost though, I'm sure it would have been all Roberts gut. He did that shit against the Sox too. Even when they were down and their right handed bats weren't doing anything at the plate.

The main point is that you can't have it both ways.

 

[LSCII]

And again, they don't sign down stuff. They meet before the game to discuss what to do in every scenario. So to suggest this was all Dave Roberts gut and going away from their vaunted stats is absurd. Robert's is a stats guy, not an old school manager.

 

[McGarnagle]

That's just the way coaches are treated in every sport. They're always blamed when the team loses, but someone else (players or front office) gets all the credit when they win.

 

[EverettMike]

Molly Knight, who wrote an entire book about the Dodgers organization, wrote this in her piece about last night:

"There’s a huge misconception that Dave Roberts is some sort of analytics puppet. But his late-inning playoff blunders have nothing to do with analytics. They’re all gut. Which is terrifying."

No, Dodger fans — you did not deserve to have the season...

Just gonna re-up this.

 

[Seidenbergy]

And again, they don't sign down stuff. They meet before the game to discuss what to do in every scenario. So to suggest this was all Dave Roberts gut and going away from their vaunted stats is absurd. Robert's is a stats guy, not an old school manager.

So you won't even entertain the possibility that, after two years of the "stats" failing them in the post-season, he maybe.............possibly.......decided to try something else once? Maybe? Possibly?

To say "no, that's not possible" like you are doing now is what is absurd.

But I'm beginning to think you, as Mike suggested, are just trolling now. His silence after pulling multiple concrete supporting articles confirms it. He's done wasting his time. Nothing anyone writes here is going to change your mind if in fact you are not trolling, or stop this train if you are. Like dealing with Snots from XMas Vacation, once you've got a hold of that leg, it's best to just let you finish.

 

[EverettMike]

Lonnie does do his best trolling in this thread.