2019 Entry Draft Thread Part X

[le_sean]

Lol have you missed Panarin and Tarasenko?

Torts literally called Panarin a top 3 player in the NHL just two days ago.

Notice Chicago has won with Niemi, STL is doing it with Binnington and Dallas with Bishop?

No I didn’t miss them, those teams built strong defences. Denying that is ridiculous.

Great goalie examples. We should trade Price for Curtis McElhinney.

 

[le_sean]

Chicago has 3 cups to show for their years of being led by top forwards. That's a terrible example. Chicago is having a hangover from one hell of a party. I'd just like to have that party for once.

Go on their board and ask them if they would have won their Cups without Keith and Seabrook. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

Gasp. Maybe they were just a well balanced team.

 

[Mrb1p]

I am not advocating Seider over Hughes or Kakko. Who do you think will be there at 15 that will be the surefire gamebreaking talent of your dreams?

Newhook, Dorofeyev, Heinola is a good start. This team needs talent. Thats the hardest thing to acquire and it will only get harder with Seattle.

 

[De Montreal]

It seems like there is more red flags in the LHD side (Heinola, Broberg, York) than on the RHD one (Soderstrom, Seider). Is that right?

 

[Mrb1p]

No I didn’t miss them, those teams built strong defences. Denying that is ridiculous.

Great goalie examples. We should trade Price for Curtis McElhinney.

How about we build around a forward, like every single cup winning team has done since its creation? Were the only stupid team that tries to win with Price, Subban and peashooters.


This team hasnt had a gamebreaking forward since Guy Lafleur. Its due.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Go on their board and ask them if they would have won their Cups without Keith and Seabrook. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

I'm not advocating to build the cheapest defence possible, so I don't know why you would ask me to do this. I am however saying that teams with top forwards, teams that are build from the front back, win cups. Chicago is nothing if not an example of this.

Shall I ask Chicago fans if they think they would have 3 cups without Toews, Kane, Hossa and Panarin? Because those are 4 forwards who are better than anything we've had in decades.

 

[Mrb1p]

It seems like there is more red flags in the LHD side (Heinola, Broberg, York) than on the RHD one (Soderstrom, Seider). Is that right?

No. There is zero red flag with Heinola.

There is a lot more red flags with Soderstrom who isnt able to impose his will on other teams and with Seider who is a physical beast but hasnt shown much on account of playing in a random league.


You know what has even less red flags early in the draft? Forwards.

 

[Vachon23]

I'm not advocating to build the cheapest defence possible, so I don't know why you would ask me to do this. I am however saying that teams with top forwards, teams that are build from the front back, win cups. Chicago is nothing if not an example of this.

Shall I ask Chicago fans if they think they would have 3 cups without Toews, Kane, Hossa and Panarin? Because those are 4 forwards who are better than anything we've had in decades.

Panarin never won a Cup with the Hawks

 

[NotProkofievian]

Panarin never won a Cup with the Hawks

Correct. He joined the year after they won their last. Oopsiedoodles.

 

[Frozenice]

I'm not advocating to build the cheapest defence possible, so I don't know why you would ask me to do this. I am however saying that teams with top forwards, teams that are build from the front back, win cups. Chicago is nothing if not an example of this.

Shall I ask Chicago fans if they think they would have 3 cups without Toews, Kane, Hossa and Panarin? Because those are 4 forwards who are better than anything we've had in decades.

Building from the net out isn’t advocating just drafting d men all the time.

Look at Chicago they had good d men and then they went after Toews and Kane. If they didn’t have a solid d core the Cup winning years would of been disenfranchising years instead. Building from the net out is a direction that the rebuild takes, rather then a static and unflexible philosophy of life. It’s a progression, a being ready for top forwards to come in and take the team forward.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Building from the net out isn’t advocating just drafting d men all the time.

Look at Chicago they had good d men and then they went after Toews and Kane. If they didn’t have a solid d core the Cup winning years would of been disenfranchising years instead. Building from the net out is a direction that the rebuild takes, rather then a static and unflexible philosophy of life. It’s a progression, a being ready for top forwards to come in and take the team forward.

Yeah, the only problem is that top forwards don't just...come in. If they did, and goalies and dmen were impossible to get I would advocate for the build from the net out strategy. But the exact opposite is true. Chicago got their multiple norris winner Duncan Keith in the 2nd round. They got Hjalmarsson in the 4th. Crawford was a 2nd round pick. It was Kane and Toews who were the top draft picks and now hold the 10.5 million dollar contracts. They are how the hawks were ''built,'' not from the ''net out.'''

''Building from the net out'' is an aphorism taken to mean that you should invest a lot in your defence and goaltending positions, possibly at the expense of your forward position. It means first getting the best goalie possible, then the best dmen possible, then we'll worry about the forwards. Otherwise you're just saying ''I would like good goaltending and defence too.'' Well, okay, but that's not particularly meaningful.

 

[Frozenice]

Yeah, the only problem is that top forwards don't just...come in. If they did, and goalies and dmen were impossible to get I would advocate for the build from the net out strategy. But the exact opposite is true. Chicago got their multiple norris winner Duncan Keith in the 2nd round. They got Hjalmarsson in the 4th. Crawford was a 2nd round pick. It was Kane and Toews who were the top draft picks and now hold the 10.5 million dollar contracts. They are how the hawks were ''built,'' not from the ''net out.'''

''Building from the net out'' is an aphorism taken to mean that you should invest a lot in your defence and goaltending positions, possibly at the expense of your forward position. It means first getting the best goalie possible, then the best dmen possible, then we'll worry about the forwards. Otherwise you're just saying ''I would like good goaltending and defence too.'' Well, okay, but that's not particularly meaningful.

The emphasis should be drafting d men and goalies first at the start of a rebuild because they have a longer development curve.

A player like Kane or Rick Nash is halfway through their productive years before a lot of goalies are ready to be a #1 guy.

Plus, look at our situation, we’re not going to have the most skilled, elite forwards in our division without completely tanking and being lottery lucky for a couple of years.

If we draft a forward with the #15 pick this year what are the odds he’s better then Mathews or Tavares in the next 5 years? Almost zilch. But, we can have a better d core and 2 way forwards then they have, it’s almost a necessity for us to field a competitive team.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The emphasis should be drafting d men and goalies first at the start of a rebuild because they have a longer development curve.

A player like Kane or Rick Nash is halfway through their productive years before a lot of goalies are ready to be a #1 guy.

Plus, look at our situation, we’re not going to have the most skilled, elite forwards in our division without completely tanking and being lottery lucky for a couple of years.

If we draft a forward with the #15 pick this year what are the odds he’s better then Mathews or Tavares in the next 5 years? Almost zilch. But, we can have a better d core and 2 way forwards then they have, it’s almost a necessity for us to field a competitive team.

The emphasis should be drafting forwards first because elite forwards are the most difficult pieces to acquire, and statistically speaking, there are fewer of them available later in the draft than competent dmen and goalies. Moreover, you don't even have to draft goalies necessarily. Competent goaltending is available for pennies on the trade and UFA market.

What problem would you rather have as a GM? You have elite forwards, okay dmen, but you need a starting goaltender; or, you have an amazing goaltender, okay dmen, but you need elite forwards.

 

[phillytennis]

It seems like there is more red flags in the LHD side (Heinola, Broberg, York) than on the RHD one (Soderstrom, Seider). Is that right?

As far as forwards go.... let's hope for Caufield or Newhook....as for defensemen....I want Broberg, Seider or Harley.

 

[WeThreeKings]

We have done that already and it has not worked. At one point this team had Price, Subban, Markov, Petry, the top 4 version of Emelin and they didnt win anything. Nashville has been built from the net out and they havent wom anything.

NYI is not built from the net out
CBJ is not built from the net out
SJ is not built from the net out
Avs arent built from the net out.
STL isnt built from the net out.
Dallas isnt built from the net out.
Vegas isnt built from the net out.
TBL isnt built from the net out.
Pittsburgh isnt built from the net out.
Washington isnt built from the net out.
LA wasnt built from the net out.
Chicago isnt built from the net out.

You got the jist?

How isn't CBJ built from the net out with Bob Jones Werenski and Savard?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Fwiw my philosophy is build from talent out. So acquire as much high level talent as possible and get pieces to fit around that talent.

Don't start picking up complimentary pieces unless you've got something to compliment.

You also need an identity. Like if you have Carey Price then the identity should be to build an attacking team around that because you shouldn't need to spend as much in your defensive game.

However if your goalie is Mrazek, you might wanna spend more on a sound defense.

 

[Mrb1p]

How isn't CBJ built from the net out with Bob Jones Werenski and Savard?

Because look at their forward core.

Them drafting Johansen brought them the opportunity to fleece Poile. They clearly built from the forward position onwards, and its been like that since Nash and Carter.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Because look at their forward core.

Them drafting Johansen brought them the opportunity to fleece Poile. They clearly built from the forward position onwards, and its been like that since Nash and Carter.

I think their defence and goaltending is better than their forward group.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Every team that has won the cup has had good forwards and defensemen with a hot goalie at the right time. We need to get good players at any position.

As examples:
Hawks had Kane, Toews, Sharp + Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson
LA had Kopitar, Carter, Brown + Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov

 

[NotProkofievian]

One day, Montreal will have a 100pt forward again, and it will be a liberating experience for many people. It must be such a weight to carry pretending that Carey Price is in any way comparable to the Crosbys of the world.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think their defence and goaltending is better than their forward group.

They have the 2nd deepest and most talented forward group.

 

[Mrb1p]

Every team that has won the cup has had good forwards and defensemen with a hot goalie at the right time. We need to get good players at any position.

As examples:
Hawks had Kane, Toews, Sharp + Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson
LA had Kopitar, Carter, Brown + Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov

This is true, but look at the list of forward and Ds and compare how they were acquired.

Ds should be drafted in the 2nd round and out, not any earlier.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

This is true, but look at the list of forward and Ds and compare how they were acquired.

Ds should be drafted in the 2nd round and out, not any earlier.

I mean I'd tend to go forwards early as well. Starting in the mid 1st though we start getting good defensemen, especially in recent years.

 

[ginomini]

Back to the draft, the more I watch Heinola the more I like him.

You rarely see a young player being so patient and confident in a men's league. He is such a stellar passer and has an intelligent shot. There are no other players with that type of mind potentially available at 15.

Imagine a spread out umbrella on the PP (a bit like Avs play with Rantanen and MacKinnon far away on the boards) with Suzuki-Heinola-Kotkaniemi.

Plus we already have a guy like Peohling who has proven to be a good netfront player.

 

[Mrb1p]

Back to the draft, the more I watch Heinola the more I like him.

You rarely see a young player being so patient and confident in a men's league. He is such a stellar passer and has an intelligent shot. There are no other players with that type of mind potentially available at 15.

Imagine a spread out umbrella on the PP (a bit like Avs play with Rantanen and MacKinnon far away on the boards) with Suzuki-Heinola-Kotkaniemi.

Plus we already have a guy like Peohling who has proven to be a good netfront player.

Amen.

Kotkaniemi and weber on each side could be crazy.