Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 9

[Pinkfloyd]

We could get Taylor hall and he would probably still play musical chairs with Marleau

Nah. Taylor Hall is treated like a superstar in this league. We would just be reducing the musical chairs spots from two spots to just one and the same guys would be playing that game with that spot between Labanc, Marleau, and Goodrow for the most part.

 

[hockfan1991]

Not important or real but Eklund has the sharks listed as 20% likely to be Ristolainens landing spot, pretty much makes zero sense but he claims it. HockeyBuzz.com - NHL Rumors

EDIT: It started showing Hall at the top instead of Ristolainen right after I checked

I love how the beginning say not important or real but.....

LOL f***ing Eklund

 

[hockfan1991]

That's what Simek is for.

simek is like 5 8” 190

size is not his strength I love his edge and grit but size is not a strength of his

his list size is very generous he may be 5 11 with skates on

Either way much smaller then Dillion

 

[Pinkfloyd]

simek is like 5 8” 190

size is not his strength I love his edge and grit but size is not a strength of his

his list size is very generous he may be 5 11 with skates on

Either way much smaller then Dillion

It doesn't matter that he's four inches smaller and 15 pounds lighter. He throws his weight around and hits people and has the grit we're talking about here. Difference is that Simek is better and more consistent defensively.

 

[Gecklund]

simek is like 5 8” 190

size is not his strength I love his edge and grit but size is not a strength of his

his list size is very generous he may be 5 11 with skates on

Either way much smaller then Dillion

Why does size matter? Does he play with an edge?

 

[Kegsey]

It doesn't matter that he's four inches smaller and 15 pounds lighter. He throws his weight around and hits people and has the grit we're talking about here. Difference is that Simek is better and more consistent defensively.

And offensively.

 

[jarr92]

Why does size matter? Does he play with an edge?

When the opponent is Ryan Reaves trying to injure players on the team, having a heavyweight matters.

 

[Pavelski2112]

When the opponent is Ryan Reaves trying to injure players on the team, having a heavyweight matters.

1. Do you really think that deters them?
2. I'd rather my team be able to actually play hockey. As they say, the best way to get revenge is on the scoreboard.

 

[hohosaregood]

1. Do you really think that deters them?
2. I'd rather my team be able to actually play hockey. As they say, the best way to get revenge is on the scoreboard.

Agreed and it worked for us last game against Vegas. I always thought of toughness as being able to take a hit and keep going and less about dishing out hits. Clowe-era Sharks were really good about taking the hit and winning the board battles. In recent years, that hasn't been there as much. This team has been a little soft and has let the opposing team get under their skins way too easily but the last Vegas game was really promising in that regard.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

1. Do you really think that deters them?
2. I'd rather my team be able to actually play hockey. As they say, the best way to get revenge is on the scoreboard.

I hear the “does that deter them” argument whenever #grit is discussed - and I’m not so sure that’s a sound framing of all factors. I suspect that it less about deterring and more about being able to match physical play at something close to parity. If the opposition is consistently imposing their physical will on your team and you don’t have enough guys that can effectively push back, I suspect it’s a morale drag. And while I totally get the argument that hockey skill should be the ultimate determining factor for which players should play - in the context of Dillon, it’s not like there is a clear cut case for any of his potential replacements being better hockey players (Heed, Prout, and the AHL contingent haven’t shown they are better)

 

[Pavelski2112]

I hear the “does that deter them” argument whenever #grit is discussed - and I’m not so sure that’s a sound framing of all factors. I suspect that it less about deterring and more about being able to match physical play at something close to parity. If the opposition is consistently imposing their physical will on your team and you don’t have enough guys that can effectively push back, I suspect it’s a morale drag. And while I totally get the argument that hockey skill should be the ultimate determining factor for which players should play - in the context of Dillon, it’s not like there is a clear cut case for any of his potential replacements being better hockey players (Heed, Prout, and the AHL contingent haven’t shown they are better)

Physical play, I can agree with. Being able to give and take hits are absolutely important, so we're ultimately in agreement there. I'm not even talking about Brendan Dillon - Dillon is a solid defenseman and I also agree that trading him would probably be a bad idea unless the right deal comes around.

It's just that abstract ideas of "grit" and "physicality" oftentimes get us guys like Michael Haley and Dalton Prout, rather than Brendan Dillon.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Physical play, I can agree with. Being able to give and take hits are absolutely important, so we're ultimately in agreement there. I'm not even talking about Brendan Dillon - Dillon is a solid defenseman and I also agree that trading him would probably be a bad idea unless the right deal comes around.

It's just that abstract ideas of "grit" and "physicality" oftentimes get us guys like Michael Haley and Dalton Prout, rather than Brendan Dillon.

Two things:

1. Seems to me that league-wide, and also for the Sharks, “oftentimes” is less and less Michael Haleys and John Scotts. Perhaps that archetype is not completely extinct in the NHL, they are certainly endangered species.
2. I haven’t fully formed an opinion on Prout. If he could manage to stay healthy, he has looked to potentially be a serviceable, if unspectacular, third pairing, crease-clearing, compliment to Ferraro. Time could prove me wrong, but I’m not ready to lump him in with the Michael Haleys quite yet.

But, all in all, it seems you and I are much in agreement.

 

[one2gamble]

When the opponent is Ryan Reaves trying to injure players on the team, having a heavyweight matters.

It only matters if he's willing to throw a high elbow at Reeves or one of their star players and take the suspension. Outside of that it does nothing

 

[CHIshark]

We just finished a really nice November. I'm for staying patient and letting the youngsters continue to develop. It's certain that we'll get at least 1 pickup by the trade deadline - a Wilson requirement.

On paper, we don't match up well without Dillon against Vegas or St Louis. Also, Dillon plays his worst hockey in the playoffs. Bad giveaways, delay of game penalties, missed assignments. Maybe he cleans it up this year. But without him, since we're not a speed team, Vegas and STL will take penalties and play a 'heavy' game. We'd likely lose Hertl/Simek/Kane for the series with injury.

With or without Hall, there is no way we win SC without 2 or 3 rookies playing awesome. I'd say Gambrell and Gregor are trending well. It's also nice to see Goodrow getting some top 6 time and not looking overwhelmed. That's going to be the difference.

 

[jarr92]

1. Do you really think that deters them?
2. I'd rather my team be able to actually play hockey. As they say, the best way to get revenge is on the scoreboard.

1. No. Reaves is going to do his thing. I am of the opinion that during a playoff series (not regular season) physicality should be responded to with physicality.
2. I would agree with you if I didn’t watch the St. Louis series last year. It’s hard to win on the scoreboard when half the best players are missing. If the Sharks matched the physicality of the Blues, it may have been a different series. I think taking away Dillon makes that even more of a struggle.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Please go back to conference 1-8 seeding so vegas and stl can punch each-other's faces in and we don't have bring back

Byers - Gaetz - Odgers
Marchment - McSorley

 

[tahoesharksfan]

I’ve been impressed with what Gregor’s been showing, hopefully he sticks!

 

[Patty Ice]

No way Kings trade us anyone for anything less than absurd overpayment.

Just like the Ducks would never trade Teemu Selanne to Sharks? Would you call Friesen and Shields for one of premiere goal scorers of all time an overpayment?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1. No. Reaves is going to do his thing. I am of the opinion that during a playoff series (not regular season) physicality should be responded to with physicality.
2. I would agree with you if I didn’t watch the St. Louis series last year. It’s hard to win on the scoreboard when half the best players are missing. If the Sharks matched the physicality of the Blues, it may have been a different series. I think taking away Dillon makes that even more of a struggle.

Dillon was there and changed nothing. How does removing him make it more of a struggle? He wasn’t good and didn’t respond the way his proponents are expecting his grit to respond to such situations so what’s the point?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Two things:

1. Seems to me that league-wide, and also for the Sharks, “oftentimes” is less and less Michael Haleys and John Scotts. Perhaps that archetype is not completely extinct in the NHL, they are certainly endangered species.
2. I haven’t fully formed an opinion on Prout. If he could manage to stay healthy, he has looked to potentially be a serviceable, if unspectacular, third pairing, crease-clearing, compliment to Ferraro. Time could prove me wrong, but I’m not ready to lump him in with the Michael Haleys quite yet.

But, all in all, it seems you and I are much in agreement.

Prout looked good to me in preseason and the training camp scrimmages that we got to see. I think he's a legit option as a 7th or 8th 3rd pair fill in D-man. He needs some games though to settle in. We really only saw him in regular season games when the whole team was trash. I'd like to see him now that the team has their shit together a little more.

Dillon was there and changed nothing. How does removing him make it more of a struggle? He wasn’t good and didn’t respond the way his proponents are expecting his grit to respond to such situations so what’s the point?

The only reason I don't want to lose Dillon is they need 8 NHL defensemen for the playoffs. If one of the AHL guys is ready then so be it but until we know that, I prefer to let the young forwards marinate in the minors until one of them is ready for a middle 6 or top 6 role. Especially while the team continues to pile up points the way they have been. Easier to plug and play a winger than a defenseman at the end of the season and playoffs. I'm fairly certain one of the young forwards will prove themselves ready by then. Don't know who but there are so many that hopefully the odds workout that at least one is ready.

 

[Gecklund]

Just like the Ducks would never trade Teemu Selanne to Sharks? Would you call Friesen and Shields for one of premiere goal scorers of all time an overpayment?

Why would a trade for a declining player that happened 10 years ago have any bearing on a trade for a player in his prime today?

 

[Patty Ice]

Why would a trade for a declining player that happened 10 years ago have any bearing on a trade for a player in his prime today?

First off its laughable that you think he was declining and second its the notion that intra-divisional teams do not trade unless its an "absurd overpayment" that is simply not the case.

 

[Gecklund]

First off its laughable that you think he was declining and second its the notion that intra-divisional teams do not trade unless its an "absurd overpayment" that is simply not the case.

You’re right about declining thought he was traded later in his career but you made my point still valid (maybe more) because the only example you could think of was 20 years ago.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You’re right about declining thought he was traded later in his career but you made my point still valid (maybe more) because the only example you could think of was 20 years ago.

There were like six of them last year. Sure most of them are of little consequence but it does happen and it's not always with a premium.

 

[Patty Ice]

You’re right about declining thought he was traded later in his career but you made my point still valid (maybe more) because the only example you could think of was 20 years ago.

I only used that example because if one of the greatest goalscorers in NHL history can be traded within the division, Tyler Toffoli can be traded as well.