2019/20 Roster Thread XXXV

[Beef Invictus]

7 out of 8 Metro teams made the extended playoffs. Every team but PK and the Devils. So much for the Summer of Shero.



Braun outscoring Subban in fewer games and without the benefit of PP time is hilarious.

Hughes 21P in 61 games
Subban 18P in 68 games

Kakko 23P in 66 games
Trouba 27P in 70 games

Niskanen 33P in 68 games
Braun 19P in 62 games
Hayes 41P in 69 games

Considering the rumors of Subban dealing with a chronic neck injury mayhaps it's time to consider retiring.

 

[Striiker]

Never agreed that the Devils or Rags were a better team than us this year. Our core is too damn good and our young guys are going to be too damn good too.

When it comes to the offseason D specifically, given what was known at the time, it made sense bet on Subban being the best D available. In all three cases you're betting on a 30+ year old player to bounce back... and his form prior to all of their poor 2018-2019 seasons was the best of the three. The contract was the only issue.

Looking at Subbans results vs Niskanen/Braun this year without looking at the enormous difference in teams (6th best vs 26th, with 43 more goals scored) and usage/partners (Provorov/Sanheim vs Greene) would be quite the foolish way to judge. Flip Subban and Niskanen this year and who knows what happens.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I think I was incredulous that pundits were lauding New Jersey and the Rangers for their offseason moves. Even with hindsight, I still don't understand how either of those teams would have been considered as good or better than the other teams in the Metro... and that's with me being iffy on the Isles this season.

 

[Striiker]

I think I was incredulous that pundits were lauding New Jersey and the Rangers for their offseason moves. Even with hindsight, I still don't understand how either of those teams would have been considered as good or better than the other teams in the Metro... and that's with me being iffy on the Isles this season.

I think the media just throws Hail Marys so they have a small chance to say “Look, I was right!” if it ends up being true... and they just assume people will forget if they’re wrong.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I still think New Jersey did the right thing though. They took some low cost gambles to see if they could improve the team with Hall still there & whether he’d be worthy of an extension.

It didn’t work but they ejected & stock piled some assets to build around Hischier, Hughes, & their top pick this year. They’re probably going to be irrelevant by default these next few years as the rebuild. So we’ll see but it probably was the best course of action.

People trash them getting Subban, but in their position, it was worth the risk IMO. They gave up nothing for him and they don't need to cap space for the rest of his contract. They just have to hope he can rebound so that they can recoup some assets when they decide to trade him

 

[Deadpool8812]

I think I was incredulous that pundits were lauding New Jersey and the Rangers for their offseason moves. Even with hindsight, I still don't understand how either of those teams would have been considered as good or better than the other teams in the Metro... and that's with me being iffy on the Isles this season.

Ah yes... The Rangers have completed the fastest rebuild ever... Even before the season started and all their glaring holes in their line up

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Fun facts, one of the two New Jersey second round picks that they gave up for Subban ended up here used on Bobby Brink.

 

[deadhead]

Never agreed that the Devils or Rags were a better team than us this year. Our core is too damn good and our young guys are going to be too damn good too.

When it comes to the offseason D specifically, given what was known at the time, it made sense bet on Subban being the best D available. In all three cases you're betting on a 30+ year old player to bounce back... and his form prior to all of their poor 2018-2019 seasons was the best of the three. The contract was the only issue.

Looking at Subbans results vs Niskanen/Braun this year without looking at the enormous difference in teams (6th best vs 26th, with 43 more goals scored) and usage/partners (Provorov/Sanheim vs Greene) would be quite the foolish way to judge. Flip Subban and Niskanen this year and who knows what happens.

Subban had serious injury concerns, it wasn't just age.

And no, if you switch Niskanen and Subban, you wouldn't get the same results. Not even close.

 

[TCTC]

People trash them getting Subban, but in their position, it was worth the risk IMO. They gave up nothing for him and they don't need to cap space for the rest of his contract. They just have to hope he can rebound so that they can recoup some assets when they decide to trade him

Yeah, that's the big difference between the Devils trading for him and the Flyers trading for him. The Devils don't have to worry about his contract. On the Flyers he would one of the worst contracts in the league.
That's why I never understood why some people thought it would be worth the risk.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Yeah, that's the big difference between the Devils trading for him and the Flyers trading for him. The Devils don't have to worry about his contract. On the Flyers he would one of the worst contracts in the league.
That's why I never understood why some people thought it would be worth the risk.

Gotta wonder if they use a compliance buyout on him if they come back this offseason. It would cost them $2.67 Million a year for four years vs them paying him $8M for 2.
They also have Schneider wasting $6 million in salary and cap. I would absolutely love to see them do something stupid like buyout both and just use that space on a long term Holtby and Brodie/Barrie.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Subban wasn’t that bad this year. They’re very likely going to stink the next two years anyway. They’re still going to need bodies at worst. So better off to see if he can bounce back & they could trade him for something in the next two years.

Schneider’s obviously a different story on top of having that extra year.

I don’t really see them getting aggressive with outside additions as they’re about to turn over their whole roster. Guys like Palmeri, Zajac, & Gusev are pending UFA’s next year.

 

[CapnZin]

What’s wild in my opinion is that for an irrelevant as a team that NJD is, 33% if their F are 1st round picks and 22% of their F were drafted inside the top 12 picks.
You’d think that a team with that sort of makeup would be on the up much quicker than why they are.

It does kind of stink for them that Hughes was awful last year. Nico Hischier, right now, is a good 2C option, but it just stinks for them none of their players are planning out quickly.

Good for us though.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

What’s wild in my opinion is that for an irrelevant as a team that NJD is, 33% if their F are 1st round picks and 22% of their F were drafted inside the top 12 picks.
You’d think that a team with that sort of makeup would be on the up much quicker than why they are.

It does kind of stink for them that Hughes was awful last year. Nico Hischier, right now, is a good 2C option, but it just stinks for them none of their players are planning out quickly.

Good for us though.

I wouldn’t really say Hughes was awful last year all things considered & I think Hischier’s pretty much closer to a 1C than a 2C at this point.

They took Zacha who’s basically looking a middle of the lineup guy at best in a draft where essentially everybody selected around him has become a higher lineup player. They then took McLeod the year after & he doesn’t really look like he’s going to be much at this point.

It’s not like us who was drafting with two first round picks most years recently where we could mitigate the misses with our high picks.

 

[Curufinwe]

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2016-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-apr-2016/

1	Patrik Laine	LW	Tappara (Fin)	6-4/210	19-Apr-98	46-17-16-33
2	Auston Matthews	C	ZSC Zurich (Sui)	6-1/195	17-Sep-97	36-24-22-46
3	Michael McLeod	C	Mississauga (OHL)	6-2/190	3-Feb-98	57-21-40-61
4	Jesse Puljujarvi	RW	Karpat Oulu (Fin)	6-4/205	7-May-98	50-13-15-28
5	Olli Juolevi	D	London (OHL)	6-2/185	5-May-98	57-9-33-42

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Curufinwe]

Ah yes... The Rangers have completed the fastest rebuild ever... Even before the season started and all their glaring holes in their line up

The Rags playing the Canes and Brady Skej in the play-in will be very interesting.

 

[CapnZin]

I wouldn’t really say Hughes was awful last year all things considered & I think Hischier’s pretty much closer to a 1C than a 2C at this point.

They took Zacha who’s basically looking a middle of the lineup guy at best in a draft where essentially everybody selected around him has become a higher lineup player. They then took McLeod the year after & he doesn’t really look like he’s going to be much at this point.

It’s not like us who was drafting with two first round picks most years recently where we could mitigate the misses with our high picks.

I mean, I guess you’re correct... it’s hard to do much when you’re on a team as good as NJD. Hughes and Hischier can be cut some slack, however, Hischier is a 50 point center which isn’t really a 1C. Maybe with some better players around him he will get more points.
Hughes also wasn’t trending to get past 28 points though for 82 games. Bad is still a useful word to describe that production.

still, it’s crazy how they have 2 first overall picks and 1/3 of their lineup is drafted inside the top 26 picks and their team is in a rebuild mode.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They weren’t really in a full on rebuild mode all those years. They were essentially treading water a lot of those years & happened to have some bad years in there with some lottery luck.

Their established players on their rosters weren’t really that good over the years plus those first rounders weren’t/aren’t as fruitful to this point. They picked #6, #12, #1, #17, & #1 but they never had an additional first rounder on top of that those years. I brought up the Flyers for example as it’s not like we’ve batted a 1.000 with our first rounders either but we’ve often been making two first round selections all those years which mitigates the Patrick, Rubtsov, O’Brien, etc. picks not going the way we’d probably like to this point.

Flyers:
#14 Cam York
#14 Joel Farabee
#19 Jay O’Brien
#2 Nolan Patrick
#27 Morgan Frost
#22 German Rubtsov
#7 Ivan Provorov
#24 Travis Konecny

Devils:
#1 Jack Hughes
#17 Ty Smith
#1 Nico Hischier
#12 Michael McLeod
#6 Pavel Zacha

This past year is probably the first year they truly committed to a full on tear down rebuild. They’ll have their first rounder this year & we’ll see with Arizona/Vancouver. All those picks are more so going to define their future going forward.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hopefully they'll rebuild as well as Buffalo has.

 

[Rebels57]

Subban wasn’t that bad this year. They’re very likely going to stink the next two years anyway. They’re still going to need bodies at worst. So better off to see if he can bounce back & they could trade him for something in the next two years.

Schneider’s obviously a different story on top of having that extra year.

I don’t really see them getting aggressive with outside additions as they’re about to turn over their whole roster. Guys like Palmeri, Zajac, & Gusev are pending UFA’s next year.

He played like a $2-3 million dman rather than $9 million

 

[Striiker]

As we well know, playing with terrible players on a terrible team can have a massive impact on a player. Plus, bad luck.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hughes is one of the best non-McDavid prospects to enter the league in the last decade and seeing his production should say a little something about the talent base in Newark. It's funny, I've been seeing and hearing a lot of Lafreniere >> Hughes talk lately and people are easily dismissing the opinion that Hughes may have been a better prospect at the same age. I was watching a game the other day where they were both on the same ice and it was Jack Hughes and then everyone else. He was playing at a different level. No one was even close to him. They are separated in age by less than 5 months too. Call me crazy but I'd still take Hughes over Lafreniere.

I still think given his age, pedigree, and physical immaturity the kid will be a force in time. Will they be able to surround him with enough talent for it to even matter? They have a long way to go. Potentially having 3 first round picks this year would help though.

 

[deadhead]

Subban just wasn't that good, he wasn't awful, playing with bad players pulled down his raw numbers, but it wasn't like he was a diamond among lumps of coal, either:

Stevenson CFrel +3.10, xGFrel +4.78
Subban CFrel +1.75, xGFrel -0.99
Butcher CFrel +0.51, xGFrel +2.06
Greene CFrel -2.16, xGFrel -1.86
Mueller CFrel -2.08, xGFrel -5.00
Vatanen CFrel -0.27, xGFrel -1.13

PP xGF/60: 5.84, well below Vatanen (8.32), and Stevenson (7.64)
PK xGA/60: 4.38, best among NJ D-men by a sizeable margin

 

[deadhead]

Hughes is one of the best non-McDavid prospects to enter the league in the last decade and seeing his production should say a little something about the talent base in Newark. It's funny, I've been seeing and hearing a lot of Lafreniere >> Hughes talk lately and people are easily dismissing the opinion that Hughes may have been a better prospect at the same age. I was watching a game the other day where they were both on the same ice and it was Jack Hughes and then everyone else. He was playing at a different level. No one was even close to him. They are separated in age by less than 5 months too. Call me crazy but I'd still take Hughes over Lafreniere.

I still think given his age, pedigree, and physical immaturity the kid will be a force in time. Will they be able to surround him with enough talent for it to even matter? They have a long way to go. Potentially having 3 first round picks this year would help though.

I think Hughes shows that size does matter in today's NHL, look at Gaudreau's fall off last season.
As the league continues to get faster, the gap between players with elite speed/quickness and the rest of the league has becomes smaller.
There was a 3-5 year window between the rule changes that opened up the ice, and the adjustment by GMs in moving to more speed, that gave small, quick players an edge that has eroded.

Doesn't mean Hughes won't have a good career, does mean that what an undersized player does in juniors or even college won't translate as well to the NHL.
Just think about all the "slugs" that were still in the NHL five years ago, how many are left?
Now you have checking lines with 2-3 guys with above average speed who are 190-200 lbs who can keep up with small quick players instead of spending the night reading the back of their uniforms.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's not unexpected for a kid with his physical profile to have defensive issues, doubly so with what was iced around him. From a threat generation standpoint, Hughes was basically league average at 5v5, again surrounded by slop.

But more importantly than that, the Devils consistently generated a good amount of threats from in close with him on the ice both at 5v5 and on the PP. The signs of the talent translating are there. It just requires looking into things a bit. And of course further development.

 

[renberg]

Hughes didn't impress me very much with his play. He seemed to be too light in the offensive zone below the dots. He's going to need to spend a lot of time in the weight room to build up his physique if he's going to be more eventually than a mediocre 2C. Its too bad that the press made such a big deal out of him so he had to go right into the NHL after his draft. Probably a couple of years in college hockey in the right program would have done more for him than what happened with him last season.