2018-2019 Training Camp Discussion

[Lame Lambert]

I thought we had zero expectations or care for how this transition year turned out...

We can still complain about it

 

[Isles Drive For 5]

I love all the comments about how Lou and Trotz are incompetent. Some people actually think that Lou is trying to win this year, and that the moves he has made are how he thinks he will make it happen. Lou is well aware that the moves he has made this year will lead us right to the lottery. It is being done purposely, and quite frankly, it is the right thing to do. We need to add more high quality young assets. And quite frankly, I am very glad that they have the guts to do it, as opposed to appeasing those of you who are flipping out over them not making any splashy moves this off-season. If those of you had your way, we’d be a 7-8 seed for a few years, then fall back to being a 10th place team again, because we would have emptied the farm, and be right back to where we are right now. Some of you have to cool off, and recognize that this is all part of the plan. Have a little patience, be willing to suck it up for one more year, and you will be very happy with this franchise over the next 10-15 years.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I "love" Lou's "We have Fritz" quote in response to the roster decision question. You would think he acquired Panarin and was introducing a blockbuster addition to the lineup.

I think he was just saying casually that they like Fritz on the 4th line as opposed to Kuhnhackl, Bellows etc.

Lou created this problem by signing 35 grinders and Sbisa.

 

[SI90]

waived him, just didn't assign him down.

I’m aware of that

 

[SI90]

Re-entry waivers don't exist.

When the hell did they get Rid if that? Could have sworn that was a thing.

 

[Isles Drive For 5]

There are several very good centers available in this upcoming years draft. Getting one of those to pair with barzal would solidify us down the middle. Now suppose we get a few picks for lee, eberle, and nelson (conservatively, lets say 1 first and two seconds). Look at the isles high level prospect pool going forward:

Toews
Sorokin
Ho-sang
Bellows
Dobson
Wahlstrom
Wilde
Aho
Center Isles draft in 19’ lottery
1st rd pick acquired for lee

Im sure im missing a guy of two off the top of my head, but thats a very, very strong system. Now, keeping in mind the concept of having cost controlled assets, the isles will be able to plug in many high level young players at a minimal cap number. That will enable them to throw money at a key FA or two. Then, a few years down the road, they can gonfor the kill by trading future 1st rounders (2022 And 2023 picks) for the key “final pieces”. This plan makes too much sense, sonfor all of you going nuts, sit back, relax, and let our HOF GM and coach execute it.

 

[Lame Lambert]

When the hell did they get Rid if that? Could have sworn that was a thing.

2013

 

[SI90]

2013

Had no idea that changed in the new CBA lol

 

[seafoam]

 

[Lame Lambert]

Jack Capuano is probably salivating over this roster

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I'll drop this in here.

 

[13th Floor]

Jack Capuano is probably salivating over this roster

I'm pretty sure Caps fans said this was Trotz MO as well.

 

[SI90]

Not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I'll drop this in here.

Love that. Lee is the guy I’d most want to keep.

Although I believe with Eberles game and style of play he has a longer shelf life.

If Lee is extended long term I fully expect him to be the Next Captain and I’m totally on board with that.

 

[Duanesutter12]

Cappy just spilt his Yoohoo and soiled himself watching the Matlock marathon down in Florida!

Jack Capuano is probably salivating over this roster

 

[JPIsles21]

So again I ask you (and maybe you can actually answer the question), if Sbisa is so damn awful why has he played 500 NHL games at the same age as Fritz, who is the "type of player every team should want" but has played 34 NHL games. You are the exact kind of poster who likes to throw out that go-to line that NHL management knows more than us, so then I guess NHL managers must be idiots to play an awful dman for 500 games while missing out on a player every team should want for all these seasons. Please explain.

Oh that is your question. First of, I do not think the management knows more than us. I think management, especially our current one has very strict biases about team building that ignores recent data. There is excellent and reproducible data out there that stresses the importance of puck possession. Lou and company have mostly ignored this data.

As far as Sbisa goes. You make the point that he has played 500 games in the NHL. He was drafted in the first round and then traded to Anaheim. He played 227 games there averaging 17+ minutes a game and having a Corsi of 45.9. He then gets traded to Vancouver, playing 199 games, putting up a 45.5 Corsi. Over his career, his relative Corsi % is -4.0. Overall, fairly consistently, his team gets badly outshot when he is on the ice. Not just outshot, but badly outshot. Furthermore, he's never had more than 24 points in a season. For a player that doesn't provide much offense, he has been historically even worse at suppressing shots. The only theory I can offer is that the teams he has been on (Ana, Van) were pretty bad at talent evaluation. Anaheim has since improved, but Vancouver is still bad (see Beagle contract).

As far as Fritz goes, you are severely overreacting. He showed enough last year for me to believe he can be a decent 4th liner. He is better than Filpula, Kuhnackl, and maybe even Clutterbuck. Whether he gets sent down or not is not even that important. He is still a replaceable piece. But that is the point. Lou, for some reason does not see 4th liners as replaceable. He clearly gives them a lot of importance as evidenced by all the ridiculous signings he made. He also didn't even get good 4th liners. Fritz, regardless of his age, seems to be improving each year. The numbers AND the eye test support that. The others are not. They are still awful. So Fritz staying is not a big deal. Sbisa, on the other hand, is blocking a far better player from playing in Toews. That, to me, is disturbing.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Oh that is your question. First of, I do not think the management knows more than us. I think management, especially our current one has very strict biases about team building that ignores recent data. There is excellent and reproducible data out there that stresses the importance of puck possession. Lou and company have mostly ignored this data.

As far as Sbisa goes. You make the point that he has played 500 games in the NHL. He was drafted in the first round and then traded to Anaheim. He played 227 games there averaging 17+ minutes a game and having a Corsi of 45.9. He then gets traded to Vancouver, playing 199 games, putting up a 45.5 Corsi. Over his career, his relative Corsi % is -4.0. Overall, fairly consistently, his team gets badly outshot when he is on the ice. Not just outshot, but badly outshot. Furthermore, he's never had more than 24 points in a season. For a player that doesn't provide much offense, he has been historically even worse at suppressing shots. The only theory I can offer is that the teams he has been on (Ana, Van) were pretty bad at talent evaluation. Anaheim has since improved, but Vancouver is still bad (see Beagle contract).

As far as Fritz goes, you are severely overreacting. He showed enough last year for me to believe he can be a decent 4th liner. He is better than Filpula, Kuhnackl, and maybe even Clutterbuck. Whether he gets sent down or not is not even that important. He is still a replaceable piece. But that is the point. Lou, for some reason does not see 4th liners as replaceable. He clearly gives them a lot of importance as evidenced by all the ridiculous signings he made. He also didn't even get good 4th liners. Fritz, regardless of his age, seems to be improving each year. The numbers AND the eye test support that. The others are not. They are still awful. So Fritz staying is not a big deal. Sbisa, on the other hand, is blocking a far better player from playing in Toews. That, to me, is disturbing.

You are insane. Fritz is not better than Filppula and Clutterbuck (who are both not good either by the way). Filppula and Clutterbuck are coming off awful seasons in which both had more GOALS than Fritz had POINTS. Not to mention Filppula is great on faceoffs and a good penalty killer, while Clutterbuck will probably go back to being a big hitter and draw penalties a lot more again with Martin back to protect him. Fritz brings nothing to the table, literally nothing. For some reason, Lou and Trotz have idiotically decided to elevate the Cizikas line into more of a third line role and use Filppula's line as a fourth line. What should have been done was keep Cizikas as the fourth line and use either Bellows or Ho Sang with Filppula and Komarov to give a third line with more scoring threat that could play 15 minutes a game rather than 11 or 12 with Tanner Fritz. Again, we completely disagree on Fritz, my "eye test" tells me he sucks and brings nothing to the table at all than any other random AHLer would do out there. There was literally nothing that impressed me about him last year and I would be shocked if that has changed.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Then you agree with me that Toews should be in the top 6 (I'd argue top 4 but that's besides the point) over him?

Yeah of course, I'm just not worried they'll keep him down for too long.

 

[YearlyLottery]

You are insane. Fritz is not better than Filppula and Clutterbuck (who are both not good either by the way). Filppula and Clutterbuck are coming off awful seasons in which both had more GOALS than Fritz had POINTS. Not to mention Filppula is great on faceoffs and a good penalty killer, while Clutterbuck will probably go back to being a big hitter and draw penalties a lot more again with Martin back to protect him. Fritz brings nothing to the table, literally nothing. For some reason, Lou and Trotz have idiotically decided to elevate the Cizikas line into more of a third line role and use Filppula's line as a fourth line. What should have been done was keep Cizikas as the fourth line and use either Bellows or Ho Sang with Filppula and Komarov to give a third line with more scoring threat that could play 15 minutes a game rather than 11 or 12 with Tanner Fritz. Again, we completely disagree on Fritz, my "eye test" tells me he sucks and brings nothing to the table at all than any other random AHLer would do out there. There was literally nothing that impressed me about him last year and I would be shocked if that has changed.

If Fritz scores 15 goals this year you gotta make your name "TannerFritzfangirl"

 

[denis5]

I'm pretty sure Caps fans said this was Trotz MO as well.

... as did Nashville fans. Anyone who's seen Trotz's body of work should know he has a hard on for veteran grinders. The thing is, he has a system that actually makes that work. POS players turned into useful pros can be found on all his teams. Jay Beagle, Tom (Barf) Wilson, tons of others. The roster looks ugly on paper, no doubt, and I'm also not happy with some of the roster moves regarding the kids (I'd have Bellows and Towes here, playing regularly, not in Bridgeport) . And while Lou is getting most of the blame for the signings, I have little doubt that many of them were done with Trotz's input as they are his kind of players. That said, Trotz's teams tend to be better than the sum of their parts, so I'm going to hold my ire until I see how this all fits together, and what the team actually looks like after the first 20 games or so.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

As far as Fritz goes, you are severely overreacting. He showed enough last year for me to believe he can be a decent 4th liner. He is better than Filpula, Kuhnackl, and maybe even Clutterbuck. Whether he gets sent down or not is not even that important. He is still a replaceable piece.

If you'd like people to take your posts and thoughts seriously, you'll need to refrain from throwing around statements such as this.

Sbisa, on the other hand, is blocking a far better player from playing in Toews. That, to me, is disturbing.

Sbisa has been signed as a guy who now adds more NHL experience to this line-up than anybody not named Leddy or Boychuk.

That the team is apparently starting the season with him in the line-up while sending the only waiver exempt Dman in the running to the AHL - a guy who is still coming straight off of surgery, missed the last 50 games of last season, and currently has all of 0 games of NHL experience - is hardly a case of "blocking a far better player".

It's the absolutely right and smart thing to do.

We can all be very happy in knowing that when the time is right, Toews will get what will surely be a well-earned spot and can step right into the line-up, perhaps then surpassing others, including Sbisa.

Furthermore, decisions of this nature have been made by contenders and champions for AGES, unlike the past few decades of Islanders hockey where, at times, guys who could simply tie their skates well were gifted a spot in the line-up.

Can't believe any of us feel it necessary to question such things as if we know it all better.

 

[MJF]

If you'd like people to take your posts and thoughts seriously, you'll need to refrain from throwing around statements such as this.



Sbisa has been signed as a guy who now adds more NHL experience to this line-up than anybody not named Leddy or Boychuk.

That the team is apparently starting the season with him in the line-up while sending the only waiver exempt Dman in the running to the AHL - a guy who is still coming straight off of surgery, missed the last 50 games of last season, and currently has all of 0 games of NHL experience - is hardly a case of "blocking a far better player".

It's the absolutely right and smart thing to do.

We can all be very happy in knowing that when the time is right, Toews will get what will surely be a well-earned spot and can step right into the line-up, perhaps then surpassing others, including Sbisa.

Furthermore, decisions of this nature have been made by contenders and champions for AGES, unlike the past few decades of Islanders hockey where, at times, guys who could simply tie their skates well were gifted a spot in the line-up.

Can't believe any of us feel it necessary to question such things as if we know it all better.

Brian Strait says hello.

 

[JPIsles21]

If you'd like people to take your posts and thoughts seriously, you'll need to refrain from throwing around statements such as this.



Sbisa has been signed as a guy who now adds more NHL experience to this line-up than anybody not named Leddy or Boychuk.

That the team is apparently starting the season with him in the line-up while sending the only waiver exempt Dman in the running to the AHL - a guy who is still coming straight off of surgery, missed the last 50 games of last season, and currently has all of 0 games of NHL experience - is hardly a case of "blocking a far better player".

It's the absolutely right and smart thing to do.

We can all be very happy in knowing that when the time is right, Toews will get what will surely be a well-earned spot and can step right into the line-up, perhaps then surpassing others, including Sbisa.

Furthermore, decisions of this nature have been made by contenders and champions for AGES, unlike the past few decades of Islanders hockey where, at times, guys who could simply tie their skates well were gifted a spot in the line-up.

Can't believe any of us feel it necessary to question such things as if we know it all better.

The condescending nature of this post, I will ignore.

The idea that experience transcends talent and usefulness is an old-age thought that I was never able to understand. That kind of logic would mean guys like Barzal, Boeser, McCavoy, etc are less valuable than the Sbisas of the world. When you are building a roster, you pick the top 12 forwards. You pick the top 6 dmen. You put the players in a position to succeed. The good teams understand this: Lightning, Sharks, Preds, etc. These teams consistently play their best players, regardless of age or experience. These teams very rarely waste roster spots.

When you look at our roster. Whether you buy into advanced analytics or the eye test, it is very clear that we have a more than a handful of players that are net negatives on the ice:

Sbisa
Kuhnackl
Filpula
Clutterbuck

Then you have guys that barely move the needle, but mostly fall on the negative side in terms of impact

Cizikas
Martin
Mayfield
Fritz
Komarov
Johnston

We have 10 players on a roster, some with lots of "experience" that do nothing in terms of tangible goods on the ice. The analytics and the eye test support that. To argue against this point is mind boggling.

Now I can buy the idea of having Bellows and Ho-Sang dominate the AHL prior to being called up. There is likely a lot of value there. What makes me doubt the process is not having a 24 year old AHL all star not being in the top 6 in favor of a journey man dman who has never had a successful season by any metric (advanced or otherwise).

Forward thinking analysts and fans can't agree with you and Lou on this roster construction. Sorry.