2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[Majorityof1]

I am one of Armstrong's bigger critics. However, I think he bought himself some leash with this off-season and with lucking into back-to-back years with playoff series wins. I'd like to see how he handles the deadline before signing him ideally. However, if it makes more sense to clear that from over his head going into the trade deadline, I am ok with extending him on a short contract now. I don't want 4+ years. I'd like 2-3, with maybe an option for more.

 

[Oberyn]

I'm fine with the contract extension as well. I think people don't realize you could have a lot worse than Armstrong as your GM. Look at Edmonton with Chiarelli, they're going nowhere. Hextall has been abysmal with Philly. Dorion in Ottawa isn't looking so hot. And then you have guys like Sakic, Sweeney, Benning, McPhee who I want no part of either.

 

[Mike Liut]

What makes you say that? It depends how soon, but there will probably be several exempt young players. Worst case scenario, the Blues can make a deal to protect a play they don't want to lose. Eh, I don't see any reason it would be any more problematic than last time.

Because the Blues are going to have way more top end talent to protect by the next expansion draft. But like you said, it’s going to depend on who’s exempt. I’m not really sure on the specifics of that.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I'm fine with the contract extension as well. I think people don't realize you could have a lot worse than Armstrong as your GM. Look at Edmonton with Chiarelli, they're going nowhere. Hextall has been abysmal with Philly. Dorion in Ottawa isn't looking so hot. And then you have guys like Sakic, Sweeney, Benning, McPhee who I want no part of either.

I agree with this.

I'm much more scared of the alternatives than I am with Armstrong himself.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

As far as I'm concerned, Armstrong has earned himself some slack. I really liked his moves this off-season, and think he made a very difficult, but correct decision to let Backes go the year before. We can complain about the Lehtera contract all we want, but if that's the worst he's done then we are in very good shape. He's also done a very good job of keeping this team competitive year in and year out. I don't think that's something we should over look. It's good for the bottom line, and I'm sure ownership is pretty happy with that.

 

[Dbrownss]

Ive been pleased with the direction of the team to add speed. He mentioned this transition 2 or 3 yrs ago and commented on how you have to draft and develope your own. He's stuck to that philosophy and the future Blues look good. His biggest gaff is Oshie for Brouwer and a bag of pucks. Brouwer was fine to get but im surpised he couldn't get a 1st on top of brouwer.

 

[MissouriMook]

I'm fine with the contract extension as well. I think people don't realize you could have a lot worse than Armstrong as your GM. Look at Edmonton with Chiarelli, they're going nowhere. Hextall has been abysmal with Philly. Dorion in Ottawa isn't looking so hot. And then you have guys like Sakic, Sweeney, Benning, McPhee who I want no part of either.

JR posted something on Twitter today, citing that since DA took over as GM of the Blues in 2010 there have been 105 buyouts of NHL contract, none of them by DA. He doesn't hit a home run every time, but I'm sure this ownership group has an appreciation for his ability to improve the club and build a contender without breaking the bank.

 

[Note Worthy]

As far as I'm concerned, Armstrong has earned himself some slack. I really liked his moves this off-season, and think he made a very difficult, but correct decision to let Backes go the year before. We can complain about the Lehtera contract all we want, but if that's the worst he's done then we are in very good shape. He's also done a very good job of keeping this team competitive year in and year out. I don't think that's something we should over look. It's good for the bottom line, and I'm sure ownership is pretty happy with that.

The Lehtera contract wasn't great but to Armstrong's credit he was able to dump it. At least we're not still stuck with it.

 

[Alklha]

JR posted something on Twitter today, citing that since DA took over as GM of the Blues in 2010 there have been 105 buyouts of NHL contract, none of them by DA. He doesn't hit a home run every time, but I'm sure this ownership group has an appreciation for his ability to improve the club and build a contender without breaking the bank.

We haven't had any buyouts because Armstrong is rather risk-averse when it comes to contracts. We don't get many bad ones, we don't get many great ones and it makes getting UFA's difficult. The latter is probably a good thing.

It was a good offseason for the front office, but it was also another summer of talking about getting faster and not seeing as much of that as I would have liked.

That's the thing, when it comes to the long term outlook of the organisation then Doug Armstrong is probably the best GM for the job. He is safe and steady, has put together a great scouting department and he'll likely do a good jo in bringing those prospects through.

The problem is whether we want to win... because he hasn't really shown that he is a GM capable of making a move to put us over the top. Maybe we haven't been in that position in the past, but we have a pretty full roster and a lot of prospects who'll soon be pushing for a roster spot. We're in that position now.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I've been happy overall, especially since the draft where he addressed our biggest hole while dumping our biggest anchor.

The Lehtera contract wasn't great but to Armstrong's credit he was able to dump it. At least we're not still stuck with it.

Considering that is his worst contract, the fact that it was only a 3yr deal compared to the nightmare 6+year deals that other teams have.

 

[Dbrownss]

We haven't had any buyouts because Armstrong is rather risk-averse when it comes to contracts. We don't get many bad ones, we don't get many great ones and it makes getting UFA's difficult. The latter is probably a good thing.

It was a good offseason for the front office, but it was also another summer of talking about getting faster and not seeing as much of that as I would have liked.

That's the thing, when it comes to the long term outlook of the organisation then Doug Armstrong is probably the best GM for the job. He is safe and steady, has put together a great scouting department and he'll likely do a good jo in bringing those prospects through.

The problem is whether we want to win... because he hasn't really shown that he is a GM capable of making a move to put us over the top. Maybe we haven't been in that position in the past, but we have a pretty full roster and a lot of prospects who'll soon be pushing for a roster spot. We're in that position now.

1st bold: I think that is more of an internal solution then external, although Moving Lehtera out and brining in Schenn was going from a go kart to a F1 car. Managment seems to be putting an emphisis on skating. Drafting has beeing keying in on it and trade targets have been much better skaters(Drouin & Hall).

2 Bold: I dont think we've been in the position too many times. He made the move with Schenn because he knew he had his 2 1st round picks. He positioned himself well at that draft. People complain about no 2018 1st, but its not critical because we had 2 2017 1sts.

I know some want those big Poile trades that Nashville has been doing but he seemed like the most boring GM till recently. He's had some major job security to build what he had then he made his moves

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

No way ownership lets Armstrong go. Arena is being renovated, team is about to sign new tv deal to even further boost profits. Add in 60% of playoffs ticket sales from continually making playoffs and the fact that blues are sitting atop of the league with core being roughly 26 yo.
Now some mentioned Poile, other than him what nhl gm has actually done better than dm?

 

[EastonBlues22]

No way ownership lets Armstrong go. Arena is being renovated, team is about to sign new tv deal to even further boost profits. Add in 60% of playoffs ticket sales from continually making playoffs and the fact that blues are sitting atop of the league with core being roughly 26 yo.
Now some mentioned Poile, other than him what nhl gm has actually done better than dm?

Yzerman has made a strong case for himself, and Lamoriello. Rutherford has done good work. Cheveldayoff and Nill have generally done well for their organizations without any terrible missteps. Holland's career body of work is pretty impressive. Bowman deserves a nod for three Cups in Chicago. Tallon helped set the table in Chicago for Bowman, and has done pretty good things in Florida in spite of cap constraints. Murray in Anaheim has had a solid run.

There are too many risks taken, especially by those pushing the envelope for competitive reasons, to be up all the time as an NHL GM...not to mention a lot of things that are simply beyond their control. Armstrong has his strong points, but he has his weaknesses as well. To me, he doesn't feel like a top 5 GM in this league. Probably top 10. Good enough that it would probably be hard to find someone better, but not good enough to give any real competitive advantage over the top third of GMs in the league or so.

 

[carter333167]

To the extent that buying out Lehtera would have saved us our first round pick in 2018, I think I would have preferred the buy out.

DA has been pretty bad the last few years. This past summer redeemed him somewhat but he still is not in that top 5 in the league category...probably right around the 10ish mark and, to be fair, there definitely are a cadre of GM's who are worse.

I think DA could be helped a lot by the right assistant GM who might specialize in identifying opportunities that DA is just not seeing.

At this point, though, I would just like him to stay the course on building our prospect pool, i.e, keep our #1 picks to allow Bill Armstrong to build this team. I think BA is very talented.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

To the extent that buying out Lehtera would have saved us our first round pick in 2018, I think I would have preferred the buy out.

You aren't looking at the totality of circumstances though. We didn't really give up the 2018 first to dump Lehtera. We traded the 2018 first to get Schenn. You really have to include the Reaves trade as well because Armsrong is on record as saying we wouldn't have done the Schenn deal without it. So it really breaks down like this: We acquired Schenn, Sundqvist and pick 51 in exchange for Lehtera, Reaves, next year's first, and agreeing to drop back from 27 to 31 this year. Seemed like we were pretty high on Kostin so I suspect we would have taken him at 27 anyway.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

You aren't looking at the totality of circumstances though. We didn't really give up the 2018 first to dump Lehtera. We traded the 2018 first to get Schenn. You really have to include the Reaves trade as well because Armsrong is on record as saying we wouldn't have done the Schenn deal without it. So it really breaks down like this: We acquired Schenn, Sundqvist and pick 51 in exchange for Lehtera, Reaves, next year's first, and agreeing to drop back from 27 to 31 this year. Seemed like we were pretty high on Kostin so I suspect we would have taken him at 27 anyway.

Jesus f*** that hurts my soul.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

You aren't looking at the totality of circumstances though. We didn't really give up the 2018 first to dump Lehtera. We traded the 2018 first to get Schenn. You really have to include the Reaves trade as well because Armsrong is on record as saying we wouldn't have done the Schenn deal without it. So it really breaks down like this: We acquired Schenn, Sundqvist and pick 51 in exchange for Lehtera, Reaves, next year's first, and agreeing to drop back from 27 to 31 this year. Seemed like we were pretty high on Kostin so I suspect we would have taken him at 27 anyway.

Agreed, except I think the Blues traded for pick 31 knowing they would end up with one of Kostin or Tolvanen. I can’t say who they actually preferred, but I think the Blues would have rather had Tolvanen. But in any case, it’s irrelevant given the trade was done with one of those two prospects in mind.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Jesus **** that hurts my soul.

Why would it? That was a very solid set of trades. We got rid of an anchor contract and managed to get a player that's been critical to our success so far. And we were still able to maintain two picks in the first round this year. I can't complain with that in the slightest.

 

[Majorityof1]

Why would it? That was a very solid set of trades. We got rid of an anchor contract and managed to get a player that's been critical to our success so far. And we were still able to maintain two picks in the first round this year. I can't complain with that in the slightest.

He's a Flyers fan bandwagoning on our team because he hates their GM. So while he is rooting for the Blues to do well, not at the expense of his #1 team, the Flyers. The player that is critical to our success came from his #1 team. The player that is the boar anchor is now on his #1 team...ergo, it hurts his soul.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Don't look now, but Jaskin is turning into a serviceable bottom 6 player. He's hard to play against, and has been involved in scoring chances more regularly. If he winds up being a 4th line regular who slides up occasionally, I'd be pretty happy with that.

 

[Brian39]

Don't look now, but Jaskin is turning into a serviceable bottom 6 player. He's hard to play against, and has been involved in scoring chances more regularly. If he winds up being a 4th line regular who slides up occasionally, I'd be pretty happy with that.

He's on pace for 30 points over an 82 game season and currently has the some of the best possession numbers on the team. And that's despite starting a 65/35 zone start split in favor of the defensive zone and playing less than 12 minutes a night.

I don't think that this was the goal when we drafted him, but he is a legitimate contributor to the bottom 6 at this point in his career. That 4th line of Upshall/Brodziak/Jaskin is regularly outplaying the 3rd line and their offensive production is actually on pace to essentially be a low level 3rd line.

 

[Brian39]

With Seattle getting the funding approved today for the arena, this next expansion draft is going to hurt way more than losing Perron.

It's hard to say IMO. The absolute best case scenario is that Key Arena would be ready for an NHL team in October of 2020, and that's only if they can get through the environmental survey process very quickly and start demolition within 9 months. That's no easy task.

We only have 6 guys who are under contract for the 2020/21 season, which is still 3 years away. To compare, we only have 12 guys who were on our roster 3 years ago (8 if you exclude obviously unprotected guys like Bortuzzo, Paajarvi, Jaskin, Gunnar). 3 years is a long time in pro sports. A ton of guys who seem completely irreplaceable now could be afterthoughts by the summer of 2020.

 

[Mike Liut]

Don't look now, but Jaskin is turning into a serviceable bottom 6 player. He's hard to play against, and has been involved in scoring chances more regularly. If he winds up being a 4th line regular who slides up occasionally, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Agree. I think hes a darn good bottom 6 player, which is all we need him for with the amount of top 6 talent we have and thats on the way.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Jaskin is playing well right now, but it would sure help his career as a bottom 6 type if he could become a contributor on the PK.

 

[carter333167]

You aren't looking at the totality of circumstances though. We didn't really give up the 2018 first to dump Lehtera. We traded the 2018 first to get Schenn. You really have to include the Reaves trade as well because Armsrong is on record as saying we wouldn't have done the Schenn deal without it. So it really breaks down like this: We acquired Schenn, Sundqvist and pick 51 in exchange for Lehtera, Reaves, next year's first, and agreeing to drop back from 27 to 31 this year. Seemed like we were pretty high on Kostin so I suspect we would have taken him at 27 anyway.

Very fair points. I do wonder how the totality of those deals would have materialized if we had not needed to dump Lehtera.