Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #21

[Curufinwe]

1. Patrick, Nolan ~ C - 98%
2. Sanheim, Travis ~ LHD - 74%
3. Lindblom, Oskar ~ LW/RW - 64%
4. Myers, Phil ~ RHD - 80%
5. Rubtsov, German ~ C/W - 53%
6. Morin, Sam ~ LHD - 78%
7. Frost, Morgan ~ C/LW - 50%
8. Allison, Wade ~ RW - 35%
9. Hagg, Robert ~ LHD - 38%
10. Vorobyev, Mikhail ~ C - 51%
11. Ratcliffe, Isaac ~ LW - 51%
12. Laczynski, Tanner ~ C - 37%
13. Friedman, Mark ~ RHD - 42%
14. Laberge, Pascal ~ C/RW - 69%
15. Aube-Kubel, Nicolas ~ RW/LW - 38%
16. Bunnaman, Connor ~ C/LW - 41%
17. Hogberg, Linus ~ LHD - 33%
18. Strome, Matthew ~ LW - 44%
19. Kase, David ~ W/C - 33%
20. Vecchione, Mike ~ C - 42%


Amorosa, Terrance ~ LHD
Bardreau, Cole ~ C
Bernhardt, David ~ LHD
Cates, Noah ~ LW
Drake, David ~ LHD
Fazleev, Radel ~ C
Goulbourne, Tyrell ~ LW
Kalynuk, Wyatt ~ LHD
Leier, Taylor ~ LW
Lycksell, Olle ~ C
Marody, Cooper ~ C
Martel, Danick ~ LW/RW
Salinitri, Anthony ~ C
Sushko, Maxim ~ RW
Twarynski, Carson ~ LW
Warren, Brendan ~ LW
Willcox, Reece ~ RHD

Click to read more...

 

[FlyTimmo]

Cates

 

[deadhead]

I give up, Leier gets no love.

So I'm going with Bernhardt, simply because he's better than the guys left who'll get some votes. He reported has some skating issues, but not Strome level issues, and has the size and offensive skills to be a solid defenseman, and held his own in the SHL at 19 years old, plus played well in the WJC.

I can't vote for Cates, Sushko, Marody or Lycksell until they have some kind of track record. Marody has shown flashes in college, but let him stay out of trouble, play a full year and produce.

 

[Stizzle]

I voted Cates, again.

So I'm going with Bernhardt, simply because he's better than the guys left who'll get some votes. He reported has some skating issues, but not Strome level issues, and has the size and offensive skills to be a solid defenseman, and held his own in the SHL at 19 years old, plus played well in the WJC.

All valid points and a very defensible pick. My main knock against is he doesn't seem to be a natural puck mover. From what I've seen, he can be overwhelmed by an aggressive forecheck pretty often.

 

[Rebels57]

Cates

 

[Curufinwe]

I like Martel here but he has no chance, so I'll be a Bernie bro.

 

[Ruck Over]

Feel the Bern!

Cates is my next person to vote for.

Was not pleased with Vecchione placement. Alluded to this in a post way back, we're inconsistent with what we're voting for- ceiling/potential, or what have you done for me lately. Vecc to me seems to be a younger Raffl (<Read) at his best. There seem to be guys on this list still that project higher than Raffl as sunny day home runs.

Alas, having a guy like Vecc be #20 on a list is pretty damn impressive and as deep as the Flyers have been since arguably Richards and Carter helped win that Calder Cup.

 

[NHLPaul]

Marody
Cates/Bernhardt
Leier
Lycksell
Sushko
Vecchione (yes I've seen the list)

I actually think they all have NHL potential in some regard.

 

[deadhead]

Guys who are newly drafted usually project higher because we haven't seen them go against top competition, or how their bodies will change between 18-22 (some get faster, some get slower).

So to me what you're looking for is expected value, the upside x the probability of reaching that upside. No one cares about the floor (unless it's really high, like Patrick), since for most players the floor means they never see the NHL.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Upside pick: Cates

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Marody

 

[briererocks]

Bernhardt over Cates...

Selecting the player who has played in the SHL and WJC over the player who has received crazy hype.

 

[Jray42]

Cates

 

[Magua]

Bernhardt over Cates...

Selecting the player who has played in the SHL and WJC over the player who has received crazy hype.

Don't have a problem with anyone voting Bernhardt, especially for positional value and upside, and he should go around here, but are those reasons? Leier, Fazleev, Bardreau played in the WJC. Bernhardt played, but he was a 6/7 PP guy. And playing in the SHL, on a mediocre team, at age 19 is not the amazing accomplishment it's made out to be. He's shown he's beyond the junior level. And he still only split the year in the SHL. A kid like Hogberg is 9 months younger and played more SHL games on one of the best teams in the league.

 

[deadhead]

Bernhardt played well in his SHL stint:
27 2-5 7 +7
And he was pretty dominant at the Swedish Jr level:
66 19-40 59 +14 58 (over 2 years)

So he has a track record of producing.

Problem I have with raw skills is guys can look good and put up numbers at lower levels, remember Straka? But until they get to the AHL or SHL you don't really know if they'll play a two way game - Frost admitted to being focused on scoring because of the draft. And juniors and the USHL lack the physicality of the AHL or the experience veterans of the SHL.

Which is why it's hard to project any of these guys.

Ratcliffe is a good example, what will he look like in three years when he adds 20 lbs, a monster PF who can skate, or a big forward who never quite puts it together?

It's easy to project Patrick, at 17 he was probably NHL ready.
It's a lot harder projecting Frost.
When I look at guys like Cates,

 

[Alex91]

edit

The only guys ive seen play are:

Bardreau
Bernhardt (WJC)
Fazleev
Goulbourne
Leier
Mardoy
Martel
Salinitri
Twarysnki
Willcox

Out of these guys Leier and Martel was the only one that showed NHL skills at this part of their development.

 

[briererocks]

Don't have a problem with anyone voting Bernhardt, especially for positional value and upside, and he should go around here, but are those reasons? Leier, Fazleev, Bardreau played in the WJC. Bernhardt played, but he was a 6/7 PP guy. And playing in the SHL, on a mediocre team, at age 19 is not the amazing accomplishment it's made out to be. He's shown he's beyond the junior level. And he still only split the year in the SHL. A kid like Hogberg is 9 months younger and played more SHL games on one of the best teams in the league.

Interesting. Thx

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Don't have a problem with anyone voting Bernhardt, especially for positional value and upside, and he should go around here, but are those reasons? Leier, Fazleev, Bardreau played in the WJC. Bernhardt played, but he was a 6/7 PP guy. And playing in the SHL, on a mediocre team, at age 19 is not the amazing accomplishment it's made out to be. He's shown he's beyond the junior level. And he still only split the year in the SHL. A kid like Hogberg is 9 months younger and played more SHL games on one of the best teams in the league.

Right, but Hogberg went at 17. I think Bernhardt having the combination of size, SHL experience (with decent production), WJC experience, and positional value are as good as any reasons to pick him over the guys who are left at 21.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Right, but Hogberg went at 17. I think Bernhardt having the combination of size, SHL experience (with decent production), WJC experience, and positional value are as good as any reasons to pick him over the guys who are left at 21.

I'm pretty sure magua agrees with you haha.

 

[Flyerfan13]

I voted for cates here but I do like Martel here also. Any thoughts on Martel magua do u think he will be an NHL player?

 

[Pantokrator]

I continue to vote Leier because at least he will get some NHL games.

 

[Magua]

Any thoughts on Martel magua do u think he will be an NHL player?

We talked about Martel a couple polls ago......I don't know. He's a 5'8 undrafted forward with 2 AHL years under his belt and a career high of 40 points in 68 games. He's got work to do yet before I think he'll be an NHL player, but it would not surprise me if he could become another undersized guy that blossoms as a mid-twenties NHL player when actually given a chance. He's better than those raw stats show. It seems the poll will go Cates, then Bernhardt. Could make a case for him after that. He'll get lumped in with some of the other AAAA small guys, but Martel has a higher ceiling to me. Not like he couldn't do the speed/energy stuff like Leier too.

He had the most 5v5 points on LHV; right behind McDonald for most 5v5 goals. Only behind Weal in estimated points/60, and he led the team in estimated primary points/60 (by a lot). 28/32 5v5 points were primaries, so luck wasn't even terribly in his favor. Led the team in relative goals for % too.

But he didn't get much PP time and was 9th among forwards on the Phantoms in PP scoring. And frankly it annoys me that they keep signing no-chance-NHL veterans like Conner and Carey and the like to devour PP and top scoring minutes instead of seeing what a kid like Martel has -- to say nothing of our drafted prospects. They made it basically impossible for him to get those minutes and actually evaluate him long-term. It'll be hard to score more than he has. Like if Martel got those minutes and creeped closer to a point/game, with everything else he brings (**** and vinegar, nose for the net, good shot, real skating burst), maybe he'd arouse curiosity. Seems to me like they're setting it up for him to get his potential shot elsewhere in a few years.

 

[Flyerfan13]

We talked about Martel a couple polls ago......I don't know. He's a 5'8 undrafted forward with 2 AHL years under his belt and a career high of 40 points in 68 games. He's got work to do yet before I think he'll be an NHL player, but it would not surprise me if he could become another undersized guy that blossoms as a mid-twenties NHL player when actually given a chance. He's better than those raw stats show. It seems the poll will go Cates, then Bernhardt. Could make a case for him after that. He'll get lumped in with some of the other AAAA small guys, but Martel has a higher ceiling to me. Not like he couldn't do the speed/energy stuff like Leier too.

He had the most 5v5 points on LHV; right behind McDonald for most 5v5 goals. Only behind Weal in estimated points/60, and he led the team in estimated primary points/60 (by a lot). 28/32 5v5 points were primaries, so luck wasn't even terribly in his favor. Led the team in relative goals for % too.

But he didn't get much PP time and was 9th among forwards on the Phantoms in PP scoring. And frankly it annoys me that they keep signing no-chance-NHL veterans like Conner and Carey and the like to devour PP and top scoring minutes instead of seeing what a kid like Martel has -- to say nothing of our drafted prospects. They made it basically impossible for him to get those minutes and actually evaluate him long-term. It'll be hard to score more than he has. Like if Martel got those minutes and creeped closer to a point/game, with everything else he brings (**** and vinegar, nose for the net, good shot, real skating burst), maybe he'd arouse curiosity. Seems to me like they're setting it up for him to get his potential shot elsewhere in a few years.

Thanks for posting this I do not remember a Martel discussion recently I may have missed it. In watching the phantoms games he is always a guy that stood out having great skating and being the 1st guy in on the forecheck applying pressure.most games I watched he had at least 1 breakaway scoring opportunity it was always baffling to me why he didn't get more power play time. He has the skill to be more of a scorer with 102 pts his draft plus 2 year including 48 goals but just keeps getting pushed down in the lineup. It is seriously concerning the usage these kids r getting on the phantoms.

 

[dropdeadjoey]

I continue to vote Leier because at least he will get some NHL games.

This, I like Bernhardt and Cates, but Leier is currently a much better shot to get NHL games than those two, at least sooner.

If someone could clarify for me, are we voting based on potential for the future, or just where they rank among the Flyers prospects now?

 

[Rebels57]

This, I like Bernhardt and Cates, but Leier is currently a much better shot to get NHL games than those two, at least sooner.

If someone could clarify for me, are we voting based on potential for the future, or just where they rank among the Flyers prospects now?

Personally I am voting based on a combination of potential based on skill sets/physical tools and likelihood of reaching their potential. Position is also a factor (Centers and Dmen usually more valuable than Wingers for example)