2016 World Junior Discussion (continued)

[91Kadri91*]

Was not impressed with Marner's performance. Yes its his first game, but it is completely reasonable to expect more than that mediocre performance he showed. There seems to be a tale of two Mitch Marners. I've seen him dominate in London games against weak competition like Guelph and I've seen him completely neutralized when facing good teams. And I don't mean just the Americans. He played this way against Erie and Kitchener too.

He was the best player in that Erie game.

 

[Stand Witness]

If you are talking strictly points, 750 in 1000 sure I would be happy. But there is more to hockey than just points and that's why Sullivan was an offensive 2//3C that offered very little other than decent scoring. Using last season Leaf stats is not setting the bar very high. If you want to twist what I said into into me claiming Sullivan's career ppg being brutal go ahead.

Marner is a player who many claim to be a 1/2 pick in most drafts, whose comparisons are the NHL's elite and has more hype than any Leaf prospect for decades. If he turned out to be a 2/3 C that bounced around the NHL and brought nothing to the table other than offence, I think the majority would consider this brutal or a huge disappointment.

If you don't consider what Sullivan did between 99/00-06/'07 as at minimum and elite #2 or a #1 center than your standards must be ridiculously high.

The only time you could consider Sullivan a #3 center was during his time with the Leafs and his journeyman years in the later 4 years of his career.

At any other time he was a #1 or #2 quality center.

Again, this is not a brutal return on a 4th overall pick. It might be disappointing for Marner but it is faaaaar from brutal.

 

[ULF_55]

Timashov

A bright spot for Leafs fans today.

 

[Mitchy]

One game, folks. One game.

 

[Menzinger]

One game, folks. One game.

Something that bears repeating again and again.

 

[Gabriel426]

OMG, one game and people goes banana.
Marner struggles a bit and someone suggested he is Steve Sullivan 2.0. If Marner scores a trick with 2 apples next game, r we going to call him Pint Size Mario, or Gretzky 2.0.

I think we look too much into our prospects. Let's just them play.

 

[Deez Nuts]

OMG, one game and people goes banana.
Marner struggles a bit and someone suggested he is Steve Sullivan 2.0. If Marner scores a trick with 2 apples next game, r we going to call him Pint Size Mario, or Gretzky 2.0.

I think we look too much into our prospects. Let's just them play.

Reading comprehension 101 - nobody suggested he was Steve Sullivan 2.0.

However a couple have indicated that they would be "happy campers" if Marner were to have a Steve Sullivsn type career.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I didn't see today's game.

But, count me among those that aren't surprised Marner didn't blow people away.

His speed game and pp game can be neutralized against well coached, good defensive teams.

 

[Atomos2]

He was the best player in that Erie game.

No he wasn't.

 

[Jeypic]

I didn't see today's game.

But, count me among those that aren't surprised Marner didn't blow people away.

His speed game and pp game can be neutralized against well coached, good defensive teams.

well coached good defensive teams can often neutralize elite talent. Marner still got an assist.. He wasn't completely neutralized. I don't even agree that a well coached good defensive team was the problem in this game either. Mitch seemed to be his own worst enemy first two periods

 

[cookie]

For the sake of balance, I will say this about Marner. He is a very exciting player, possibly, potentially the most exciting player in Toronto since Alexander Mogilny who was just a beautiful skater and shooter. Forget that he also had a great dry sense of humour.

But I will say this for the detractors of Marner, again, for the sake of balance. I was shocked when I saw a picture of him in shorts along with that Bailey kid and Bracco at the Leaf training camp. Bird legs is all I could think of when I saw Marners legs. Now Micheal Jordan also had a pair of bird legs for the first six years of his career and somehow he could still do things that seemed impossible for such a pair of twigs.

But lets get it straight, in terms of excitement and talent, Marner is a 9/10 in my books. But yeah, probably needs to be managed carefully and not rushed based purely on production and talent.

Bust? No, not unless he gets crushed and permanently injured, kid has a heart of a pack of lions, he will make it no matter what, he wants it too bad.

If you're gonna judge a guy by his legs, look at Wayne Simmonds. Toothpicks yet he's among the strongest players in the league.

Marner's looked okay but obviously not at 100%. Barzal looked shaky as well, especially in the first period PP, but played much better as the game went on. No mention of that here, surprisingly enough.

The goalies were the difference in that game.

2 Goals as a result of the Canadian player tipping a point shot. Impossible to blame the loss on goaltending, especially after also considering the Canadians had several high-danger scoring chances.

Take off your homer glasses. It was blatantly obvious.

speaking of glasses....

 

[Gabriel426]

Reading comprehension 101 - nobody suggested he was Steve Sullivan 2.0.

However a couple have indicated that they would be "happy campers" if Marner were to have a Steve Sullivsn type career.

Sorry, to me it is the same thing. If someone is happy that Marner have a Steve Sullivan type career, that's pretty much saying he is another Steve Sullivan to me.

 

[91Kadri91*]

No he wasn't.

Convincing evidence.

He was, but then I actually watched and tracked the game, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage.

 

[Atomos2]

Convincing evidence.

He was, but then I actually watched and tracked the game, which puts me at a distinct disadvantage.

And that's supposed to be your evidence?

I watched the game too, hence, why I brought it up as an example in the first place. Strome easily looked like the better player in that game and there were a few others.

 

[91Kadri91*]

And that's supposed to be your evidence?

I watched the game too, hence, why I brought it up as an example in the first place. Strome easily looked like the better player in that game.

What? Strome? Strome was thoroughly disappointing in that game.

There wasn't a lot going on in (a lot of neutral zone play), so no one looked outstanding, but if you think Strome played better than Marner in that particular game, then I don't know what to tell you. Strome looked good on the power-play, but was very disappointing at even-strength. Of course, it's just one game, so this shouldn't read as a slight to Strome or an aggrandizing of Marner, but rather a simple construction of what actually occurred (rather than an account littered with your personal biases).

 

[Snow Dog]

What? Strome? Strome was thoroughly disappointing in that game.

There wasn't a lot going on in (a lot of neutral zone play), so no one looked outstanding, but if you think Strome played better than Marner in that particular game, then I don't know what to tell you. Strome looked good on the power-play, but was very disappointing at even-strength. Of course, it's just one game, so this shouldn't read as a slight to Strome or an aggrandizing of Marner, but rather a simple construction of what actually occurred (rather than an account littered with your personal biases).

Strome played well in the game.Marner OK,needes to pick it up.I think he's used to the lesser competition he's played agaainst lately.He'll come around.

 

[Atomos2]

What? Strome? Strome was thoroughly disappointing in that game.

There wasn't a lot going on in (a lot of neutral zone play), so no one looked outstanding, but if you think Strome played better than Marner in that particular game, then I don't know what to tell you. Strome looked good on the power-play, but was very disappointing at even-strength. Of course, it's just one game, so this shouldn't read as a slight to Strome or an aggrandizing of Marner, but rather a simple construction of what actually occurred (rather than an account littered with your personal biases).

I don't know what you're talking about. This is literally the game I stapled as an underwhelming performance by the whole Marner line. Strome looked damn impressive when I saw him (now that I think about it, it was mainly on the powerplay) And will you stop with the personal bias ****. I'm a damn leaf fan, where do you think my allegiances lie? I just call out Marner when he's underwhelming.

 

[91Kadri91*]

I don't know what you're talking about. This is literally the game I stapled as an underwhelming performance by the whole Marner line.

That you stapled as an underwhelming performance (i.e. your opinion; i.e. personal bias)

Strome looked damn impressive when I saw him (now that I think about it, it was mainly on the powerplay) And will you stop with the personal bias ****. I'm a damn leaf fan, where do you think my allegiances lie? I just call out Marner when he's underwhelming.

If you want to call out Marner for his play against the Americans today (the first two periods), or his play against Kitchener, then be my guest; he wasn't good in either of those games. I just don't share the opinion that he performed poorly against Erie (because he didn't).

 

[Liminality]

well coached good defensive teams can often neutralize elite talent. Marner still got an assist.. He wasn't completely neutralized. I don't even agree that a well coached good defensive team was the problem in this game either. Mitch seemed to be his own worst enemy first two periods

Yeah think once he settled in he was fine, 3rd period he was more like himself.

 

[Atomos2]

That you stapled as an underwhelming performance (i.e. your opinion; i.e. personal bias)



If you want to call out Marner for his play against the Americans today (the first two periods), or his play against Kitchener, then be my guest; he wasn't good in either of those games. I just don't share the opinion that he performed poorly against Erie (because he didn't).

He didn't in your opinion. He did in mine.

Anyway, he certainly hasn't proved he's a big game player judging by today's game. Luckily it was only a round robin game and he'll have a better chance later on.

 

[pspot]

Don't think strome and marner together worked

Put marner at c with his own line. Give him virtanen or another sniper

 

[91Kadri91*]

He didn't in your opinion. He did in mine.

Anyway, he certainly hasn't proved he's a big game player judging by today's game. Luckily it was only a round robin game and he'll have a better chance later on.

My 'opinion' is supported by tracked data.

 

[TML1]

You know Cherry was pissed about Hicketts play but on coaches corner he says hey it happens all the time, don't worry about it.. Pure class . Love Don.

 

[Atomos2]

My 'opinion' is supported by tracked data.

What tracked data?

 

[91Kadri91*]

What tracked data?

I tracked zone entries/exits, passes (not too technical, just zone passed/zone received; I might go back and record types of o-zone passes) and Corsi. I've done it for a couple of Marlies games and a few of Marner's so far. I'll release the data when the season is over (I'm hoping to have around ten games for the Marlies, and ten-to-fifteen of the Knights' games, but that might be too ambitious).