WC: 2016 Team Finland Pt. II

[BB88]

The Finnish team was very good lots to be proud of.

Laine for sure will be on the World Cup team. Hopefully some Finnish fans can make it to Toronto, go have some drinks with Canadians and talk about our shared game.

If I had the money I'd go there
That defense that I talked to you earlier ended up killing us, D-zone entries were brutal.

Laine wasn't even the best player in his own line. Of course he had an amazing tournament, especially for an 18-year-old, but his MVP prize was just as deserved as Teemu's in Sochi (= undeserved). Well, the media always goes with the hype and for the player who's given them the best story of the tournament. That said, yes, he's probably going to get a spot in the World Cup.

Barkov was my MVP pre sickness, but tough to win it with missing a game and looking like 50% rest of the 2.
He still was the top scorer for Finland, won the scoring in this tourney, scored the back breaker in must win game and assisted the game winner against Russia to make the finals.

 

[ijuka]

Jesus ****ing Christ KJ, you are an absolute idiot.

You had 40 minutes to make adjustments and lineup changes, yet you did nothing. It was evident that rolling all four lines wasn't going to work this time, but apparently he was the only one, who wasn't able to figure that out. Bill Peters completely wiped the floor with KJ, absolutely humiliated him.

Well he hasn't made any changes to his nonfunctional 5 on 5 offensive startup game for 9 games, you think too highly of him if you expect him to make changes during the finals. He showed he has no ability to do so during the game vs Hungary at the latest, although this was clear all the way back in game #1.

The lines aren't the issue BTW, it's the over-arching playstyle. Line changes aren't IMO something you want to be doing too much during finals. Although, I have to say that the Barkov-Jokinen-Laine line just wasn't working in 5v5 for a long, long time. It lost scoring chances vs Denmark as well, I believe. It's strange he made no changes. And kept Laine on his wrong wing.

In fact, it's hard to think of things Kari Jalonen didn't do incorrectly.


BTW, it's hard to believe you guys are MVPing Barkov.

 

[FinPanda]

Oh well, now it's Marjamäki time.

 

[ijuka]

Oh well, now it's Marjamäki time.

Looking forward to that so, so much. Words aren't even enough to describe. A proper offensive system! Adapting to the opponent! It's as if we're in Disneyland.



Ah right, forgot to criticize another thing about Kari Jalonen: So the offensive game is dump and chase. His offensive playbook otherwise is essentially nonexistent. However, only 2 forwards have a license to chase and fight in the corners as it's an extremely scared, defensive system. When the opposing center joins it's 2v3 and the Finns lose this essentially every single time, giving the puck away for free. This happened over and over. I just don't understand where the scoring chances are supposed to be with this offensive system.

 

[FiLe]

Looking forward to that so, so much. Words aren't even enough to describe. A proper offensive system! Adapting to the opponent! It's as if we're in Disneyland.

Isn't this the same song and dance every time we get a new coach?

People were really, really excited when J.Jalonen took the helm in 2008. Fast forward five years, he had an olympic bronze and WHC gold, yet people were sick and tired of his slow starts and control game. Erkka's brief stint initially felt like a breath of fresh air, until we couldn't wait to be rid of him too after picking that Team Grindland for the 2014 WHC. When KJ came in, many of us nodded to his vision about introducing younger players, paying more mind to the AHL and making adjustments to those minor things in the game plan.

Fast forward two years... and here we are.

---

That being said, I also must say that this was a justified end to the tournament. The better team won the final game, hands down. No ifs, no buts.

If there are ifs and buts, they're all about what Finland - and especially Finland's coaches - could have done better. IMO we lost this game behind the bench. In the end, Jalonen was a little too conservative and little too unwilling to look behind the earlier results. That caused a fateful stumble at the final step - like so many times before.

Our offensive game on even strength did lack that little final something, which KJ was never willing to assert. As did PP. Resultwise it was effective, but since it was completely lacking that steady ability to start some offensive end cycling, you just knew it'd come and bite us in the hind side sooner or later. And it did now - Canada kept our guys off the prime chances, and when you can't get prime chances, you don't score. And when you don't score, you don't win. As simple as that.

Additionally, I really must question Jalonen's handling of Rantanen in this tournament. What did he do wrong to get as little trust as he did? He was another offensive weapon (the other one naturally being Pulkkinen) whom Jalonen effectively shafted with his moves.

Best note though that none of these are major things. Overall, it was a positive performance. But if the coach is unwilling to look past the result and adjust the minor things that don't work, you're just going to fall short. End of story.

 

[ijuka]

Isn't this the same song and dance every time we get a new coach?

People were really, really excited when J.Jalonen took the helm in 2008. Fast forward five years, he had an olympic bronze and WHC gold, yet people were sick and tired of his slow starts and control game. Erkka's brief stint initially felt like a breath of fresh air, until we couldn't wait to be rid of him too after picking that Team Grindland for the 2014 WHC. When KJ came in, many of us nodded to his vision about introducing younger players, paying more mind to the AHL and making adjustments to those minor things in the game plan.

Fast forward two years... and here we are.

---

That being said, I also must say that this was a justified end to the tournament. The better team won the final game, hands down. No ifs, no buts.

If there are ifs and buts, they're all about what Finland - and especially Finland's coaches - could have done better. IMO we lost this game behind the bench. In the end, Jalonen was a little too conservative and little too unwilling to look behind the earlier results. That caused a fateful stumble at the final step - like so many times before.

Our offensive game on even strength did lack that little final something, which KJ was never willing to assert. As did PP. Resultwise it was effective, but since it was completely lacking that steady ability to start some offensive end cycling, you just knew it'd come and bite us in the hind side sooner or later. And it did now - Canada kept our guys off the prime chances, and when you can't get prime chances, you don't score. And when you don't score, you don't win. As simple as that.

Additionally, I really must question Jalonen's handling of Rantanen in this tournament. What did he do wrong to get as little trust as he did? He was another offensive weapon (the other one naturally being Pulkkinen) whom Jalonen effectively shafted with his moves.

Best note though that none of these are major things. Overall, it was a positive performance. But if the coach is unwilling to look past the result and adjust the minor things that don't work, you're just going to fall short. End of story.

Who are "people"? I did mention earlier I didn't like Jukka Jalonen, Westerlund or Kari Jalonen. Jukka Jalonen is the best of those but still far, far below the likes of Marjamäki. I wouldn't really care about what the public opinion or what the media thinks. I for one thought that Kari Jalonen was a lost case and was bummed that we'd get another bunch of wasted years. Most people don't even understand what a playing system is and can't look for these things. They think that winning = good, losing = bad, scoring goals = good offensive system, letting in goals = good defensive system. NHL doesn't seem to understand either, judging by the fate of Yeo.

I'd be stunned if Lauri Marjamäki's system isn't leaps and bounds better than Kari Jalonen's. He'd need to try hard for it to be worse. Hope Kari Jalonen is the last of those "Kummola coaches" and we get actually competitive choices from now on.


Oh, and juniors, AHL and whatnot... aren't things I'm interested in regarding the head coach. I'm interested in the system. The gameplan.

 

[snipes]

If I had the money I'd go there
That defense that I talked to you earlier ended up killing us, D-zone entries were brutal.

Our forecheck was relentless today, we came out and played like Canadians it was a good game.

If I'm ever in Suomi for a WJC, I'll send you a PM and we'll go grab a beer .

 

[ijuka]

Yes, after game 1 Finland was analyzed as having a massive weakness to strong forechecking. It never was fixed. All the power to Canada for taking advantage of it. Maybe no one told Kari Jalonen despite it being analyzed after the first game.

 

[FiLe]

Who are "people"? I did mention earlier I didn't like Jukka Jalonen, Westerlund or Kari Jalonen. Jukka Jalonen is the best of those but still far, far below the likes of Marjamäki. I wouldn't really care about what the public opinion or what the media thinks. I for one thought that Kari Jalonen was a lost case and was bummed that we'd get another bunch of wasted years. Most people don't even understand what a playing system is and can't look for these things. They think that winning = good, losing = bad, scoring goals = good offensive system, letting in goals = good defensive system. NHL doesn't seem to understand either, judging by the fate of Yeo.

Yah yah. I don't care what a given individual's reasoning is, we always see this "good riddance to coach X, the next one will be better" comments whenever a tenure ends. You may think you have better reasons than the others, but I'm sure that so did those others.

And I'm no fan of K.Jalonen, too conservative for my tastes. Good riddance KJ, don't let the door hit you and so forth.

That being said, Marjamäki still has ways to go before we can effectively call him better than J.Jalonen. JJ may have had his own tactical hiccups, but he still has one characteristic that makes him no.1 among all Finnish coaches throughout the history - desire to always get better, no matter what.

 

[MessierII]

5 years ago I never would have imagined such a bright future for the Finns. They went from an aging vet team to a a team on the rise in a flash. So many great young players.

 

[Jussi]

Looking forward to that so, so much. Words aren't even enough to describe. A proper offensive system! Adapting to the opponent! It's as if we're in Disneyland.



Ah right, forgot to criticize another thing about Kari Jalonen: So the offensive game is dump and chase. His offensive playbook otherwise is essentially nonexistent. However, only 2 forwards have a license to chase and fight in the corners as it's an extremely scared, defensive system. When the opposing center joins it's 2v3 and the Finns lose this essentially every single time, giving the puck away for free. This happened over and over. I just don't understand where the scoring chances are supposed to be with this offensive system.

Canada's forecheck and defensive system kind of forced us into that. It took too long to break out from our end and once we got to the neutral zone, their defense was too well set up at the blueline to attempt anything else but a chip or a dump in. If we tried to enter the zone from the wing or center it lead to us turning over the puck many times.

 

[crowi]

****** coaching.

 

[BL92]

I love Sasha but what the hell happened to him? Seems like he didn't fully recover from the flu.

 

[BL92]

****** coaching. Hope they fix this soon.

I thought Kari Jalonen was great.

 

[crowi]

The Finnish team was very good lots to be proud of.

Laine for sure will be on the World Cup team. Hopefully some Finnish fans can make it to Toronto, go have some drinks with Canadians and talk about our shared game.

No one but some canadians give a **** about world cup.

Also no more love for snipes from me.

 

[crowi]

I thought Kari Jalonen was great.

How about working on how to use the PP? First few games it went perfect - then for no reason change it. Not to mention how passive his gameplan is overall. Bad coach - happy to get rid of.

 

[BL92]

No one but some canadians give a **** about world cup.

And its aired on a channel that you have to pay for. Finns are totally going to miss it and I also feel disinterested already.

 

[BB88]

Our forecheck was relentless today, we came out and played like Canadians it was a good game.

If I'm ever in Suomi for a WJC, I'll send you a PM and we'll go grab a beer .

Alright I'll wait for it

I've truly learned the value of D-zone exits this year thanks to Bruins and team Finland.
What an impact it has, the ability to get out of your own zone with speed and create chances.

We had just 16 shots today and about 5 scoring chances, way too foten our forwards were just standing when the got the puck and there's no way you can walk past that defense.

 

[ijuka]

Canada's forecheck and defensive system kind of forced us into that. It took too long to break out from our end and once we got to the neutral zone, their defense was too well set up at the blueline to attempt anything else but a chip or a dump in. If we tried to enter the zone from the wing or center it lead to us turning over the puck many times.

This is because the opening game is too weak to forechecking, the first pass is too weak, the support isn't close enough, the forwards are standing still -> no momentum. The first D had the puck taken from him due to taking too long or had to make a panic choice way too often.

The reason why it caused turnovers was because the first pass to a forward was with the forward standing still. The entire system was just not functional. And it's not like a proper basic outline for a functional offensive system is that complicated - Pass to center going full speed with the wingers, then he either passes or doesn't. I'm slightly simplifying here, but this of course is nowhere near what we saw.

Hungary caused massive issues to Finland with their forechecking. Hungary.

 

[BL92]

How about working on how to use the PP? First few games it went perfect - then for no reason change it. Not to mention how passive his gameplan is overall. Bad coach - happy to get rid of.

Okay, maybe not the most optimal coach. I'm just paralleling him with JJ, who I didn't really like.

What style of play will Marjamäki introduce?

 

[Gsus]

I love Sasha but what the hell happened to him? Seems like he didn't fully recover from the flu.

It may have been a concussion. That's what I heard. But if they told the media he's having a concussion Dave Tallon would've arrived to Moscow with a helicopter and a full army of panthers.

 

[BL92]

It may have been a concussion. That's what I heard. But if they told the media he's having a concussion Dave Tallon would've arrived to Moscow with a helicopter and a full army of panthers.

I think his dad gave a hint like that. I really hope he is okay and will be in the team next year.

 

[ijuka]

Okay, maybe not the most optimal coach. I'm just paralleling him with JJ, who I didn't really like.

What style of play will Marjamäki introduce?

"I think Kari Jalonen was fine"

"What style of play will Marjamäki introduce"?

Really, the only people I see who like Kari Jalonen's play style seem to be ones like this who do not understand coaching.

Anyway, Marjamäki plays a modern puck controlling style which is extremely well known.

 

[BL92]

"I think Kari Jalonen was fine"

"What style of play will Marjamäki introduce"?

Really, the only people I see who like Kari Jalonen's play style seem to be ones like this who do not understand coaching.

Anyway, Marjamäki plays a modern puck controlling style which is extremely well known.

I was asking for a more analytical take on Marjamäki, perspectives. I know the basics and what he is about.

 

[Snaibberi]

Most obvious weaknes in KJ gameplan is the inability to change gameplay during the game. He kept rolling same lines and in same order no matter what. It was obvious that some players didn’t play well and some did but still he did nothing. Rantanen was good in those few seconds he was in the rink. Third line was having a very bad day and still they kept playing even in the last few minutes.

And what about the last minutes? No time out until 8 secs left, pulled goalie away 45 secs before the end etc.

Second PP was bad from the start of the tournament. First moved Pulkkinen in front of the goal, then took him out entirely and but Koskiranta in who by the way was very bad in PP. There was no one to shoot the puck in that PP, but hey lets not use Pulkkinen because he didn’t score goals in the fourth line.

Rantanen and Pulkkinen must have pissed his beer or something.