2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KINGS17]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/03/29/a-challenging-offseason-awaits-dean-lombardi/

Kopitar should look in the mirror. He is one of the dead horses.

Click to read more...

 

[KINGS17]

Perhaps Kopitar can't take up $10m in cap space if he needs someone on his line to help him do better than barely cracking double digit goals.

Not fair to put everything on one guy, but he is now the franchise thanks to that contract. It, along with other contracts, will prevent whoever the GM is from bringing in any established help. Not that it hasn't been this way before, but this team will now sink or swim based on what he does in a given year. He can't not score. His 16 goal season? Missed the playoffs. His 11 goal season? Missed the playoffs. His 10 goal season? Well the Kings actually averaged the 2nd highest gpg since they got good again in 09-10 during the 2013 season, and were 10th overall in the league too.

It's not fair, but he's the guy.

It's completely fair. During the negotiations Lombardi said they weren't even in the same ballpark. Kopitar and his agent insisted on getting the $10M cap hit. Now it's his team.

Obviously others have to contribute, but the idea of him needing established stars on his wings to produce offense is ludicrous given his salary.

 

[damacles1156]

It's completely fair. During the negotiations Lombardi said they weren't even in the same ballpark. Kopitar and his agent insisted on getting the $10M cap hit. Now it's his team.

Obviously others have to contribute, but the idea of him needing established stars on his wings to produce offense is ludicrous given his salary.

Physically he does,

Kopitar is no longer 18 or even 26 years of age. So Kopitar does need more help on the wings as he gets older.

Which is why, once again, you don't sign 29+ year old players to Eight year deals, for HIGH cap hits.

At this point, Crosby/Kane/EK/Doughty/OVI are really the only guys I think would warrant a deal like Kopitar got.

I wouldn't even give Malkin a deal like that.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Crosby was one of the best players in the league playing with Kunitz and Dupouis. All this crap about kopitar and his line mates is bs.

 

[KINGS17]

Physically he does,

Kopitar is no longer 18 or even 26 years of age. So Kopitar does need more help on the wings as he gets older.

Which is why, once again, you don't sign 29+ year old players to Eight year deals for HIGH cap hits.

Yep. Dean took a pretty strong stance in the begining of the negotiation then wilted. Very disappointing.

Dean can't afford to get Kopitar help at this juncture given the contracts he handed out to Gaborik and Brown. I think, if Dean wants to keep the band together one more season, he needs to move Muzzin or Martinez for a top notch young forward on an ELC.

Good luck finding that deal though. It has to be a kid who hasn't broken through yet that will do so next year or the year after. Beyond that and I fear we may hit the expiration date on our box of Kopitar, if we haven't already.

 

[damacles1156]

Kopitar can still be productive, he simply is going to need help down the road here.

Pairing him with someone like Brodzinski would help, Brodz Shoots the puck A LOT, kid is also speedy and BIG.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Physically he does,

Kopitar is no longer 18 or even 26 years of age. So Kopitar does need more help on the wings as he gets older.

Which is why, once again, you don't sign 29+ year old players to Eight year deals, for HIGH cap hits.

The only question at the time of the signing was, what other option was there?

 

[KINGS17]

The only question at the time of the signing was, what other option was there?

Trade him!

Dean should have been looking to force him to sign a reasonable deal the summer after the Kings missed the playoffs in 2015. If he didn't want to, then you move him.

It sucks, but the assets returned in a trade would have benefited the Kings in the future tremendously. Dean didn't recognize it, but the run was over.

 

[bob77]

Yep. Dean took a pretty strong stance in the begining of the negotiation then wilted. Very disappointing.

Dean can't afford to get Kopitar help at this juncture given the contracts he handed out to Gaborik and Brown. I think, if Dean wants to keep the band together one more season, he needs to move Muzzin or Martinez for a top notch young forward on an ELC.

Good luck finding that deal though. It has to be a kid who hasn't broken through yet that will do so next year or the year after. Beyond that and I fear we may hit the expiration date on our box of Kopitar, if we haven't already.

Or a team loaded with top 6 type forwards, but absolutely horrible D.

 

[lexlavender]

Trade him!

Dean should have been looking to force him to sign a reasonable deal the summer after the Kings missed the playoffs in 2015. If he didn't want to, then you move him.

It sucks, but the assets returned in a trade would have benefited the Kings in the future tremendously. Dean didn't recognize it, but the run was over.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yep. Dean took a pretty strong stance in the begining of the negotiation then wilted. Very disappointing.

But Kopitar was a UFA. He had time on his side.

Dean can't afford to get Kopitar help at this juncture given the contracts he handed out to Gaborik and Brown.

Those two are of course being paid to be Kopitar's help. The reason they got Gaborik in the first place was because Brown's offense disappeared weeks after signing his big contract. Then Gaborik/Kopitar/Brown was the 1st line as the Kings won their 2nd Cup. Gaborik worked so well that Lombardi then re-signed him. He then had a really good 14-15 season, and has been basically invisible since.

 

[KINGS17]

Hindsight is 20/20.

It wasn't hindsight for some of us, it was foresight.

 

[KINGS17]

But Kopitar was a UFA. He had time on his side.



Those two are of course being paid to be Kopitar's help. The reason they got Gaborik in the first place was because Brown's offense disappeared weeks after signing his big contract. Then Gaborik/Kopitar/Brown was the 1st line as the Kings won their 2nd Cup. Gaborik worked so well that Lombardi then re-signed him. He then had a really good 14-15 season, and has been basically invisible since.

True, but you don't give someone needing help a $10M cap hit contract for 8 seasons.

By the time Kopitar received his deal it wasn't like the writing wasn't on the wall regarding Brown and Gaborik.

I think what we are both saying here is the Kings lack the components of a championship caliber team. Signing Kopitar to a $10M cap hit deal only made the odds of getting those components worse.

Dean should have recognized this and moved on.

 

[CowMix]

Gaborik looked pretty good in the World Cup before the season, but hes 35 now and has always had an injury problems so the decline is pretty predictable.

Trading Kopitar instead of resigning him is a pretty crazy idea and there no way it would have ever actually happen.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Trade him!

Dean should have been looking to force him to sign a reasonable deal the summer after the Kings missed the playoffs in 2015. If he didn't want to, then you move him.

It sucks, but the assets returned in a trade would have benefited the Kings in the future tremendously. Dean didn't recognize it, but the run was over.

Yet again for the Kings, the timing would have worked out badly for Lombardi there. Kopitar was coming off a full season career low in goals, he was a UFA in a year, and everyone figured he would get some monster contract. Plus people in the know would know contract negotiations got ugly. Who knows what the possible assets brought back would've been, but that's not selling high. Selling high would've been trading Kopitar in June of 2014, along with an additional handful of players on this team. Back then is when you trade Muzzin and Martinez. Back then is when you trade Carter. Certainly Williams should've been dealt then. His value could never be higher than current Conn Smythe winner with a year left.

 

[CowMix]

Yet again for the Kings, the timing would have worked out badly for Lombardi there. Kopitar was coming off a full season career low in goals, he was a UFA in a year, and everyone figured he would get some monster contract. Plus people in the know would know contract negotiations got ugly. Who knows what the possible assets brought back would've been, but that's not selling high. Selling high would've been trading Kopitar in June of 2014, along with an additional handful of players on this team. Back then is when you trade Muzzin and Martinez. Back then is when you trade Carter. Certainly Williams should've been dealt then. His value could never be higher than current Conn Smythe winner with a year left.

No one does this though, its not realistic, contenders don't trade away core members of a team that just won a cup.

The Blackhawks are the standard to look at here as they were constantly forced to retool due to the cap, but they never traded Toews. They gave him a big contract and were still able to stay competitive even when he struggled.

 

[AmadiosAmigos]

Just wanting some feedback gang...

I know the ideal of trading Muzzin/Martinez would be a young ELC winger + a pick, or something similar. It doesnt seem like WE can dream up any scenarios, but you never know what other GMs are willing to offer.

Of everything thrown around, what Ive liked the most is the thought of Henrique + for Muzzin. Any substance to this? Would we all feel comfortable in a trade like this happening?

What are we willing to give up to get 1 of Brown/Gaborik off the books without buying them out and without retaining preferably.

Reading the thread there seems to be a lot of people noting the funk, the stalemate, but how creative are we willing to get. Im all for a youth movement around the core.

Can we get rid of Clifford? Andreoff is RFA but do we even offer him back?

XXX - Kopitar - Brodzinski
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Kempe - Dowd - Brown
Lewis - Shore - Mersch
Nolan

Im fine with something like this but would others be? Or some assortment. Im willing to let the kids have full reign, it cant get worse. As a longtime Leaf hater in the heart of Leafland, I have to admit watching the kids has been exciting.

There's been multiple signings and trades that in hindsight set us back (Sekera trade, Lucic trade, Gabby/Brown signings, Richards non buyout, Voynov disaster) but we gotta look forward. At this point, Im excited to see how creative they really can get.

 

[KingsFan7824]

True, but you don't give someone needing help a $10M cap hit contract for 8 seasons.

By the time Kopitar received his deal it wasn't like the writing wasn't on the wall regarding Brown and Gaborik.

I think what we are both saying here is the Kings lack the components of a championship caliber team. Signing Kopitar to a $10M cap hit deal only made the odds of getting those components worse.

Dean should have recognized this and moved on.

I would think you're correct with the first sentence, but I just don't think there's a GM that would've done that. I don't think there's a GM that wouldn't have signed Gaborik after the 2014 playoffs either. Bowman signed Bickell after his great 2013 playoff, where he was 2nd on the Hawks in playoff points, and tied with Patrick Kane for playoff goals. Not as bad as Gaborik, but still, everyone's favorite cap purge GM signed a hot playoff guy who never lived up to the contract.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Trade him!

Dean should have been looking to force him to sign a reasonable deal the summer after the Kings missed the playoffs in 2015. If he didn't want to, then you move him.

It sucks, but the assets returned in a trade would have benefited the Kings in the future tremendously. Dean didn't recognize it, but the run was over.

Kopitar + Gaborik to Vegas for their #1.
Muzzin, Amadio, + our #1 to Colorado for Duchene

Get out of 2 bad contracts, rid of aging, declining players and add enough cap to
re-sign Toffoli and Pearson. Will draft 1 of: Patrick, Hischier, Tippett or Vilardi.

Oh, and Kopi can get his 2 new wingers in vegas from expansion fodder. Retiire Sutter to his farm. Futa GM.

Wouldn't ideally want to deal Amadio, but chances of him being a #2 center, iffy.
Would rather keep Kempe. Whomever stated here the other day that the AVs do not want Muzzin. Untrue, they wanted him as part of package and not straight up for Landeskog. They wanted Kempe or Ladue added.

 

[damacles1156]

You would be trading Muzzin, coming off a career worst season....

Why would any GM give up a high pick (of which not many were traded, even in a **** poor draft pool), Also give up a stud young NHL ready prospect that can score, or a roster player of that caliber. Also cost controlled guys, for Muzzin coming off a career worst year, Muzzin is also 28 years of age.

Why ?

 

[KingsFan7824]

No one does this though, its not realistic, contenders don't trade away core members of a team that just won a cup.

That's what I'm saying. If we're trading Kopitar though, the time to do it wasn't at the deadline last year, or the summer after a career low in goals with 1 year left before being a UFA. The only time to trade Kopitar to maximize his value before having to sign him to a huge contract, it turns out, was June of 2014. Like you said, nobody was thinking about trading Kopitar in June of 2014.

Trading him right after the Cup would've been along the lines of Branch Rickey though, because he did end up having a career low season in goals the following year, and then you couldn't trade him at full value. A year too early rather than a year too late. Imagine if Bettman had walked up to the podium at the 2014 draft to say we have a trade, and the Kings have traded Anze Kopitar to...

 

[CowMix]

You would be trading Muzzin, coming off a career worst season....

Why would any GM give up a high pick (of which not many were traded, even in a **** poor draft pool), Also give up a stud young NHL ready prospect that can score, or a roster player of that caliber. Also cost controlled guys, for Muzzin coming off a career worst year, Muzzin is also 28 years of age.

Why ?

Defenseman are more valuable than forwards so you might be able to lie and convince an opposing GM that has an abundance of offense and lack of defense that this season is a fluke for Muzzin. Tell them that the Kings issues as a whole dragged down his numbers and not the other way around. We all saw what Hall got traded for.

 

[KINGS17]

No one does this though, its not realistic, contenders don't trade away core members of a team that just won a cup.

The Blackhawks are the standard to look at here as they were constantly forced to retool due to the cap, but they never traded Toews. They gave him a big contract and were still able to stay competitive even when he struggled.

The Kings hadn't just won a cup. They had just missed the playoffs.

 

[KINGS17]

Yet again for the Kings, the timing would have worked out badly for Lombardi there. Kopitar was coming off a full season career low in goals, he was a UFA in a year, and everyone figured he would get some monster contract. Plus people in the know would know contract negotiations got ugly. Who knows what the possible assets brought back would've been, but that's not selling high. Selling high would've been trading Kopitar in June of 2014, along with an additional handful of players on this team. Back then is when you trade Muzzin and Martinez. Back then is when you trade Carter. Certainly Williams should've been dealt then. His value could never be higher than current Conn Smythe winner with a year left.

All the more reason to not give him a monster contract. Well, that and his age.

 

[Elvs]

Andreoff. Two assists, no goals in 33 games. He can play both wing and center, but so can Kempe. He's been our extra forward most often.

Thanks for the response. It's been a couple of years since Andreoff last played an AHL game though. I've decided to go with the guys who saw most time in the NHL this season.

I checked dailyfaceoff, but with injuries and daily line juggeling things get tricky to grasp.

Right now I'm going with:

Brown - Kopitar - Iginla
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Gaborik - Dowd - Lewis
Clifford - Shore - Nolan

Forbort - Doughty
Muzzin - Gravel
McNabb - Martinez

Quick
Bishop

*Andreoff, Setoguchi, Greene healthy scratches.


Does this give a fair summarising picture of the Kings lineup this season?