2016-17 Minnesota Wild General Discussion

[Lapa]

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[57special]

My problem with the team is this. What evidence does Fletcher have to assume that staying the course will result in a different outcome from previous years? Losing Vanek and adding Staal is a wash, IMO. Stewart? Meh.

It's the same old improve from within, but who do we really have on our roster that is going to break out this year, and counteract the inevitable decline of our older forwards?

Also don't see an approach to dealing with the expansion draft, unless throwing our hands in the air and saying there is nothing for it but to lose a top 4 Dman is our approach. Same sort of lack of thought that Yeo had about the 3 on 3 last year.

BB could well Net us a couple more wins, but not enough to win us a Cup, IMO. We simply don't have the talent up front.

If I'm not completely clear, this is a criticism leveled at Fletcher. He seems to think that staying more or less the same as a team is going to net better results. I don't see how he can think that. This team has plateaued as a borderline playoff team. Our best players ( Koivu, Parise, Suter) are NOT getting better, our young players, while decent, are not game breakers, and our prospects, when compared to the prospects of other teams( I.e. WPG), are mediocre.

How can this recipe produce anything but mid table results?

I have been positive in the past about the Wild's chances at the beginning of every year, but have lost confidence in the direction of the team.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Vanek is so lazy it's addition by subtraction.

Staal makes it so we have roughly a 40-50pt center and Granlund/Coyle can play the wing, where Coyle broke out last year and we all hope Granlund breaks out this year.

Stewart is a 4th liner that actually adds size and grit.

As for the expansion draft, what should we do? Trade two defensemen? We are still going to lose a decent player in that situation. If we don't trade a dman then we will still have a great top 4 for when Vegas picks one of the big 5. Not to mention Reilly shows potential to be a good NHLer.

 

[P10p]

My problem with the team is this. What evidence does Fletcher have to assume that staying the course will result in a different outcome from previous years? Losing Vanek and adding Staal is a wash, IMO. Stewart? Meh.

It's the same old improve from within, but who do we really have on our roster that is going to break out this year, and counteract the inevitable decline of our older forwards?

Also don't see an approach to dealing with the expansion draft, unless throwing our hands in the air and saying there is nothing for it but to lose a top 4 Dman is our approach. Same sort of lack of thought that Yeo had about the 3 on 3 last year.

BB could well Net us a couple more wins, but not enough to win us a Cup, IMO. We simply don't have the talent up front.

If I'm not completely clear, this is a criticism leveled at Fletcher. He seems to think that staying more or less the same as a team is going to net better results. I don't see how he can think that. This team has plateaued as a borderline playoff team. Our best players ( Koivu, Parise, Suter) are NOT getting better, our young players, while decent, are not game breakers, and our prospects, when compared to the prospects of other teams( I.e. WPG), are mediocre.

How can this recipe produce anything but mid table results?

I have been positive in the past about the Wild's chances at the beginning of every year, but have lost confidence in the direction of the team.

You ask that question and then you follow it up by saying "imo" quite a bit in your own post. Well you basically answered your own question. Its your opinion, not CFs opinion.

Also you can't compare yourself against the Jets, basically 25 teams look mediocre next to their prospect pool. And you say Koivu and Suter are not getting better? Well, considering they both had career years, one could say you're wrong.

 

[Minnesota]

Vanek is so lazy it's addition by subtraction.

Staal makes it so we have roughly a 40-50pt center and Granlund/Coyle can play the wing, where Coyle broke out last year and we all hope Granlund breaks out this year.

It's ironic you say this...

Vanek literally scored 52 points in 14-15 and 41 points in 15-16.

Meanwhile, Staal scored 33 points in 63 games with Carolina, then got traded to the Rangers where he produced at an abysmal 24 PPG pace.

I was never a big Vanek fan, but I'm fully expecting a drop in production from Staal. Hopefully Granlund's move to wing boosts his point production 20+ points, otherwise the Vanek buyout/Staal acquisition was pointless.

 

[Digitalbooya]

It's ironic you say this...

Vanek literally scored 52 points in 14-15 and 41 points in 15-16.

Meanwhile, Staal scored 33 points in 63 games with Carolina, then got traded to the Rangers where he produced at an abysmal 24 PPG pace.

I was never a big Vanek fan, but I'm fully expecting a drop in production from Staal. Hopefully Granlund's move to wing boosts his point production 20+ points, otherwise the Vanek buyout/Staal acquisition was pointless.

33 points in 63 games = 43 points per 82 games. Which is in line with what I said he would be as a center. Which was on a terrible Hurricanes team. He played left wing for the Rangers.

Did you just not watch Vanek in the d-zone? It's pretty hard to miss how lazy he actually was/is. That can rub off on other (younger) players. Do not want that around my team.

 

[Al Lagoon]

I douby very much that Vanek was "lazy." Not following the gameplan to a t does not equal laziness.

I sure as **** wouldn't wanna small his pads at the end of the game.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I douby very much that Vanek was "lazy." Not following the gameplan to a t does not equal laziness.

I sure as **** wouldn't wanna small his pads at the end of the game.

Not playing defense is laziness.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Not playing defense is laziness.

Not being adept at something does not equal not doing/trying. Does that mean Porter was lazy for not playing offense?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Not being adept at something does not equal not doing/trying. Does that mean Porter was lazy for not playing offense?

Fine, Vanek is so terrible in the d-zone it's addition by subtraction. Same concept.

Also, Porter was paid league minimum and was a 4th line grinder. Vanek was making over $6m and expected to produce offensively and be tolerable defensively.

 

[Marlowe Syn]

I'm with Digitalbooya on the Vanek debate. He was an inconsistent in effort(pc for lazy), with games of brilliance. Staal is a forward upgrade based solely on position of need. I'm not expecting a 70 point center in him any more, but he doesn't come with the red flags to me like Vanek did. Plus he frees up both Granny and hopefully Coyle to play positions they are better at. That in turn I think makes us a better team. I'm going into this season a heckuva more confident in this team & coaching staff than I did a year ago.

I can't seem to find anything, but I thought I got a phone notification that Olofsson's injured again? Closed it prematurely, I was a work, before I could read it later. Is he becoming Cuma 2.0?

 

[BagHead]

I can't seem to find anything, but I thought I got a phone notification that Olofsson's injured again? Closed it prematurely, I was a work, before I could read it later. Is he becoming Cuma 2.0?

Yeah, knee injury. Sounds like it won't be a long term injury, but it will take him out of the tournament (and maybe pre-season?). While I want to be an optimist and say it's not so bad, and that this injury isn't long term, his propensity to accumulate injuries at such a young age is a bit troubling to me. He sure feels like Cuma 2.0. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's missed about the same amount of games to this point that Cuma did.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Yeah, knee injury. Sounds like it won't be a long term injury, but it will take him out of the tournament (and maybe pre-season?). While I want to be an optimist and say it's not so bad, and that this injury isn't long term, his propensity to accumulate injuries at such a young age is a bit troubling to me. He sure feels like Cuma 2.0. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's missed about the same amount of games to this point that Cuma did.

Except he was a 2nd rounder and Cuma was a 1st.

If it's injuries Fiala 2.0 would be the more appropriate comp.

Kid is just 21 - plenty of time for him to develop into something.

 

[nickschultzfan]

My problem with the team is this. What evidence does Fletcher have to assume that staying the course will result in a different outcome from previous years? Losing Vanek and adding Staal is a wash, IMO. Stewart? Meh.

It's the same old improve from within, but who do we really have on our roster that is going to break out this year, and counteract the inevitable decline of our older forwards?

Also don't see an approach to dealing with the expansion draft, unless throwing our hands in the air and saying there is nothing for it but to lose a top 4 Dman is our approach. Same sort of lack of thought that Yeo had about the 3 on 3 last year.

BB could well Net us a couple more wins, but not enough to win us a Cup, IMO. We simply don't have the talent up front.

If I'm not completely clear, this is a criticism leveled at Fletcher. He seems to think that staying more or less the same as a team is going to net better results. I don't see how he can think that. This team has plateaued as a borderline playoff team. Our best players ( Koivu, Parise, Suter) are NOT getting better, our young players, while decent, are not game breakers, and our prospects, when compared to the prospects of other teams( I.e. WPG), are mediocre.

How can this recipe produce anything but mid table results?

I have been positive in the past about the Wild's chances at the beginning of every year, but have lost confidence in the direction of the team.

This is mostly my thoughts as well.

I have been a very patient Wild fan since the beginning, and actually really like Fletcher (and even Yeo). I think he is a very good young GM. I see the dumpster fires that is other franchises, and I am very glad that is not us. However, Fletcher and many others are too close to the situation to realize that the Wild's current plan isn't working.

The problem is that instead of having a 1st line offensive center (or even a 2nd great top-6 center) and a goal-scoring RW, we've had a 6+ year revolving door of quickly-declining vets.

Havlat. Cullen. Heatley. Setoguchi. Pominville. Vanek. Stewart. And now Staal.

That's eight (8!) band-aids (and I am sure I am missing somebody).

Something has got to change.

 

[57special]

This is mostly my thoughts as well.

I have been a very patient Wild fan since the beginning, and actually really like Fletcher (and even Yeo). I think he is a very good young GM. I see the dumpster fires that is other franchises, and I am very glad that is not us. However, Fletcher and many others are too close to the situation to realize that the Wild's current plan isn't working.

The problem is that instead of having a 1st line offensive center (or even a 2nd great top-6 center) and a goal-scoring RW, we've had a 6+ year revolving door of quickly-declining vets.

Havlat. Cullen. Heatley. Setoguchi. Pominville. Vanek. Stewart. And now Staal.

That's eight (8!) band-aids (and I am sure I am missing somebody).

Something has got to change.

I think it's quite telling that we have no one on the under 23 NA team.

Even if we have to take a step back in order to take a step forward, something has to change. I simply don't think that Tuch, Kunin, or Ek are going to be good enough to counteract the decline of Pominville, Parise, Koivu, and Staal( formerly Vanek). Remember, we don't need to tread water, but actually improve before we can compete for the ultimate prize.

I would also repeat that I don't see any evidence that Fletcher has a plan to deal with the expansion draft beside accepting that we have to lose a good young Dman for nothing. That makes us worse us a team compared to teams that will lose their 8 th best forward of backup goalie.

 

[DANOZ28]

while we can say atleast CF tried with those bandaid / retreads he didnt hit any homers. i think we have a good core group but we're missing a #1 stud C & a #1 RW. as for rw if pommer doesnt improve we still have hope coyle or tuch can stepup. as for #1C kunin & jee are nowhere near the point we can tell if they can fill that position. im sure cf looks at staal as a stop gap for a couple years but dang im disappointed we couldnt swing a deal for a #1C. ps if people dont believe my 2nd pick trade deadline rumors why dont you go back & search russo articles the day after and see for yourself. cheers!

 

[GuerinUp]

I think it's quite telling that we have no one on the under 23 NA team.

Even if we have to take a step back in order to take a step forward, something has to change. I simply don't think that Tuch, Kunin, or Ek are going to be good enough to counteract the decline of Pominville, Parise, Koivu, and Staal( formerly Vanek). Remember, we don't need to tread water, but actually improve before we can compete for the ultimate prize.

I would also repeat that I don't see any evidence that Fletcher has a plan to deal with the expansion draft beside accepting that we have to lose a good young Dman for nothing. That makes us worse us a team compared to teams that will lose their 8 th best forward of backup goalie.

I dont get where you get the idea that fletch is just going to sit on his hands with our players and just let people leave. Hes made trades his entire tenure here.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think it's quite telling that we have no one on the under 23 NA team.

Even if we have to take a step back in order to take a step forward, something has to change. I simply don't think that Tuch, Kunin, or Ek are going to be good enough to counteract the decline of Pominville, Parise, Koivu, and Staal( formerly Vanek). Remember, we don't need to tread water, but actually improve before we can compete for the ultimate prize.

I would also repeat that I don't see any evidence that Fletcher has a plan to deal with the expansion draft beside accepting that we have to lose a good young Dman for nothing. That makes us worse us a team compared to teams that will lose their 8 th best forward of backup goalie.

So trade Dumba and/or Scandella and/or Spurgeon and/or Brodin for who to make us better now and in the future?

 

[57special]

So trade Dumba and/or Scandella and/or Spurgeon and/or Brodin for who to make us better now and in the future?

Will make us worse in the present, hopefully better in the future. It is a gamble that could turn on us, but a necessary one, I think. The Wild need to "reload". The Parise, Suter, Koivu, Pominville window is closed, or at the very least, closing, and we have no equivalent talent to replace them. No one will trade us top tier forwards ( our main need), but they might trade us potential top tier talent in the form of draft picks or prospects.

There are no sure things, or everyone would do it.

I grew up watching Sam Pollock work his magic on the league as he manageD MTL to decades of excellence. One of his specialties was trading off players for young picks/ prospects a year or two BEFORE their decline. That way he could maximize his return, and save salary. While he treasured Dmen, he ALWAYS had at least one great scoring forward duo.

I would argue that we don't have even one top scorer. Parise used to be a decent ( not top) one.

 

[DrPP]

Another thing that led to the #1C blues is the how draft and acquired prospects didn't pan out (Granlund shifted to wing, Coyle shifted to wing, Phillips complete bust). It has taken a lot of failure for the Wild to still not have a #1C with Fletcher at the helm this long.

With the NTCs, the Wild can't go into rebuild mode so basically everything is riding on JEE or Kunin becoming a bonafide #1C. If they don't, the Wild are mediocre until the end of Parise/Suter contracts.

 

[57special]

I don't think that Coyle was ever projected to be a top scorer. Agree that Phillips should have been here and contributing to the top 9 at least.

Like I said, it's not easy. That's why I roll my eyes at eat overating of draft picks. Unless there is a McDavid, Lemieux, Perrault, or Lafleur coming down the pipeline then it's always chancey. That's why you need

- a GREAT scouting staff

- a lot of draft picks. Some will work out, some won't. It's not that it's a great system, it's that it's usually the only way to get top talent( see below).

- a GREAT GM, who has the balls and knowledge( provided by his GREAT scouting staff)on a rare trading opportunity when it is presented, I.e Seguin....perhaps Drouin last year, or even RNH for Dumba( though I have doubts that was actually ever a trade)?


Does anyone think that this team has a chance to win the Cup as presently constructed?

 

[DANOZ28]

while miracles can happen they are rare. this team lack talent / star power. it doesnt mean we cant get hot , but its very unlikely we knock off 4 tuff teams & bring home the cup. (as is). also as other have pointed out our vets will be in decline as our new group of young guns start contributing. man if we could have drafted forsberg & larkin how good would this team be?

 

[Saga of the Elk]

If the Wild should happen not to win the Cup this season - and I think we know they will be in tough to make the playoffs - what really condemns Fletch in my opinion is this:

For the 2017-18 season, there are only 27 contracts and already 60 million dollars committed. Guys who will need contracts next season: Kuemper/Stalock (or an equivalent NHL backup), Nino, Granny, Haula, Reilly (possibly), Folin (possibly). Who gets lost from that group thanks to cap mismanagement?

Guys like Gelinas and Brassart and Gudbranson will walk I imagine...guys who were mostly ECHLers all of last season on ELCs. Assume that Kunin signs and a Pominville buyout is almost a given - how is anyone going to improve this team?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Question: Can unsigned RFAs be taken in the expansion draft?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

For the 2017-18 season, there are only 27 contracts and already 60 million dollars committed. Guys who will need contracts next season: Kuemper/Stalock (or an equivalent NHL backup), Nino, Granny, Haula, Reilly (possibly), Folin (possibly). Who gets lost from that group thanks to cap mismanagement?

Parise (7.539) - Staal (3.5) - Coyle (3.2)
Granlund (~4.5*) - Koivu (6.75) - Tuch (.925)
Nino (~4.5*) - Haula (~3.5*) - Pommer (5.6)
Zucker (2) - Graovac (.625) - Stewart (1.15)
Extra (.75)
Buyouts (2.5)

Total: 47.039

Suter (7.539) - Spurgeon (5.188)
Scandella/Brodin (~4.1) - Dumba (2.55)
Reilly (~1*) - Folin (.75)
Extra (.75)

Total: 21.887

Dubnyk (4.333)
Stalock (.75)

Total: 5.083

Grand Total: $74M

*Estimated

Of course, I could be wrong on Nino's, Granlund's and Haula's contracts, but unless one of them absolutely blows up this year, this is what I would expect on longer term deals. And it's also not going to do very much for anybody expecting major changes after the year.