2016-17 Blues Discussion Thread Part II

[2 Minute Minor]

To be fair, I've heard a number of rumors that Spezza wouldn't waive his NTC for us, I still think Anisimov is a 2C/3C tweener away from Kane, The Avs probably had no interest trading O'Reilly in-division, and Zibanejad/Brassard were traded for each other.

I'd add an asterisk to Galchenyuk as well, because I don't think Montreal is sold on him yet. It is so freaking hard to get a legit 1C/2C tweener outside of the draft.

The Stastny signing really was critical for this team. Even though we'd love to have a guy better than that, he is in a position of need. Its also the reason that Armstrong took a chance and re-signed Lehtera to the optimistic (and now painful) deal that he did.

 

[Oberyn]

To be fair, I've heard a number of rumors that Spezza wouldn't waive his NTC for us, I still think Anisimov is a 2C/3C tweener away from Kane, The Avs probably had no interest trading O'Reilly in-division, and Zibanejad/Brassard were traded for each other.

I'd add an asterisk to Galchenyuk as well, because I don't think Montreal is sold on him yet. It is so freaking hard to get a legit 1C/2C tweener outside of the draft.

There were reports where Spezza said his preferred trade destination was St. Louis.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

There were reports where Spezza said his preferred trade destination was St. Louis.

Yeah this is what I remembered. I could be wrong, but I thought Spezza was almost forcing Ottawa to trade him to St. Louis. Reports coming out that he nixed deals to go to other cities and the only two destinations left were Dallas and St. Louis.

 

[carter333167]

To those commenting on the Miller trade, I remember thinking at the time that Armstrong got nervous and jumped the gun on that trade.....was thinking if he had just waited a few more days and held firm to a 2nd instead of a first (obviously still including Stewart and Halak), that the Sabres would have taken the second.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

To those commenting on the Miller trade, I remember thinking at the time that Armstrong got nervous and jumped the gun on that trade.....was thinking if he had just waited a few more days and held firm to a 2nd instead of a first (obviously still including Stewart and Halak), that the Sabres would have taken the second.

Yeah, I dont' know who he was bidding against. But I also viewed Stewart as a negative value asset at the time too.

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah this is what I remembered. I could be wrong, but I thought Spezza was almost forcing Ottawa to trade him to St. Louis. Reports coming out that he nixed deals to go to other cities and the only two destinations left were Dallas and St. Louis.

This is correct. He vetoed a trade to Nashville.

 

[Bye Felicia]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but what about our third UFA? Does Upshall come back?

 

[simon IC]

I have mentioned Upshall a couple of times. I see no harm in re-signing him for another year. He provides a bit of speed, sandpaper and intensity to our 4th line. ( Which, btw, I think is one of the best 4th lines in the NHL). What complicates things a bit with him is the ED.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but what about our third UFA? Does Upshall come back?

I'd certainly be interested in re-signing Upshall for about his current price. Can he get a better offer somewhere else? Who knows. But I'd like to see him return ideally.

 

[tfriede2]

Not sure if I should put this here or in the Prospects thread, but JR had something very interesting (and perhaps disappointing/concerning) to say in his chat today:

He said Dunn is passing Schmaltz and Lindbohm on the depth chart and could be in STL next year (that's good), but that Schmaltz is fading as a prospect...that surprised me. I thought that those who have watched Schmaltz around here have been happy with his play? He seems to be producing nicely, so is he just not improving defensively? This seems like a shocker (to me, at least) because many of us were slotting Schmaltz into the 3rd pairing and a guy who would replace Shattenkirk (not his production, of course, but his slot in the lineup) next year. So what gives?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I noticed the same thing. Surprised me quite a bit to be honest.

 

[Alklha]

Readig what JR said, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. He "thinks" Dunn has passed Schmaltz "and perhaps Lindbohm". From the 5 or 6 games I've seen of the Wolves in the last few months, it's crazy to say Lindbohm is better than Schmaltz.

Dunn has certainly shown enough to say that he has the highest upside, but that's different from being the best right now.

 

[tfriede2]

Readig what JR said, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. He "thinks" Dunn has passed Schmaltz "and perhaps Lindbohm". From the 5 or 6 games I've seen of the Wolves in the last few months, it's crazy to say Lindbohm is better than Schmaltz.

Dunn has certainly shown enough to say that he has the highest upside, but that's different from being the best right now.

My concern is that JR rarely speculates based on his own opinion - he's getting this information (IMO) from Blues brass. He doesn't watch Wolves games.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Dunn is just a great player, nothing too shocking there. Schmaltz has been playing first-pairing with Butler for most of the season, so there *is* a bit of a Pietrangelo-Shattenkirk relationship between the two of them, where one's production is coming off the back of the other's complete play. However, to say that Dunn will be the first call-up sort of ignores the whole lefty-righty thing, and it's clear that when (if?) Shatty goes away that the 3RHD spot will be up for open competition between Bortz/Schmaltz, but the LD spots will be harder to compete for. Bortuzzo is pretty well understood to be our 7th D. You can't say the same thing (out of necessity) of any of Bouwmeester, Edmundson, or Gunnarsson (for better or worse). It's the same reason why Lindbohm can't escape Chicago despite being NHL-ready. Their spots are locked down, unless Dunn can outperform one of them in camp, and I wouldn't put that out of the question. But as of now, given the current state of affairs, I'd say Schmaltz has the easier path to the NHL of the two of them within the next year.

 

[carter333167]

Dunn is just a great player, nothing too shocking there. Schmaltz has been playing first-pairing with Butler for most of the season, so there *is* a bit of a Pietrangelo-Shattenkirk relationship between the two of them, where one's production is coming off the back of the other's complete play. However, to say that Dunn will be the first call-up sort of ignores the whole lefty-righty thing, and it's clear that when (if?) Shatty goes away that the 3RHD spot will be up for open competition between Bortz/Schmaltz, but the LD spots will be harder to compete for. Bortuzzo is pretty well understood to be our 7th D. You can't say the same thing (out of necessity) of any of Bouwmeester, Edmundson, or Gunnarsson (for better or worse). It's the same reason why Lindbohm can't escape Chicago despite being NHL-ready. Their spots are locked down, unless Dunn can outperform one of them in camp, and I wouldn't put that out of the question. But as of now, given the current state of affairs, I'd say Schmaltz has the easier path to the NHL of the two of them within the next year.

If Schmaltz can't outplay Borts next year, we are in trouble...at least for those few minutes every night where Petro and Parayko aren't on the ice.

 

[Alklha]

My concern is that JR rarely speculates based on his own opinion - he's getting this information (IMO) from Blues brass. He doesn't watch Wolves games.

He suggested that Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz, that simply won't be true on any criteria (whether we're talking upside, ability now or chances of being on the roster next season). I don't believe for a second that he's hearing that from anyone in the organisation.

Saying that Dunn is ahead of them could be from within the organisation, but it could very easily be a misunderstanding. For example, ask who is the best prospect? It's Dunn, that doesn't mean he is the closest to the NHL roster, but JR could take it that way.

The fact he suggests Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz is enough to disregard everything apart from that he is hearing that we are really high on Dunn.

 

[tfriede2]

He suggested that Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz, that simply won't be true on any criteria (whether we're talking upside, ability now or chances of being on the roster next season). I don't believe for a second that he's hearing that from anyone in the organisation.

Saying that Dunn is ahead of them could be from within the organisation, but it could very easily be a misunderstanding. For example, ask who is the best prospect? It's Dunn, that doesn't mean he is the closest to the NHL roster, but JR could take it that way.

The fact he suggests Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz is enough to disregard everything apart from that he is hearing that we are really high on Dunn.

I mean, Schmaltz and Lindbohm were both products of the 2012 draft, yet Lindbohm has played in 38 NHL games compared to 0 for Schmaltz. It's not ridiculous to state that Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz on the depth chart, no? Although there could be a misunderstanding as to what JR was referring to - depth chart, or who is the "better" prospect? I will ask him in his next chat - I'm curious if he feels that Schmaltz has a small chance of becoming an NHL regular, or if Dunn has simply passed everyone up on the back end (perhaps similar to how Edmundson passed all the LHD).

Edit: I do realize that there was a bigger opening on the LHD for Lindbohm 2 years ago, yet that opening doesn't really exist for Schmaltz.

 

[STL fan in MN]

He suggested that Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz, that simply won't be true on any criteria (whether we're talking upside, ability now or chances of being on the roster next season). I don't believe for a second that he's hearing that from anyone in the organisation.

Saying that Dunn is ahead of them could be from within the organisation, but it could very easily be a misunderstanding. For example, ask who is the best prospect? It's Dunn, that doesn't mean he is the closest to the NHL roster, but JR could take it that way.

The fact he suggests Lindbohm is ahead of Schmaltz is enough to disregard everything apart from that he is hearing that we are really high on Dunn.

I didn't interpret it that way at all. JR said that Dunn has passed Schmaltz and probably Lindbohm too. I read that as him talking about Dunn passing Lindbohm, not Lindbohm passing Schmaltz.

In any event, JR doesn't watch these guys but yeah, he probably got this perception of Schmaltz "drifting" from someone within the Blues' org so it's certainly interesting and something I'll take note of.

Dunn has the higher upside but I'd say Schmaltz is easily the more NHL ready of the two and he's a righty so that helps him a bit once Shatty is gone.

 

[tfriede2]

I didn't interpret it that way at all. JR said that Dunn has passed Schmaltz and probably Lindbohm too. I read that as him talking about Dunn passing Lindbohm, not Lindbohm passing Schmaltz.

In any event, JR doesn't watch these guys but yeah, he probably got this perception of Schmaltz "drifting" from someone within the Blues' org so it's certainly interesting and something I'll take note of.

Dunn has the higher upside but I'd say Schmaltz is easily the more NHL ready of the two and he's a righty so that helps him a bit once Shatty is gone.

I won't speak for Alkha, but I believe he interpreted JR's quote as saying that because Dunn has passed Schmaltz, and because Dunn has "probably" passed Lindbohm (meaning, it seems like it's more debatable as to whether he's passed Lindbohm, but more certain that he's passed Schmaltz) then it appears that JR views the order as Dunn > Lindbohm > Schmaltz.

But in any event, some clarification from JR and the reasoning behind is views should be sought out during the next chat.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Might as well get the next thread running while there is a lull.

Closed.