Prospect Info: 2015 Ranking #10

[Ivan13]

The point being that when Matt Gilroy is a top end defensemen in the league... it isn't a very good league.

It is a league that has its warts, there's no denying it and guys that usually don't do well in the NHL because of a number of reasons can be world beaters in the KHL, it has all to do with the skill set of the player in question. I've seen a lot of smallish KHL players who dominate the KHL, but I don't think they'd translate well to the NHL. Gilroy's game is tailor made for the KHL and he excels because this league is more focused on skill rather than on banging and physicality.

As for Mironov, I think he would be a better player than both Holden and Guenin right now because a number of things. His game will translate well to the NHL, he plays a very NA type of a game, very much in face, doesn't mind doing the dirty jobs, hits, agitates, kills penalties, but most importantly he reads the game well, he won't chase a hit for the sake of making a hit (something Yemelin is guilty of doing), but if you get your head down he'll send you flying. He understands that you have to read the play and mind the gap control, I see a guy that understand what it takes to defend, he does have some warts to his game like most young D-men, you will catch him doing a bit of puck watching, but not to a degree where it is a major red flag, he is usually really assertive. I see him as a potential top 4 defensive d-men who can make plays with the puck, I said it before and I'll say it again, he reminds me of Kaspar a bit.

 

[henchman21]

It is a league that has its warts, there's no denying it and guys that usually don't do well in the NHL because of a number of reasons can be world beaters in the KHL, it has all to do with the skill set of the player in question. I've seen a lot of smallish KHL players who dominate the KHL, but I don't think they'd translate well to the NHL. Gilroy's game is tailor made for the KHL and he excels because this league is more focused on skill rather than on banging and physicality.

As for Mironov, I think he would be a better player than both Holden and Guenin right now because a number of things. His game will translate well to the NHL, he plays a very NA type of a game, very much in face, doesn't mind doing the dirty jobs, hits, agitates, kills penalties, but most importantly he reads the game well, he won't chase a hit for the sake of making a hit (something Yemelin is guilty of doing), but if you get your head down he'll send you flying. He understands that you have to read the play and mind the gap control, I see a guy that understand what it takes to defend, he does have some warts to his game like most young D-men, you will catch him doing a bit of puck watching, but not to a degree where it is a major red flag, he is usually really assertive. I see him as a potential top 4 defensive d-men who can make plays with the puck, I said it before and I'll say it again, he reminds me of Kaspar a bit.

I'm not speaking bad of Mironov at all (I haven't seen him enough to form a good opinion)... just saying that some pretty poor NHL and even some average AHL players do REALLY well in the KHL. So being an all star over there has to be taken with a grain of salt IMO. It is impressive for a kid his age to do it and is a good sign, but it doesn't signal to me that he is better than _____. Being on the Russian WC team means more to me than his KHL all star selection. Especially how he carved out a role on the team over more experienced players.

 

[maxim84]

Mironov was on the second line..which means journalist's choice. First lines are chosen by fans and third by the league I think based on statistics

 

[Ivan13]

I'm not speaking bad of Mironov at all (I haven't seen him enough to form a good opinion)... just saying that some pretty poor NHL and even some average AHL players do REALLY well in the KHL. So being an all star over there has to be taken with a grain of salt IMO. It is impressive for a kid his age to do it and is a good sign, but it doesn't signal to me that he is better than _____. Being on the Russian WC team means more to me than his KHL all star selection. Especially how he carved out a role on the team over more experienced players.

I didn't think you were and I agree with all of your points.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Need some more votes on who to add.

 

[Avsboy]

Butcher. Add Martinsen.

 

[dahrougem2]

Surprised Rendulic hasn't gotten more love. I really like his game. He's got the toolbox, just has to figure out how to use all the tools properly. Big body, speed, hits, fantastic release/shot, good hands. I think he's going to surprise at training camp

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think Rendulic will get voted in fairly soon, we just aren't through the prospects with big upside yet.

 

[cgf]

Add Henley or Martinsen in case I haven't posted that yet.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Well, I was saying that the KHL All Star Game teams aren't of a very high level, but I guess I should keep in mind that he only just turned 21. It's a weird situation altogether.

This past year 10 of the 12 Dmen selected were top12 in scoring. And I'm recognizing a handful of the forwards (I don't follow the KHL at all, only recognize the top names). Seems like the the best players were selected and it's the 2nd best league in the world. If we are going to downplay this honor then we would have to do the same for every single league that prospects are a part of.

The point being that when Matt Gilroy is a top end defensemen in the league... it isn't a very good league.

It's still the second best league in the world. That point is brought up for every single player thay plays in the KHL. Why are we down playing that now? Sure, it's not the NHL, but it's still better than anything else.

 

[UncleRisto]

All I was saying is that the All Star selection in itself doesn't mean much at all when it comes to immediate NHL impact. Not when players who have no business being in the NHL were also selected. I didn't like the way that the All Star selection was being talked about in a few posts here.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

All I was saying is that the All Star selection in itself doesn't mean much at all when it comes to immediate NHL impact. Not when players who have no business being in the NHL were also selected. I didn't like the way that the All Star selection was being talked about in a few posts here.

All it does is point to his talent level, not his NHL impact (with how young he is it could suggest that he might be immediately ready if he were to come over now). Just because these other players have no business in the NHL doesn't mean they are not talented players. Their talent just doesn't fit the NHL style. how well someone translate's to the NHL is another argument, one which I kind of ignore because every single prospect is coming from a different league and has questions about how well they will carry their game over to the NHL. All we can hope for is that our prospects show to be one of the best players in their current league.

But when you mix in the fact that he is more of a throw back stay at home defensive minded Dmen with good size and physicality (instead of smaller skilled, finesse guy) and the fact that numerous posters have mentioned how NHL ready he is and how well his game will translate to the NHL, well, I'm not too worried about his NHL impact. These new rumors about Russia have me worried he might not make it here though, but I'm not going to downgrade him for that, just like I won't downgrade college players (With how many college players test the market I'm afraid of losing our guys).

 

[henchman21]

All I was saying is that the All Star selection in itself doesn't mean much at all when it comes to immediate NHL impact. Not when players who have no business being in the NHL were also selected. I didn't like the way that the All Star selection was being talked about in a few posts here.

Yep... on top of that all star games in general as shams. Even the NHL all star game is a joke. You can't convince me that Halak is better than Varly because he was an all star.

Mironov's WC performance is far more impressive than his all star selection. Even that should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Need more votes guys, we were doing so well.

 

[Tru]

Add Hamilton

 

[henchman21]

Need more votes guys, we were doing so well.

Let me vote twice!

 

[UncleRisto]

Need more votes guys, we were doing so well.

Can't you mods just rig the polls if they're too slow?

 

[Nihiliste]

Mironov
Greer
Rendulic
Martin
Butcher
Beaudin
Nantel

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Yep... on top of that all star games in general as shams. Even the NHL all star game is a joke. You can't convince me that Halak is better than Varly because he was an all star.

Mironov's WC performance is far more impressive than his all star selection. Even that should be taken with a grain of salt.

Just because Varly is better doesn't mean Halak didn't have a good season and isn't talented (he has shown to be a legit starter, which can't be said about some starters). And Halak only made it because 3 other goalies couldn't/chose not to go. And they play in different conferences, so it's not like Varly could have been picked instead of him.

Shouldnt most things regarding prospects be taken with a grain of salt? Greer's (for example since he is the leader of this poll) potential should be taken with a grain of salt because he is so raw and so far away from even scratching that potential. And some people like to point to his increase in production when moved to the top 6 despite that production still being very low and a limited number of games in said role. People want to talk about how much a few scouts liked him, but that should be taken with a grain of salt as well. Scouts are wrong all the time. Why are these things ok to judge Greer on but it's not ok to use Mironov's all star selection?

 

[henchman21]

Just because Varly is better doesn't mean Halak didn't have a good season and isn't talented (he has shown to be a legit starter, which can't be said about some starters). And Halak only made it because 3 other goalies couldn't/chose not to go. And they play in different conferences, so it's not like Varly could have been picked instead of him.

Shouldnt most things regarding prospects be taken with a grain of salt? Greer's (for example since he is the leader of this poll) potential should be taken with a grain of salt because he is so raw and so far away from even scratching that potential. And some people like to point to his increase in production when moved to the top 6 despite that production still being very low and a limited number of games in said role. People want to talk about how much a few scouts liked him, but that should be taken with a grain of salt as well. Scouts are wrong all the time. Why are these things ok to judge Greer on but it's not ok to use Mironov's all star selection?

I can use a metric crap ton more examples if you don't like the Halak/Varly one. All star games are a total joke. Jamie Benn didn't make it this past year, neither did Pavelski.. You can't tell me that RNH is better than either one of them, nor was he playing better. All star games are fan service... nothing more.

Placement on a team that is selected to win a short tournament should be a taken with a grain of salt, but it should be given a lot more credence than an exhibition game that is only fan service. That is because a player that gets selected to a WC team obviously has a skill that the coaches deem desirable and useful in a situation to win games that matter. The fact that he not only got selected, but earned a meaningful spot in the lineup is impressive and shows that there is something there. Still that team had Belov on it in at least as big of a role. Belov, quite frankly sucks... so just because Mironov made the team and did well doesn't mean he can step on to NHL ice and play meaningful minutes right now. It is possible he could, but it wouldn't be because of his WC experience, it would be because of his skill set.

A player's skill set, what they do on the ice, physical talent, work ethic, etc is what matters... so no Greer's attributes shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, they should be what he is judged on (and if you don't like his skill set or his ability to reach his potential, then don't vote for him). All players should be judged on those... Bigras is a great prospect because of the type of player he is and his skill set. He isn't less of a prospect because he didn't make the WJC team this past season, and he wouldn't have been more of a prospect if he did make the team. Is Bigras less of a NHL prospect than Joe Hicketts because Hicketts was on the WJC team that Bigras didn't make?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Can't you mods just rig the polls if they're too slow?

We are far too responsible and honest for that. What do you think we are, politicians???

 

[UncleRisto]

We are far too responsible and honest for that. What do you think we are, politicians???

I know that because you made a poll in the Lounge one time to make fun of someone who just so happens to not visit the Lounge anymore and put like a hundred on the one option.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Didn't someone mention how Mironov was 2nd line, which is voted on by the journalists? That's a little more than just popularity. Of course All-Star games are fan service and not perfect, but typically the best (always exceptions) players make it regardless of who votes. And just because there might be better options doesn't mean the player selected isn't any good. Whoever makes it is going to be a talented player.

Doesn't every team have to have a selection? Isn't that why RNH made it? But, like someone pointed out, that's not why Mironov was picked. He wasn't just his team's selections.

I never said anything about the WC. Definitely never said an All-Star selection would mean more. Really not sure what you are arguing here. Honestly I had completely forgotten about this fact.

I never said anything about his readiness either, other than pointing out that other posters who have watched him have said he would be ready now. I wasn't using his all-star selection to say he is NHL ready. It's a good sign, but nothing more than that.

I never said anything about Greer's attributes. Potential is not an attribute. It's a futuristic projection based on attributes that still need to be developed. Scouts opinions are just that, an opinion. Someone's role is important (I wouldn't call it an attribute) but it's not like his production sky rocketed. McLeod would get some time with the top players and he would usually produce a little more when he was moved up there. So, yeah, that should be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, you are right, skill set...... Work ethic, etc are what matter. I've never seen the guy (or read much about him) though so can't comment on his skill set really other than the generalizations being reported. But the fact that he was an all star selection (and played WC) is a sign that he has a good skill set, showed good on the ice and has enough physical talent to be one of the best players in the 2nd best league in the world.

All I'm saying is that All Star = talent (and not just potential talent, but talent that is already being exhibited).

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I know that because you made a poll in the Lounge one time to make fun of someone who just so happens to not visit the Lounge anymore and put like a hundred on the one option.

I was "having fun with" him, not "making fun of" him.
And if I recall correctly, that particular poll option would have won anyway, even without the unexplainable glitch in the results.

And, to be on-topic, looks like Greer ran away with this one.

 

[UncleRisto]

I was "having fun with" him, not "making fun of" him.
And if I recall correctly, that particular poll option would have won anyway, even without the unexplainable glitch in the results.

And, to be on-topic, looks like Greer ran away with this one.

You made fun of those poor guys and now they're all upset because you did it again. You big meanie!

Also, it's getting kind of difficult to vote soon when we have to choose from a) long-shots b) busthishons c) 4th line prospects.