2015 NHL Draft Prospect Discussion - Solidy in the top 10. (Two first rounders.)

[Bullseye]

I don't think there is any grounds to step in. Buffalo is pretty bulletproof on the issue. None of them have mentioned tanking, and Nolan has publicly said to the players to play hard, plus he's not making coaching moves that are suspect. But the kicker is that Neuvirth IS a UFA, and not only is he a UFA but he's one who was playing well. All Buffalo has to do is argue that he's playing so well that he's playing himself into a position where he's just going to go to the highest bidder, and Buffalo can argue they have little chance at actually signing. Plus I'd argue that they could argue that signing him to a contract that he's earning would hurt them long term by not being able to have the ability to sign their young players long term. Thus trade Neuvirth for a pick (and he's a backup on the Islanders, they wouldn't pay much for him).

Fans can be pissed about it all they want, but Buffalo has done all the right moves to properly be bad and not get in trouble for it. There is little the NHL could do.

Thanks. Still urks me bigtime.

Any chance they maybe trade their 2nd 1st on draft day for a guy like Bernier? They need a goalie.

 

[theIceWookie]

Interesting Qoutes by respected hockey people.

I agree with the thoughts on Hanifin.

I don't really agree with the idea that Strome could become a Johansen. I don't think Strome really has the physicality that Johansen has.

I like Strome but I just still have issues with his...intensity. I think it's lacking. I could be wrong (and I'll readily admit it if that is the case) but I just don't see it right now.

 

[theIceWookie]

Thanks. Still urks me bigtime.

Any chance they maybe trade their 2nd 1st on draft day for a guy like Bernier? They need a goalie.

No idea, but we shouldn't be trading Bernier for a late first anyways

It irks me but whatever, it's life. It happens.

 

[one77]

I agree with the thoughts on Hanifin.

I don't really agree with the idea that Strome could become a Johansen. I don't think Strome really has the physicality that Johansen has.

I like Strome but I just still have issues with his...intensity. I think it's lacking. I could be wrong (and I'll readily admit it if that is the case) but I just don't see it right now.

Agreed. Don't see why people here love Strome (obviously because of his size). He might become something decent, or even something good, but I just don't see top end potential.

McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin and Marner are way ahead of him on my depth chart.

 

[SprDaVE]

No idea, but we shouldn't be trading Bernier for a late first anyways

It irks me but whatever, it's life. It happens.

I wouldn't trade Bernier for less then what the Devils paid to trade for Schneider.

It would take at least a top 15 pick in the 2015 draft for me to consider trading Bernier or a top prospect type. I don't want quantity packages like a 2nd and prospect... I want a top half first round pick or an "A" prospect.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree with the thoughts on Hanifin.

I don't really agree with the idea that Strome could become a Johansen. I don't think Strome really has the physicality that Johansen has.

I like Strome but I just still have issues with his...intensity. I think it's lacking. I could be wrong (and I'll readily admit it if that is the case) but I just don't see it right now.

Marner and Strome are a contrast in styles. One is more dynamic, the other is more methodical. I don't think a team can go wrong with either player. It depends on what type of player one is looking for. Strome is going to be a heck of a PP player, he has terrific vision, and if the Leafs make the transition from a rush team to more of one generating office from offensive zone time(trying not to say cycle) then Strome is the man. Marner is electric, I can see why he has a huge following here. He's dynamic in everything he does. Now you know me, I do not think size is a limitation to a player, but having too many small guys in your top 6 is dangerous. You could end up like the Oilers. You need a mix. Now saying that, we have no idea how this Leafs team will look this summer after moves are made. So one will be a contrast in what type of team we are building.

As for Hanifan, he is probably the only player I would take in front of a Center this draft. He could probably step in the line up next year. His Hockey IQ is extraordinary that I think he could just jump in next season. He's going to be one heck of a player. We probably won't get him unless we make it to 3.

 

[Bullseye]

Agreed. Don't see why people here love Strome (obviously because of his size). He might become something decent, or even something good, but I just don't see top end potential.

McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin and Marner are way ahead of him on my depth chart.

His skating stood out as being incredibly heavy-footed and slow in the Prospects game.

Compared to Marner he was a barge beside a speedboat but... they guy knows how to put up points in the OHL.

 

[613Leafer]

Provorov is scoring at a higher rate than Jones, Murray, Rielly, Dumba, Morrissey, Hickey, Barker, Myers, Pouliot, etc as WHL highly drafted dmen.

Plus he's a smart two-way player, so not just an OFD. Id prefer Hanifan over him, but Provorov (and Werenski) are both very impressive D prospects.

 

[Teeder9]

Agreed. Don't see why people here love Strome (obviously because of his size). He might become something decent, or even something good, but I just don't see top end potential.

McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin and Marner are way ahead of him on my depth chart.

Or people like him because he's got ridiculous offensive potential at the most important offensive position. Can say what you want about him playing with McDavid, which he doesn't do game in and game out anyway, but even when McDavid was injured he scored at at 100 point pace. He might have his wrinkles, but so does Marner.

 

[Bullseye]

Provorov is scoring at a higher rate than Jones, Murray, Rielly, Dumba, Morrissey, Hickey, Barker, Myers, Pouliot, etc as WHL highly drafted dmen.

Plus he's a smart two-way player, so not just an OFD. Id prefer Hanifan over him, but Provorov (and Werenski) are both very impressive D prospects.

This is my gut feeling guy - best d-man in the draft potentially. We need him more than peeps realize.

@ 6-7 I take Provy and feel lucky getting him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Provorov is scoring at a higher rate than Jones, Murray, Rielly, Dumba, Morrissey, Hickey, Barker, Myers, Pouliot, etc as WHL highly drafted dmen.

Plus he's a smart two-way player, so not just an OFD. Id prefer Hanifan over him, but Provorov (and Werenski) are both very impressive D prospects.

Speaking of Matthew Dumba, he has had a very good season this year.

Ryan Suter, who plays the second-most minutes of any NHL defenceman behind Drew Doughty, is sitting beside Dumba in the Wild dressing room.

Yeo has seen a major improvement in Dumba since his short Wild audition last season.

“His progress this year has been very steady. I’m quite pleased he’s come along as quickly as he has,†said Yeo. “It’s obviously a different game in junior than the NHL. In junior, you can get away with more and he had the ability to go all the time.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Form...teady+with+Minnesota+Wild/10840027/story.html

 

[613Leafer]

This is my gut feeling guy - best d-man in the draft potentially. We need him more than peeps realize.

@ 6-7 I take Provy and feel lucky getting him.

Im almost tempted to lean towards him over Strome at this point. It really is tough, because we obviously NEED a centre, and a big skilled centre would be a fantastic addition.

But the PPG difference for Strome when McDavid was on the team vs when McDavid was injured is quite striking. He might not be that elite offensive threat that his numbers suggest (which are Hall, Seguin, RNH, Stamkos, etc level), and instead might be closer to the Duchene, B. Schenn, Johansen, Couturier, etc calibre centre prospects. Some of which see their offense translate, and some of which don't.

Anyways, Strome is who Id want at 5 right now. But I wouldnt be disappointed with Provorov.

 

[weems]

Provorov is scoring at a higher rate than Jones, Murray, Rielly, Dumba, Morrissey, Hickey, Barker, Myers, Pouliot, etc as WHL highly drafted dmen.

Plus he's a smart two-way player, so not just an OFD. Id prefer Hanifan over him, but Provorov (and Werenski) are both very impressive D prospects.

Stats are nice but not even close to everything when analyzing 16-18 year old prospects. You're basically projecting what these kids will develop into 6-8 years down the road and thus looking at the overall skillset of a prospect is very important. So many different factors come into play when looking at junior players (quality of team, quality of linemates, which league OHL, WHL, Q) that getting caught too much into stats can get dangerous.

Take Travis Konecny for example. He's a 5'10 sub 170lb offensive player. His lack of goals/points this season (62 pts in 57 games) although not awful, certainly not nearly as good as you'd expect from a guy who you'd be drafting in the first round mostly based on his offence and his projection isnt that elite. Whereas a guy like Zacha who has a much more all around skillset and ceiling, you prolly dont concern yourself as much with the lack of point totals (in 30 games nontheless) and analyze the skillset and trust the projection. Jacob Trouba was a perfect example of a guy that didnt put up great offensive numbers leading into his draft but the skillset was there to develop (good skater, decent hands, good shot).

Strome's point totals look amazing but when I watch him play I just leave underwhelmed for some reason (dont like his skating, seems to have slow reaction time, doesnt consistently play with fire). People will think its crazy as of today but Pavel Zacha has a good chance to be a better player than Strome 6 years down the road.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Tor 1st: Provorov
Nash 1st: Dergachyov

Just to see Don's reaction on coach's corner

I'm on board with that. I also wouldn't mind going Zacha and Dergachyov. Two behemoth centres with offensive upside to go with our smaller skilled wings.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I agree with the thoughts on Hanifin.

I don't really agree with the idea that Strome could become a Johansen. I don't think Strome really has the physicality that Johansen has.

I like Strome but I just still have issues with his...intensity. I think it's lacking. I could be wrong (and I'll readily admit it if that is the case) but I just don't see it right now.

100% agree.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I wouldn't trade Bernier for less then what the Devils paid to trade for Schneider.

It would take at least a top 15 pick in the 2015 draft for me to consider trading Bernier or a top prospect type. I don't want quantity packages like a 2nd and prospect... I want a top half first round pick or an "A" prospect.

This draft is deeper than most years though. A pick in the 20-30 range this year might be as good as a pick in the 10-20 range most years.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Stats are nice but not even close to everything when analyzing 16-18 year old prospects. You're basically projecting what these kids will develop into 6-8 years down the road and thus looking at the overall skillset of a prospect is very important. So many different factors come into play when looking at junior players (quality of team, quality of linemates, which league OHL, WHL, Q) that getting caught too much into stats can get dangerous.

Take Travis Konecny for example. He's a 5'10 sub 170lb offensive player. His lack of goals/points this season (62 pts in 57 games) although not awful, certainly not nearly as good as you'd expect from a guy who you'd be drafting in the first round mostly based on his offence and his projection isnt that elite. Whereas a guy like Zacha who has a much more all around skillset and ceiling, you prolly dont concern yourself as much with the lack of point totals (in 30 games nontheless) and analyze the skillset and trust the projection. Jacob Trouba was a perfect example of a guy that didnt put up great offensive numbers leading into his draft but the skillset was there to develop (good skater, decent hands, good shot).

Strome's point totals look amazing but when I watch him play I just leave underwhelmed for some reason (dont like his skating, seems to have slow reaction time, doesnt consistently play with fire). People will think its crazy as of today but Pavel Zacha has a good chance to be a better player than Strome 6 years down the road.

The way I look at points is how they compare to other players on the same team.

Strome's points totals are amazing, only Mcdavid is better PPG wise. I think this fares well for him. Same with Marner, Dvorak and Domi who is probably bored are behind him.

People knock Crouse's numbers but he plays for a low scoring team. He is still #2 on the team in scoring, so one must use some common sense when they evaluate numbers. If he played for Erie or London, those numbers go up substantially.

All 3 are going to be impact players in the NHL IMO. Regardless of how their points totals look this year compared to each other.

 

[Bernier the Boats]

The way I look at points is how they compare to other players on the same team.

Strome's points totals are amazing, only Mcdavid is better PPG wise. I think this fares well for him. Same with Marner, Dvorak and Domi who is probably bored are behind him.

People knock Crouse's numbers but he plays for a low scoring team. He is still #2 on the team in scoring, so one must use some common sense when they evaluate numbers. If he played for Erie or London, those numbers go up substantially.

All 3 are going to be impact players in the NHL IMO. Regardless of how their points totals look this year compared to each other.

So then where would you pick Crouse?

 

[91Kadri91*]

The way I look at points is how they compare to other players on the same team.

Strome's points totals are amazing, only Mcdavid is better PPG wise. I think this fares well for him. Same with Marner, Dvorak and Domi who is probably bored are behind him.

People knock Crouse's numbers but he plays for a low scoring team. He is still #2 on the team in scoring, so one must use some common sense when they evaluate numbers. If he played for Erie or London, those numbers go up substantially.

All 3 are going to be impact players in the NHL IMO. Regardless of how their points totals look this year compared to each other.

Marner has a better PPG than Strome.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

So much talk of Strome over Marner because of size but IMO when you're picking with that high of a pick you go with the guy who has the most skill. The way I see it there are no holes in Marner's skill set. Skating, vision, finishing ability, Passing, smart defensively and most importantly his never quit attitude. He has all this and only downfall is size. People have issues with Strome's skating and his drive. I realize he is a different player and is probably more methodical in his movements but IMO Marner has more overall skills and compete and we shouldn't pass on him. Same with last year's draft I would take Bennett over Draisaitl all day. Leafs need a lot of overall skill as well as high compete levels for obvious reasons.

A second point I would mention is if we are picking 6th/7th I would take Provorov/Werenski over someone like Barzal. My reasoning is that Provorov and Werenski look like they're most likely going to be top pairing Dmen while in Barzal I have seen some people say Barzal might end up being a 2C much like I feel Nugent-Hopkins I think would be a 2C on a lot of good teams.

I would consider it a successful draft if say we finish with the 4th overall and selected Marner and then managed to get someone like Colin White/ Meier/ Carlo with a second 1st

 

[WilliamNylander]

Thoughts on moving NSH 1st + our 6th overall pick for 4th/5th overall?

(assuming McDavid, Eichel, Hannifin taken 1,2,3)

 

[LaPlante94]

So much talk of Strome over Marner because of size but IMO when you're picking with that high of a pick you go with the guy who has the most skill. The way I see it there are no holes in Marner's skill set. Skating, vision, finishing ability, Passing, smart defensively and most importantly his never quit attitude. He has all this and only downfall is size. People have issues with Strome's skating and his drive. I realize he is a different player and is probably more methodical in his movements but IMO Marner has more overall skills and compete and we shouldn't pass on him. Same with last year's draft I would take Bennett over Draisaitl all day. Leafs need a lot of overall skill as well as high compete levels for obvious reasons.

A second point I would mention is if we are picking 6th/7th I would take Provorov/Werenski over someone like Barzal. My reasoning is that Provorov and Werenski look like they're most likely going to be top pairing Dmen while in Barzal I have seen some people say Barzal might end up being a 2C much like I feel Nugent-Hopkins I think would be a 2C on a lot of good teams.

I would consider it a successful draft if say we finish with the 4th overall and selected Marner and then managed to get someone like Colin White/ Meier/ Carlo with a second 1st

When you have 2 very good players in Marner and Strome to decide over, you choose the player who plays the position we need the most and lack in our prospect pool. This is why we should take Strome.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Thoughts on moving NSH 1st + our 6th overall pick for 4th/5th overall?

(assuming McDavid, Eichel, Hannifin taken 1,2,3)

Nope not even close... Stick with our picks

 

[613Leafer]

Stats are nice but not even close to everything when analyzing 16-18 year old prospects. You're basically projecting what these kids will develop into 6-8 years down the road and thus looking at the overall skillset of a prospect is very important. So many different factors come into play when looking at junior players (quality of team, quality of linemates, which league OHL, WHL, Q) that getting caught too much into stats can get dangerous.

Take Travis Konecny for example. He's a 5'10 sub 170lb offensive player. His lack of goals/points this season (62 pts in 57 games) although not awful, certainly not nearly as good as you'd expect from a guy who you'd be drafting in the first round mostly based on his offence and his projection isnt that elite. Whereas a guy like Zacha who has a much more all around skillset and ceiling, you prolly dont concern yourself as much with the lack of point totals (in 30 games nontheless) and analyze the skillset and trust the projection. Jacob Trouba was a perfect example of a guy that didnt put up great offensive numbers leading into his draft but the skillset was there to develop (good skater, decent hands, good shot).

Strome's point totals look amazing but when I watch him play I just leave underwhelmed for some reason (dont like his skating, seems to have slow reaction time, doesnt consistently play with fire). People will think its crazy as of today but Pavel Zacha has a good chance to be a better player than Strome 6 years down the road.

I never suggested stats were everything. There are plenty of red flags you can point out that can raise questions on somebodies numbers. When it comes to red flags with provorov though:

Is Provorov small? No
Is Provorov bad defensively? No
Does Provorov play with 2-3 guys in the top 10-20 in scoring to boost his stats? No
Is Provorov a bad skater? No

He's putting up some of the best offensive numbers we've seen from a WHL dmen over the past 10 years, and he's doing it while not having any major red flags to his game. Smart good skating two-way dman that can move the puck.

I never suggested point totals are everything. But it's definitely a good sign, especially when given the context of the lack of major red flags.

 

[Menzinger]

It would be a dream come true if the team manages to grab Hanifin this year - by far the most exciting to layer outside of the top two.

Also really don't have ANY interest in trading picks to either move up or back in the draft. Let's just draft where the tem lands.