2015-2016 Minnesota Wild Discussion II
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nickschultzfan
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I am higher on Folin and lower on Dumba than most. I don't care about draft position or flair. Dumba is obviously more threatening in the Ozone, but both players have ridic heavy, accurate shots that get on net and Folin makes smart decisions. Folin doesn't skate like Dumba, but his puck-movement is smarter. In the defensive zone, Folin is superior, although he needs to handle the size of the NHL better.
I also think there is a reason there are very few risky offensive Dmen in the NHL. It is a very steep fall down the latter. You are PK Subban, or a #4 point machine, or a #6 PP specialist. If you notice, the best point producing Dmen are also elite puck-movers, which Dumba is not. Making an attempt at a home-run pass =/= effective puck-moving. Smart decisions = effective puck-moving.
Brodin is Brodin, so obviously you don't just give away a poor man's Lidstrom.
I also think there is a reason there are very few risky offensive Dmen in the NHL. It is a very steep fall down the latter. You are PK Subban, or a #4 point machine, or a #6 PP specialist. If you notice, the best point producing Dmen are also elite puck-movers, which Dumba is not. Making an attempt at a home-run pass =/= effective puck-moving. Smart decisions = effective puck-moving.
Brodin is Brodin, so obviously you don't just give away a poor man's Lidstrom.
nickschultzfan
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tomgilbertfan
#WhyBother
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^ I see it somewhere else... 
NSF I think you're overrating Folin. I don't see much more than a bottom pair guy outta him.
NSF I think you're overrating Folin. I don't see much more than a bottom pair guy outta him.
Minnewildsota
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nickschultzfan
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Fletcher and Russo agree with me.^ I see it somewhere else...
NSF I think you're overrating Folin. I don't see much more than a bottom pair guy outta him.
Let me know how many 6'3" right shot Dmen skate, shoot, and move the puck as well as he does. The guy jumped from the NCAA to the NHL easily. He is a late bloomer and has plenty to work on but he is both smart and has the tools.
If you think he tops out at a bottom pairing guy you probably thought the same about Scandella - who is just now scratching the surface of his potential after 5 years in the NHL.
I wouldn't call it easily when he spent so much time not playing.
Easily is Brodin going from the SEL to the top pairing with the Wild.
Not saying that I think he tops out as a bottom pairing D-man, just saying he is MUCH less of a sure thing than Dumba is at this point. Dumba has already proven he can take over games at the NHL level, when Folin hasn't even proven he can play regularly yet.
Easily is Brodin going from the SEL to the top pairing with the Wild.
Not saying that I think he tops out as a bottom pairing D-man, just saying he is MUCH less of a sure thing than Dumba is at this point. Dumba has already proven he can take over games at the NHL level, when Folin hasn't even proven he can play regularly yet.
Maybe someone can clear this up for me, but I'm honestly confused by the reasoning behind why Yeo supposedly can't take the veterans off the powerplay.
As CF had mentioned at the fair, removing the vets would create "WWIII" largely because it would come off as an insult to those same players who got you to the point you were (AKA the playoffs and a great 2nd half of the season).
Russo adds to this comment (on his podcast) by saying that these vets have egos, who like normal human beings, are invested in the game emotionally. That there is seemingly this hierarchical dominance in the locker room, that if disturbed, would result in tremors affecting the locker room dynamic and perhaps even the play of the team itself.
Here's where I'm confused (and please, if someone knows more about this or cares to clarify I'd greatly appreciate it):
1) Using the sentiment that the vets are somehow owed #1PP time because they've brought the team to where it was.
--- All I have to say to this is, well... what about when these same vets aren't getting the job done in games they are losing, and especially when they've failed miserably at the PP multiple times in the same game. Yeo himself speaks to the general frustration of the PP when things aren't clicking, why not use different players if these vets are so frustrated?
And while, granted, Kuemper was a key reason why our first half was very mediocre, don't these same vets, the one's who "get you to where you are", also at fault for not producing?
2) Regarding the point of the ego of our vets and their emotional investment.
--- This could be a grand simplification I take on this particular subject, but if this is indeed true, I would question the vets motivation of being properly invested in the team.
You mean to tell me that these vets (and it seems Koivu, Pominville, and Suter are mentioned most by Russo FWIW), the ones that are so emotionally involved in the game, wouldn't be elated if Zucker or Nino got the lion's share of a PP which resulted in a GTG or GWG (as an example)? You mean to tell me that the ego of these athletes goes above and beyond seeing the team succeed, especially if their own attempt has failed?
Am I completely off base here, or is this really as glaringly confusing as it seems?
PS. Sorry for the long post.
As CF had mentioned at the fair, removing the vets would create "WWIII" largely because it would come off as an insult to those same players who got you to the point you were (AKA the playoffs and a great 2nd half of the season).
Russo adds to this comment (on his podcast) by saying that these vets have egos, who like normal human beings, are invested in the game emotionally. That there is seemingly this hierarchical dominance in the locker room, that if disturbed, would result in tremors affecting the locker room dynamic and perhaps even the play of the team itself.
Here's where I'm confused (and please, if someone knows more about this or cares to clarify I'd greatly appreciate it):
1) Using the sentiment that the vets are somehow owed #1PP time because they've brought the team to where it was.
--- All I have to say to this is, well... what about when these same vets aren't getting the job done in games they are losing, and especially when they've failed miserably at the PP multiple times in the same game. Yeo himself speaks to the general frustration of the PP when things aren't clicking, why not use different players if these vets are so frustrated?
And while, granted, Kuemper was a key reason why our first half was very mediocre, don't these same vets, the one's who "get you to where you are", also at fault for not producing?
2) Regarding the point of the ego of our vets and their emotional investment.
--- This could be a grand simplification I take on this particular subject, but if this is indeed true, I would question the vets motivation of being properly invested in the team.
You mean to tell me that these vets (and it seems Koivu, Pominville, and Suter are mentioned most by Russo FWIW), the ones that are so emotionally involved in the game, wouldn't be elated if Zucker or Nino got the lion's share of a PP which resulted in a GTG or GWG (as an example)? You mean to tell me that the ego of these athletes goes above and beyond seeing the team succeed, especially if their own attempt has failed?
Am I completely off base here, or is this really as glaringly confusing as it seems?
PS. Sorry for the long post.
This is what I mean. Some of our players are really that fragile?
I guess I just don't understand the concept of competitive egos in a team setting...
gphr513
Watch the world burn
I thought this was the point of having a team full of such high character guys; their egos wouldn't get in the way.
If they want to stay on the top unit they should ****ing produce like a top unit.
Try the kids, and if they fail, then yeah sure go back to the vets, but at least give the kids a chance.
If they want to stay on the top unit they should ****ing produce like a top unit.
Try the kids, and if they fail, then yeah sure go back to the vets, but at least give the kids a chance.
I guess I don't get why it's so hard to comprehend that they're getting a second shot with a short leash? Our PK magically turned elite over the past offseason, maybe the PP can. Give them a shot for 10 games, and if they fail, it's over. He's not going to keep it the same way all year if they suck right away.. he can't, there's no way.
FVM
This does not please me.
The more I hear of "World War III breaking out" "hierarchical dominance" "star egos" the less I actually think of Yeo. This is not something unique to Wild. All star athletes have egos. Your job as a coach is to manage them. You can't let them run the ship.
If it was just Yeo's stubborn faith in his gameplan and personnel choices, I'd be more willing to accept the crappy PP as a sort of an obligatory downside to an otherwise very decent coach. But as it is apparently his lack of willingness to hurt some surprisingly fragile egos in the locker room, I'm very disappointed. Those veterans sitting on fat contracts better have a very short leash this season. Otherwise I think this will create a toxic situation in the locker room. Our young guns are not stupid, they see and take notice if they are not being trusted by their coach. Or constantly playing the second fiddle to guys whose only merit for #1 PP time is the numbers in their paychecks.
If it was just Yeo's stubborn faith in his gameplan and personnel choices, I'd be more willing to accept the crappy PP as a sort of an obligatory downside to an otherwise very decent coach. But as it is apparently his lack of willingness to hurt some surprisingly fragile egos in the locker room, I'm very disappointed. Those veterans sitting on fat contracts better have a very short leash this season. Otherwise I think this will create a toxic situation in the locker room. Our young guns are not stupid, they see and take notice if they are not being trusted by their coach. Or constantly playing the second fiddle to guys whose only merit for #1 PP time is the numbers in their paychecks.
Bolded has been the crux of my complaint from the start.
Do you have any faith that Yeo will actually make a change if the vets suck it up? I don't.
Sounds like a bunch of whiny prima donnas are running the team, and if Yeo can't manage that, I don't think he's doing a good enough job.
Yes, I do. The kids are no longer kids, and he knows that.
How can you possibly call anyone on the team a whiny prima donna when we have no proof that any of them have ever complained about being taken off the PP? I think it's likely the vets have never complained about anything (I mean, they haven't been taken off the PP so why would they complain). The blame here should be on Yeo, if that's what you believe, because Yeo is the one who won't switch it up.
Again, do we have any proof that anyone would be really upset about being taken off the PP? It's all speculation from Russo.
And since when has Russo *EVER* published baseless speculation? Especially baseless speculation that's negative towards the team.
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
To be honest, I'd like to hear where he even said this in the first place to see if he was rambling about something that could be true, or if it sounded like it was actually a fact. Anyone know where to find that?
Plus it was just a podcast, nothing ever published. (I could be wrong, but I think this is true)
http://video.startribune.com/minnesota-wild-gm-talks-with-michael-russo-at-the-fair/324019541/
Starts around 10:30.
Fletcher's exact words with regard to changing the PP: "Do you start World War 3 with your top players on the power play..."
His argument was that we were winning in spite of the PP. This kind of thinking bugs the everliving hell out of me...
*edit
For the record, he does say there will be changes this year. I'm just saying that, based on these statements, I don't believe there will be meaningful changes.
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Hah, that leash is gonna be a mile long and cost us a couple of wins cause the pp cant deliver before it gets pulled.
Ah, didn't know he was at the fair yesterday if you were referring to these comments the whole time.
He comes out at the end and says "This year, there will be changes."
I kind of get the point. When you're winning 75% of your games, you don't want to mess with what's working. Wasn't our PP during the second half of the season middle of the pack? Plus, we still don't know if this whole ego thing is actually a problem, or if the coach/GM just THINK it might be a problem.
What are you saying he explained?
Russo's podcast, he basically says exactly what we've been talking about. Just because the team was winning, they don't want to "mess things up".
There are emotions and egos to be concerned with. And I'm going to repeat myself, if Yeo can't manage them AND improve a glaring weakness of the team, he's not the right coach for this team.
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