2015-16 Training Camp Thread: Part II

[aufheben]

Go-go.

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[Thirty One]

Not having Glass in the line up or someone that can replace what he does would only lead to all the star players to having targets on their back.

Every team in the league would target anyone they wanted without any fear of repercussion every single game.

Could you list the incidents that occurred in the 16 games without Glass in the lineup last season for me? My memory is a bit foggy.

I remember Byfuglien trying to decapitate Miller with Glass in the lineup. I shudder to think what might have happened had he not been.

 

[Machinehead]

If you really think Zac Rinaldo would ever sit there and think "gee I better not be a violent sociopath tonight or I might have to fight Tanner Glass" I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[NYR]

Could you list the incidents that occurred in the 16 games without Glass in the lineup last season for me? My memory is a bit foggy.

I remember Byfuglien trying to decapitate Miller with Glass in the lineup. I shudder to think what might have happened had he not been.

Guy.. You aren't going to convince me that having an enforcer in the lineup isn't needed after what happened just yesterday.

 

[Thirty One]

If you really think Zac Rinaldo would ever sit there and think "gee I better not be a violent sociopath tonight or I might have to fight Tanner Glass" I've got a bridge to sell you.

I too have my doubts that you can deter players who are only in the league to fight by fighting them.

 

[Thirty One]

Guy.. You aren't going to convince me that having an enforcer in the lineup isn't needed after what happened just yesterday.

I didn't ask for your convincement. Only a list.

 

[Machinehead]

Guy.. You aren't going to convince me that having an enforcer in the lineup isn't needed after what happened just yesterday.

But we had one yesterday and it STILL HAPPENED.

 

[NYR]

If you really think Zac Rinaldo would ever sit there and think "gee I better not be a violent sociopath tonight or I might have to fight Tanner Glass" I've got a bridge to sell you.

If you think deterrence isn't apart of the game you're severely misinformed and probably already looked into buying that bridge.

 

[Machinehead]

If you think deterrence isn't apart of the game you're severely misinformed and probably already looked into buying that bridge.

Then why can nobody ever give me an example of it working?

In fact, that list would be great.

 

[failure]

Guy.. You aren't going to convince me that having an enforcer in the lineup isn't needed after what happened just yesterday.

I guess you didn't see when Rinaldo was talking trash on the face-off and turned around to blast Hughes(?) with a huge hit. I bet he was definintely thinking twice about it before hand.

 

[NYR]

I didn't ask for your convincement. Only a list.

If you don't know about the history of enforcing in hockey, read a book or something and write your own list.

The snippy comments never get old in this place lol.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

If you don't know about the history of enforcing in hockey, read a book or something and write your own list.

The snippy comments never get old in this place lol.

I don't think asking for evidence to prove your point is "snippy".

And you'd be right about the history of hockey and deterrence - because that's what deterrence in hockey is at this point. History. It has no place in today's league.

 

[NYR]

Then why can nobody ever give me an example of it working?

In fact, that list would be great.

Did you watch the game?
What more example do you need? Glass best his ass and he stopped running around. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Machinehead]

Here we are the training camp thread. Good opportunity to break down the roster and talk about who fits where, and here I am still trying to convince people that enforcers are worthless. In ****ing 2015.

The Earth is flat.

 

[NYR]

I guess you didn't see when Rinaldo was talking trash on the face-off and turned around to blast Hughes(?) with a huge hit. I bet he was definintely thinking twice about it before hand.

That's before he got beat up lol

 

[Machinehead]

Did you watch the game?
What more example do you need? Glass best his ass and he stopped running around. Seems pretty simple to me.

Rinaldo has never stopped running around. He has one of these incidents almost every game he plays in. He's been beat worse by bigger guys. It doesn't work.

 

[NYR]

I don't think asking for evidence to prove your point is "snippy".

And you'd be right about the history of hockey and deterrence - because that's what deterrence in hockey is at this point. History. It has no place in today league.

OK example.

How about Gleason in the playoffs. He was running all our players. Glass came in, made him a bloody mess and that was the end of that.

That work for you or did that have no significance in the series?

 

[Machinehead]

OK example.

How about Gleason in the playoffs. He was running all our players. Glass came in, made him a bloody mess and that was the end of that.

That work for you or did that have no significance in the series?

Seeing as Tim Gleason is a worthless, garbage hockey player, I'm gonna go with no.

 

[Thirty One]

If you don't know about the history of enforcing in hockey, read a book or something and write your own list.

The snippy comments never get old in this place lol.

I'm aware of the history of enforcing in hockey. This is what I wrote about it last year:

There may well have been a time when deterrence was a real factor in winning and losing hockey games. But it isn’t now. Not with the game called as strictly as it is today, and any serious show of aggression on an unwilling opponent likely meaning a five minute penalty kill. And not with the minimum league salary being $550,000. I don’t like to get punched in the face, but if my reaction to it was a significant factor in me earning half a million annually and not earning half a million annually, I think I could be pretty brave.

On the topic of enforcing in the current NHL:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-enforcer-fallacy-hockeys-fighting-specialists-don-1442618145

I went back over the last two years and looked at every team that was on the receiving end of a hit that resulted in a suspension, fine, or match penalty (I excluded match penalties that were later rescinded by the league, as well as any fines or suspensions for other incidents, including verbal abuse, hand gestures, etc.) and looked at whether or not they had fighter in the lineup on that night.

The results were not surprising. Of the 106 incidents since the start of the 2011-12 season that resulted in some sort of supplemental discipline from the league, 54 of them involved the team on the receiving end having a fighter dressed in the lineup that particular game. Fifty-two teams did not have a fighter dressed. The rate per game with an enforcer dressed was once every 36.9 games, and without an enforcer once every 36.1 games. Hardly a huge difference one way or the other, and it doesn’t really do much to suggest that enforcers really serve as any sort of a deterrent from other players doing something dumb.

 

[NYR]

Seeing as Tim Gleason is a worthless, garbage hockey player, I'm gonna go with no.

Every player is garbage. Nobody has a role unless they score 30 goals. I see.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Tanner Glass and players like him, like Rinaldo don't see enough TOI and don't have enough impact of the game to 'deter' anything.

Zdeno Chara/Chris Pronger.

Who the **** is going to mess with or take a run at a skilled guy on those teams while Chara or Pronger is out there? In fact, the only reason one might, is to try and goad those guys into a fight and thus remove them from the game for 5 minutes, which helps the goon's team.

Taking Tanner Glass or Zac Rinaldo off the ice for 5 minutes, actually helps their respective teams.

With that said, you need to be a passable/respectable hockey player who sees the ice enough to have an impact like that.

 

[NYR]

Here we are the training camp thread. Good opportunity to break down the roster and talk about who fits where, and here I am still trying to convince people that enforcers are worthless. In ****ing 2015.

The Earth is flat.

Flat yet 3/4 of it is water. Thus the need for bridges

 

[Machinehead]

Every player is garbage. Nobody has a role unless they score 30 goals. I see.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

There's lots of roles. In that series they were filled by players like Fast, like Beagle, like Carlson, like Moore, like Chimera, who are hardly 30 goal scorers.

Punching people in the face is not a role. It's a circus sideshow that has nothing to do with hockey.

It will be gone from the game soon, because the game no longer needs that sideshow to draw fans. When it's gone, and when it takes with it the fans who are only here to see it, the game will be better for it.

 

[NYR]

I agree.

 

[NYR]

I'm aware of the history of enforcing in hockey. This is what I wrote about it last year:



On the topic of enforcing in the current NHL:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-enforcer-fallacy-hockeys-fighting-specialists-don-1442618145

Not having Glass in the line up or someone that can replace what he does would only lead to all the star players to having targets on their back.

Every team in the league would target anyone they wanted without any fear of repercussion every single game.

While staged fighting is dying out, players need to police themselves, add an intimidation factor and keep the opposing team honest.

It's always been apart of the game of hockey and always will be. Me personally, I enjoy it. As does every screaming fan in every arena.

And that's what I wrote about 10 minutes ago. I'll stick by it.