Prospect Info: 2014-2015 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part III* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 3/22)

[Beacon]

The top Russian propsects rarely play in the MHL after the age of 17 or so. Look back at the past five drafts--what top Russian prospects spent time in the MHL? Scherbak, but again, at age 17. Goldbin--age 16. Nichuskin--9 games at age 17. Yakupov, Grigorenko, same thing. The real high-end prospects won't ever spend any time there past age 18 because it's not a challenge and isn't optimal for their development, and the league as a whole isn't filled with guys that would have legitimate NHL aspirations.

And this is why the NHL/CHL about keeping U20 players in juniors instead of the AHL. Letting kids play in the AHL will destroy the juniors.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The top Russian propsects rarely play in the MHL after the age of 17 or so. Look back at the past five drafts--what top Russian prospects spent time in the MHL? Scherbak, but again, at age 17. Goldbin--age 16. Nichuskin--9 games at age 17. Yakupov, Grigorenko, same thing. The real high-end prospects won't ever spend any time there past age 18 because it's not a challenge and isn't optimal for their development, and the league as a whole isn't filled with guys that would have legitimate NHL aspirations.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Buchnevich's participation and production in the MHL playoffs, but for a guy of his caliber that's a week away from his 20th birthday, it's absolutely expected that he'd dominate down there. I'm glad he's performing well there, but it's not "impressive" in the proper context.

Kucherov scored 4 points in 7 games in 2011-2012 MHL playoffs. He was a year younger than Buchnevich right now.

 

[nyr2k2]

Kucherov scored 4 points in 7 games in 2011-2012 MHL playoffs. He was a year younger than Buchnevich right now.

And Johan Franzen scored 7 goals at age 25 in the SEL. What's your point? I'm talking about what you'd typically expect from a player. There are always exceptions to any rule and exceptional circumstances that require you to look at a guy in a different context. What are Buchnevich's exceptional circumstances? He's been in the KHL for two full years, has a host of international experience, will be 20 in a month, and just had a good year in the world's second best league. Now he's beating up on guys 99% of whom can't even hold his jock. He's doing what he should be doing.

 

[NYR713]

I've never seen Fogarty play. I liked his size on those pics. Being that big is always good.

I like what I've seen out of Fogarty. Just don't expect a bunch of offense. If he can reach his potential and makes an NHL roster, I figure him to be a solid 4th line type. He's big, has good hockey sense and plays pretty well defensively. I don't watch every ND game, so don't completely take my word, but I do watch him pretty closely when I do see their games.

 

[Kshahdoo]

And Johan Franzen scored 7 goals at age 25 in the SEL. What's your point? I'm talking about what you'd typically expect from a player. There are always exceptions to any rule and exceptional circumstances that require you to look at a guy in a different context. What are Buchnevich's exceptional circumstances? He's been in the KHL for two full years, has a host of international experience, will be 20 in a month, and just had a good year in the world's second best league. Now he's beating up on guys 99% of whom can't even hold his jock. He's doing what he should be doing.

I just mean that Buchnevich could score a lot in the CHL, which usualy is the main criterion for NA fans to figure out how good this or that kid will be in the NHL. I think he could be a 2 PPG player in the CHL. That's it.

 

[darko]

Iverson's point totals by month (game played in parentheses):

2 (3)
3 (12)
5 (12)
5 (10)
6 (12)
8 (9)
9 (7) so far

His overall numbers will not indicate a progression (statistically), but it's clear to see a progression as the season has worn on.

Very encouraging. Looking forward to seeing what he does next year.

 

[Synergy27]

Very encouraging. Looking forward to seeing what he does next year.

I watched him closely during the Winterhawks game I attended last month. I will be downright shocked if he becomes an NHL player. It was only one game, sure, but he just didn't do anything that stood out to me at all.

He's pretty big, but his skating wasn't great and he wasn't overly physical. Just not a very impressive player at all. I dunno.

 

[RGY]

I just mean that Buchnevich could score a lot in the CHL, which usualy is the main criterion for NA fans to figure out how good this or that kid will be in the NHL. I think he could be a 2 PPG player in the CHL. That's it.

And there are some here who totally disagree with that. There have been a plethora of players who put up a lot of points in the CHL and end up going nowhere. The perfect example being Evgeny Grachev. So i think your criterion is wrong if thats how you judge players.

I would much rather Buchnevich playing in the KHL, the second best league in the world, against men. That is much better for his development. I think it has helped him grow and mature quicker mentally and physically so that he is close to being in the NHL, perhaps by the start of next year.

 

[RGY]

I like what I've seen out of Fogarty. Just don't expect a bunch of offense. If he can reach his potential and makes an NHL roster, I figure him to be a solid 4th line type. He's big, has good hockey sense and plays pretty well defensively. I don't watch every ND game, so don't completely take my word, but I do watch him pretty closely when I do see their games.

This is the same analysis I had in the three games i watched him play in. I agree whole heartedly that if he makes it, he could be a bigger version of Dom Moore. But that is a few years down the line.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Mantha and Dunn are a great top pairing for Niagara. Dunn is another guy rising up the charts but he actually deserves it.

Nejezchleb is a guy who deserves his poor +/- but again, his team has been crushed by injuries and he's always been a top-line target for defenders. He's an OA but definitely a project with upside.

Iverson was a guy I was really critical of but now is playing like a man possessed. He's just a tough mean kid who is even tougher to play against when he's scoring. He gets under everybody's skin - some guy even spit on him and was suspended for it. He's definitely a power forward - like a poor man's Dustin Brown but he's not a diving hack. He absorbs open-ice hits better than anybody I've seen this year. He can play both center and wing but the switch to wing is why he's been scoring. He could be a little quicker and has an excellent shot but doesn't use it as much since he's getting a lot of goals from in front. I say upside is 2nd line Backes type.

My hope is that in 3 years both McIlrath and Iverson are on this team.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I watched him closely during the Winterhawks game I attended last month. I will be downright shocked if he becomes an NHL player. It was only one game, sure, but he just didn't do anything that stood out to me at all.

He's pretty big, but his skating wasn't great and he wasn't overly physical. Just not a very impressive player at all. I dunno.

He's been better at being consistent and he's not a good skater, but I can tell you now he's most certainly physical. He'd be a 30-30 guy on most teams. Remember he's a 3rd liner and not really his doing.

One guy I talked to who covers the WHL said he's like McIlrath in that they avoid contact and confrontation with him. Plus he's been scoring more so he wants to stay out of the box.

But def a project still. I think the only sure thing in the system at this point to become a sure-fire NHL'er is Skjei (and dare I say McIlrath)

 

[eco's bones]

Mantha and Dunn are a great top pairing for Niagara. Dunn is another guy rising up the charts but he actually deserves it.

Nejezchleb is a guy who deserves his poor +/- but again, his team has been crushed by injuries and he's always been a top-line target for defenders. He's an OA but definitely a project with upside.

Iverson was a guy I was really critical of but now is playing like a man possessed. He's just a tough mean kid who is even tougher to play against when he's scoring. He gets under everybody's skin - some guy even spit on him and was suspended for it. He's definitely a power forward - like a poor man's Dustin Brown but he's not a diving hack. He absorbs open-ice hits better than anybody I've seen this year. He can play both center and wing but the switch to wing is why he's been scoring. He could be a little quicker and has an excellent shot but doesn't use it as much since he's getting a lot of goals from in front. I say upside is 2nd line Backes type.

My hope is that in 3 years both McIlrath and Iverson are on this team.

Iverson is only 18. He's more developing to do. He also plays on deeper team which puts him further down the pecking order than the 20 year old Nejezchleb on his team. I really don't know why people have been panning the Iverson pick so hard this year. He's not going to turn pro next year and maybe not the year after that. Let's wait and see how he progresses a little bit longer.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I have always liked Fogarty. I watched him play in HS in Minny. So don't take this as me "not liking" him.

But it is pretty unlikely he ever makes the NHL. People really underestimate what type of players most bottom 6 centers were in college. Dominic Moore scored 51 points in 34 games his senior year. Jeff Halpen scored 44 in 33 (53 in 36 his junior year).

31 games. 9-13-22.
39 games. 9-12-21.

Bottom is Fogarty's junior year. The top? Belongs to George Parros his junior season.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

Mantha and Dunn are a great top pairing for Niagara. Dunn is another guy rising up the charts but he actually deserves it.

Wait. Hold up. Mantha's on Niagara's #1 D-pairing? Do we have another steal on our hands? He's got the bloodlines...

 

[NYR713]

I have always liked Fogarty. I watched him play in HS in Minny. So don't take this as me "not liking" him.

But it is pretty unlikely he ever makes the NHL. People really underestimate what type of players most bottom 6 centers were in college. Dominic Moore scored 51 points in 34 games his senior year. Jeff Halpen scored 44 in 33 (53 in 36 his junior year).

31 games. 9-13-22.
39 games. 9-12-21.

Bottom is Fogarty's junior year. The top? Belongs to George Parros his junior season.

That doesn't really bother me though. There are a lot of guys that can score in college and can barely keep a job at the AHL level because they can't do the other things and the easy scoring is no longer there. I'm not saying he's a lock for the NHL but Fogarty has the size, skating and (what looks to me like) good hockey IQ while playing more of a grinding game.

 

[Beacon]

I have always liked Fogarty. I watched him play in HS in Minny. So don't take this as me "not liking" him.

But it is pretty unlikely he ever makes the NHL. People really underestimate what type of players most bottom 6 centers were in college. Dominic Moore scored 51 points in 34 games his senior year. Jeff Halpen scored 44 in 33 (53 in 36 his junior year).

31 games. 9-13-22.
39 games. 9-12-21.

Bottom is Fogarty's junior year. The top? Belongs to George Parros his junior season.

People treat offense and defense as unrelated skills. They aren't. In The NHL, a player may focus on one job, so it may seem that way, but if you are a future NHL forward, you normally dominate in al 3 zones in the NCAA/CHL.

You don't need a great shot or skilled hands to score there. If you have NHL-level vision, skating and IQ, you can put up points at a lower level. Lack of points at a lower level points not just to a lack of offensive ability, but to other missing skills and smarts as well.

 

[nyr2k2]

People treat offense and defense as unrelated skills. They aren't. In The NHL, a player may focus on one job, so it may seem that way, but if you are a future NHL forward, you normally dominate in al 3 zones in the NCAA/CHL.

You don't need a great shot or skilled hands to score there. If you have NHL-level vision, skating and IQ, you can put up points at a lower level. Lack of points at a lower level points not just to a lack of offensive ability, but to other missing skills and smarts as well.

So, what skills specifically are missing from Fogarty's game? I see lots of people talk about what Fogarty possesses--size, good skating, a defensive acumen, physicality, leadership--but his detractors only point to his point totals. I never see any real argument against Fogarty's professional prospects other than, "most guys that make it produce more offense." That may be true, but we know there are always exceptions to every rule. I like what I see when I watch him and think that his game will translate well to the pros. What is his game lacking, other than gaudy stats?

 

[eco's bones]

There aren't as many point a game players in college hockey as there was 5--10 years ago. It's like in the NHL--scoring is more spread out through a lineup. How many NHL'ers are going to get 100 points this year?--Not one. In the past some years you would have 10 guys do it. Forwards are taught to defend--to come back hard on the back check. Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos--they get a ******** of attention every time they step on the ice. To be a successful team these days you need at least 3 lines that can score and it helps a lot if the 4th line can chip in.

Fogarty IMO has a real chance but he doesn't have great upside. If he can prove he can skate and check at the NHL level--the other thing is his ability to chip in now and again. It's the 4th line job description for him. And here I think I'm speaking about Hrivik as well. To me Hrivik is a more developed and battle tested winger version of Fogarty and Hrivik's faced tougher competition. And whether Hrivik ever sees the NHL as a Ranger after 3 years of battling in the AHL and a couple major injuries remains to be seen.

Personally I'd wait on both Nieves and Fogarty. I'd let both of them go back for their senior year of college. If somehow we lost them to free agency--they're not major losses. Skjei on the other hand--sign him.

 

[CTRanger]

A similar player who played in the same system as Fogarty is Riley Sheahan. Sheahan spent three years at ND playing a similar role. Big "defensive" centers. He went pro after his junior year. His junior season in 37GP he went 9-16-25. He's turning into a real solid NHL player.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

A similar player who played in the same system as Fogarty is Riley Sheahan. Sheahan spent three years at ND playing a similar role. Big "defensive" centers. He went pro after his junior year. His junior season in 37GP he went 9-16-25. He's turning into a real solid NHL player.

Sheahan did that his second year post-draft. Because Fogarty went to the BCHL his Freshman year was hist second post-draft season.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I have always liked Fogarty. I watched him play in HS in Minny. So don't take this as me "not liking" him.

But it is pretty unlikely he ever makes the NHL. People really underestimate what type of players most bottom 6 centers were in college. Dominic Moore scored 51 points in 34 games his senior year. Jeff Halpen scored 44 in 33 (53 in 36 his junior year).

31 games. 9-13-22.
39 games. 9-12-21.

Bottom is Fogarty's junior year. The top? Belongs to George Parros his junior season.

Offense was easier to come by in the NCAA not all that long ago. Certainly when those guys were playing.

 

[Graves94]

People treat offense and defense as unrelated skills. They aren't. In The NHL, a player may focus on one job, so it may seem that way, but if you are a future NHL forward, you normally dominate in al 3 zones in the NCAA/CHL.

You don't need a great shot or skilled hands to score there. If you have NHL-level vision, skating and IQ, you can put up points at a lower level. Lack of points at a lower level points not just to a lack of offensive ability, but to other missing skills and smarts as well.

I'm not picking on you, but...by your logic, McD shouldn't be putting up any points in the NHL because he's doesn't have tools and smarts? I'm confused
Every player develops differently once they turn pro, some make it, some don't.

 

[Beacon]

I'm not picking on you, but...by your logic, McD shouldn't be putting up any points in the NHL because he's doesn't have tools and smarts? I'm confused
Every player develops differently once they turn pro, some make it, some don't.

McD was a defenseman.

 

[Raspewtin]

Nieves scored to make it 3-1 against Michigan State, which is on the B10 network right now.

 

[ArPanet]

Michigan v Minnesota tomorrow night. 8pm eastern Big 10 network.

edit to add listing.