Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part VIII

[Gardner McKay]

Continue discussion here. Below is the link to a previous thread.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1764943

Click to read more...

 

[NYR Viper]

He has crazy back issues. Making his season debut tonight I think. Perhaps the Rangers will keep a close eye on him? Closer than I'd like, at least

I'd prefer a puck-mover, but maybe those back issues make him cheaper to acquire at the deadline. He would be an adequate replacement for Staal for the remainder of the year at least.

On the main boards people are discussing Gardiner, he's a bit of a trainwreck and has a high salary. I'd like to see him paired with Klein and see what they can do together. He needs a partner who can cover for him a bit and let him run wild. His skating would fit this system to a 't' and allow the Rangers to have McDonagh, Gardiner and Boyle on 3 different pairings would bring some added offense.

 

[bernmeister]

Big board has Krug available from Bs for scoring W.

Zuc straight up
We add if he walks
They add if he extends

 

[NYR Viper]

Big board has Krug available from Bs for scoring W.

Zuc straight up
We add if he walks
They add if he extends

I think he is too small to give up too much for him.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'd prefer a puck-mover, but maybe those back issues make him cheaper to acquire at the deadline. He would be an adequate replacement for Staal for the remainder of the year at least.

On the main boards people are discussing Gardiner, he's a bit of a trainwreck and has a high salary. I'd like to see him paired with Klein and see what they can do together. He needs a partner who can cover for him a bit and let him run wild. His skating would fit this system to a 't' and allow the Rangers to have McDonagh, Gardiner and Boyle on 3 different pairings would bring some added offense.

I think Gardiner would do well with Klein. Klein is stable enough defensively to allow Gardiner to get involved in the offense. Gardiner is also a fantastic skater and would add some more mobility to our blue line considering Girardi and Boyle are not exactly fleet of foot.

I like the idea. Gardiner + Conditional picks for Staal.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Gardiner would do well with Klein. Klein is stable enough defensively to allow Gardiner to get involved in the offense. Gardiner is also a fantastic skater and would add some more mobility to our blue line considering Girardi and Boyle are not exactly fleet of foot.

That would mean they would have to be comfortable with a top-4 (most likely) moving forward of:

McDonagh-Girardi
Gardiner-Klein
______/Boyle-Boyle/_______

You can move some pieces around but that would be it. At 2.9 (Klein) and 4 (Gardiner) those are 2nd pairing numbers. Boyle would anchor the 3rd pairing with a rookie most likely next season, be it Skjei or McIlrath most likely.

I'd feel pretty comfortable with that moving forward.

 

[Gardner McKay]

That would mean they would have to be comfortable with a top-4 (most likely) moving forward of:

McDonagh-Girardi
Gardiner-Klein
______/Boyle-Boyle/_______

You can move some pieces around but that would be it. At 2.9 (Klein) and 4 (Gardiner) those are 2nd pairing numbers. Boyle would anchor the 3rd pairing with a rookie most likely next season, be it Skjei or McIlrath most likely.

I'd feel pretty comfortable with that moving forward.

I would as well. I think its a great idea. We lost some mobility by replacing Stralman with Boyle. Having a person with speed on each pairing is important.

That is why we are having issues with Tampa. They can fly. Their speed creates major issues for us defensively.

 

[NYR Viper]

Here's the question:


Would it make more sense to trade Staal desperately elsewhere and then try and acquire Gardiner?

Does Staal as a UFA hold enough value to Toronto or would he hold more value to someone like Dallas or Anaheim and could the Rangers formulate a package for Gardiner with players like Miller/Fast/Lindberg/etc

 

[Gardner McKay]

Here's the question:


Would it make more sense to trade Staal desperately elsewhere and then try and acquire Gardiner?

Does Staal as a UFA hold enough value to Toronto or would he hold more value to someone like Dallas or Anaheim and could the Rangers formulate a package for Gardiner with players like Miller/Fast/Lindberg/etc

You are probably right on that. If Toronto isn't in the PO hunt near the trade deadline, they have no reason to trade for Staal regardless of how much better he may be than Gardiner. I know 3 way trades are rare but what worries me would be trading Staal and then a trade for Gardiner falling through. At that point we would (to quote Sheldon from Big Bang) "be up a river of excrement with no means of propulsion."

 

[silverfish]

Here's the question:


Would it make more sense to trade Staal desperately elsewhere and then try and acquire Gardiner?

Does Staal as a UFA hold enough value to Toronto or would he hold more value to someone like Dallas or Anaheim and could the Rangers formulate a package for Gardiner with players like Miller/Fast/Lindberg/etc

Get a 1st round pick and a prospect or a similar rental package for Staal somewhere out west. Trade Moore/Miller for Gardiner?

I'd be okay with that.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Get a 1st round pick and a prospect or a similar rental package for Staal somewhere out west. Trade Moore/Miller for Gardiner?

I'd be okay with that.

That works for me. I happen to like Gardiner. I know some here aren't very high on him but IMO I think Gardiner has the potential to be a McDonagh-lite. He just needs some help on the defensive side of the puck. Good thing for us is that we have more than enough defensive guys.

 

[offdacrossbar]

we can't move staal and then import another big contract back if we hope to resign our f/a's.

thats the rub here. we have no more space.

we have without marc stall

mcd lefty
girardi righty
boyle righty
klein righty

moore lefty
hunwick lefty

all on either long term or decent short term deals. those first 4 guys are our top dmen right there. thats the first 2 pairs.

we need to slot in an improvement in our last pair. hunwick and moore are similar players. we should be looking for an inexpensive LH defensive dman on the cheap. slot him in on that 3rd pair.

we cannot afford another high end D contract if we want to resign rfa's like step and hags. not to mention ufa's msl, zuke, cambot and stemper.

mcilrath doesn't help being right handed not to mention he's not ready.

looks to me like that should be the plan. LH defensive dman. move one of moore and hunwick.

and go get VERMETTE

 

[NYR Viper]

Get a 1st round pick and a prospect or a similar rental package for Staal somewhere out west. Trade Moore/Miller for Gardiner?


I'd be okay with that.

That was my thought, something along those lines

we can't move staal and then import another big contract back if we hope to resign our f/a's.

thats the rub here. we have no more space.

we have without marc stall

mcd lefty
girardi righty
boyle righty
klein righty

moore lefty
hunwick lefty

all on either long term or decent short term deals. those first 4 guys are our top dmen right there. thats the first 2 pairs.

we need to slot in an improvement in our last pair. hunwick and moore are similar players. we should be looking for an inexpensive LH defensive dman on the cheap. slot him in on that 3rd pair.

we cannot afford another high end D contract if we want to resign rfa's like step and hags. not to mention ufa's msl, zuke, cambot and stemper.

mcilrath doesn't help being right handed not to mention he's not ready.

looks to me like that should be the plan. LH defensive dman. move one of moore and hunwick.

and go get VERMETTE

If they move Moore in the deal then his raise is gone. Gardiner makes 4. Staal would make 6+. That means 2+ in savings.

At this point, MZA isn't looking like he is going to get much of a raise.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Derek Stepan ($6.000m) / Martin St. Louis ($4.750m)
Chris Kreider ($2.475m) / Derick Brassard ($5.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($3.500m) / Kevin Hayes ($0.900m) / Anthony Duclair ($0.773m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Jake Gardiner ($4.050m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dan Boyle ($4.500m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.851m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $71,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,398,000; BONUSES: $2,971,667
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $602,000

 

[Cassano]

Here's the question:


Would it make more sense to trade Staal desperately elsewhere and then try and acquire Gardiner?

Does Staal as a UFA hold enough value to Toronto or would he hold more value to someone like Dallas or Anaheim and could the Rangers formulate a package for Gardiner with players like Miller/Fast/Lindberg/etc

I am so down for a Staal-Gardiner swap. Team gets younger, get a dman who can skate, has played with McDonagh (try Gardiner-McD top pair in the future??) and is signed to a good contract. This is the type of cost-cutting move the Rangers should make. They can still contend with Gardiner.

 

[offdacrossbar]

That works for me. I happen to like Gardiner. I know some here aren't very high on him but IMO I think Gardiner has the potential to be a McDonagh-lite. He just needs some help on the defensive side of the puck. Good thing for us is that we have more than enough defensive guys.

gardiner seems a lot like john moore to me. and we ABSOLUTELY KILL JOHN MOORE for being just like gardiner except for a lot less money. hell bring his -10 along with him and would instantly be the new whipping boy.

ryan mcdonagh lite.... ??? lololo

dudes been horrendous this year. every time i watch him play I'm shocked about all the buzz this kid had. he's awful with the puck. he's supposedly an offensive kid but he's been terrible in the o one.

defensively he will make john moore look great. his confidence right now looks to be -10.

change of scenery guy ? ya, maybe but he's an expensive john moore. 5/20 is not worth it and we can't afford that anyway.

is he an upgrade over the hunwick/moore pair even slightly ? naw.

 

[Gardner McKay]

gardiner seems a lot like john moore to me. and we ABSOLUTELY KILL JOHN MOORE for being just like gardiner except for a lot less money. hell bring his -10 along with him and would instantly be the new whipping boy.

ryan mcdonagh lite.... ??? lololo

dudes been horrendous this year. every time i watch him play I'm shocked about all the buzz this kid had. he's awful with the puck. he's supposedly an offensive kid but he's been terrible in the o one.

defensively he will make john moore look great. his confidence right now looks to be -10.

change of scenery guy ? ya, maybe but he's an expensive john moore. 5/20 is not worth it and we can't afford that anyway.

is he an upgrade over the hunwick/moore pair even slightly ? naw.

Gardiner is nothing like John Moore except from the fact that they are both having bad seasons. Gardiner has shown consistently that he is a much better player than what he has done this season. Moore outside of a few good games here or there has never consistently show he is much better than how he is doing this season.

 

[silverfish]

What we really need to do is focus on getting Jake McCabe out of Buffalo.

Wanna talk McDonagh-lite? It's him.

McDonagh
McCabe
Skjei

Down the left hand-side forever would be the best D in the league - assuming McCabe and Skjei pan out, of course

 

[Cassano]

Trade Ideas:

M. Staal + 2nd for J. Gardiner

John Moore + Kristo for J.Schultz (retained to match cap hit for trades)

2nd one may be controversial since J.Schultz has been hot garbage since entering the NHL, but I think a lot of that attributes to the dumpster fire coaching in Edmonton. A good opportunity to buy low on a very talented RHD that can be groomed to replace Boyle down the line. Coaching under Ulf will help his defense for sure. IMO it's inevitable he is traded because he's been called out by other players on the team for his poor defensive work.

That leaves a defense corps heading into the playoffs:

McDonagh-Girardi
Gardiner-Boyle
Hunwick-Klein
Schultz

Thoughts?

 

[offdacrossbar]

Gardiner is nothing like John Moore except from the fact that they are both having bad seasons. Gardiner has shown consistently that he is a much better player than what he has done this season. Moore outside of a few good games here or there has never consistently show he is much better than how he is doing this season.

his game this season has been consistently bad. i watch a lot of leafs games. he's been beyond bad. leaf fans want to lynch the kid.

defensively he's been a liability since he joined the leafs. his career -15 is weak sauce and if he's not scoring points, you have the player he is this season. bad.

sure he's got potential. so does john moore and dylan mcilrath.

moore isn't having a "bad season" unless you drink the koolaide and feel that he's costing us games and can't play a regular shift. he isn't and he can. at 1 mil per year he's a good value for a team that needs that.

i just don't see the reason to invest 20 mil in another kid who's clueless defensively, and jake gardiner is just that.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Trade Ideas:

M. Staal + 2nd for J. Gardiner

John Moore + Kristo for J.Schultz (retained to match cap hit for trades)

2nd one may be controversial since J.Schultz has been hot garbage since entering the NHL, but I think a lot of that attributes to the dumpster fire coaching in Edmonton. A good opportunity to buy low on a very talented RHD that can be groomed to replace Boyle down the line. Coaching under Ulf will help his defense for sure. IMO it's inevitable he is traded because he's been called out by other players on the team for his poor defensive work.

That leaves a defense corps heading into the playoffs:

McDonagh-Girardi
Gardiner-Boyle
Hunwick-Klein
Schultz

Thoughts?

does danny kristo have any value whatsoever at this point ?

JS is right handed shot and another all offense/no def type guy.

not really our need.

LH defensive guy more fits the bill.

 

[Raspewtin]

No desire for Justin Schultz. He sucks.

Very much desire Jake Gardiner. Get him away from that clown Carlyle and he can be a tremendous top 4 d-man. Consistently outside of this season has been the Leafs best ES defender, better than Phaneuf considerably. He's getting killed by a coach with rocks for brains.

 

[NYR Viper]

gardiner seems a lot like john moore to me. and we ABSOLUTELY KILL JOHN MOORE for being just like gardiner except for a lot less money. hell bring his -10 along with him and would instantly be the new whipping boy.

ryan mcdonagh lite.... ??? lololo

dudes been horrendous this year. every time i watch him play I'm shocked about all the buzz this kid had. he's awful with the puck. he's supposedly an offensive kid but he's been terrible in the o one.

defensively he will make john moore look great. his confidence right now looks to be -10.

change of scenery guy ? ya, maybe but he's an expensive john moore. 5/20 is not worth it and we can't afford that anyway.

is he an upgrade over the hunwick/moore pair even slightly ? naw.

Gardiner would be a pretty good get for this team. I am not much a fancy stats guy but his stats don't look too bad. (Mint please give me a run-down, you are much better at all of this stuff than I am)

He skates well and he needs to be in a system where he can stop thinking so much and just react. AV's defensive system is just like that. Man-to-man. That's why Hunwick has looked good here.

his game this season has been consistently bad. i watch a lot of leafs games. he's been beyond bad. leaf fans want to lynch the kid.

defensively he's been a liability since he joined the leafs. his career -15 is weak sauce and if he's not scoring points, you have the player he is this season. bad.

sure he's got potential. so does john moore and dylan mcilrath.

moore isn't having a "bad season" unless you drink the koolaide and feel that he's costing us games and can't play a regular shift. he isn't and he can. at 1 mil per year he's a good value for a team that needs that.

i just don't see the reason to invest 20 mil in another kid who's clueless defensively, and jake gardiner is just that.

He moves the puck well, skates well, has good size and has good hockey IQ. He doesn't fit into what Toronto is looking for. Very odd situation.

Trade Ideas:

M. Staal + 2nd for J. Gardiner

John Moore + Kristo for J.Schultz (retained to match cap hit for trades)

2nd one may be controversial since J.Schultz has been hot garbage since entering the NHL, but I think a lot of that attributes to the dumpster fire coaching in Edmonton. A good opportunity to buy low on a very talented RHD that can be groomed to replace Boyle down the line. Coaching under Ulf will help his defense for sure. IMO it's inevitable he is traded because he's been called out by other players on the team for his poor defensive work.

That leaves a defense corps heading into the playoffs:

McDonagh-Girardi
Gardiner-Boyle
Hunwick-Klein
Schultz

Thoughts?

I'd rather just grab Gardiner and then try and fill in the 4th line with someone who can cause some pain

No desire for Justin Schultz. He sucks.

Very much desire Jake Gardiner. Get him away from that clown Carlyle and he can be a tremendous top 4 d-man. Consistently outside of this season has been the Leafs best ES defender, better than Phaneuf considerably. He's getting killed by a coach with rocks for brains.

Agreed.

 

[Gardner McKay]

his game this season has been consistently bad. i watch a lot of leafs games. he's been beyond bad. leaf fans want to lynch the kid.

defensively he's been a liability since he joined the leafs. his career -15 is weak sauce and if he's not scoring points, you have the player he is this season. bad.

sure he's got potential. so does john moore and dylan mcilrath.

moore isn't having a "bad season" unless you drink the koolaide and feel that he's costing us games and can't play a regular shift. he isn't and he can. at 1 mil per year he's a good value for a team that needs that.

i just don't see the reason to invest 20 mil in another kid who's clueless defensively, and jake gardiner is just that.

Reminds me of Anton Stralman. Boy do we sure miss Stralman now. He was "clueless defensively". Players change. Many of us see the potential for change in Gardiner. AV is a much better coach. The Rangers are a much better team.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Posted this in the last thread, but what would you guys think about Staal and Gormley being the basis for a deal with the Coyotes? Young left D, cost-controlled, poised to break out behind a log-jam in Arizona...

 

[Raspewtin]

Gormley isn't playing because they have too many LHD.

Wouldn't Staal exacerabte that problem?