Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XI - Announcement Jan 7th, 12PM EST, TSN)

[BeardyCanuck03]

2002 was small ice.

so far they have a 4th and a 7th place finish on big ice. 2 golds on small ice.

the sweds have a gold and a 5th place finish on big ice.
the russians have a silver and a 4th place finish on big ice.

canada has a 4th and 7th place finish on big ice.

Nope, it was on big ice.

http://arenaguide.iihf.com/en/news/index.php?nid=7

The ice hockey tournaments in Vancouver 2010 were the first Olympics which were played on North American-sized rinks.

The last Olympic tournament in North America before Vancouver – Salt Lake City 2002 – was played on a large surface.

 

[capebretoncanadien]

This is what I disagree wholeheartedly with. Doughty and Weber suffer from the Eastern bias, but are both at least as good as Subban is. Subban is solid, but he benefits heavily by playing in Montreal as opposed to LA and Nashville, and perhaps even more by his flashy style. Doughty and Weber play a much more toned down style, but are every bit as good at it as Subban is at playing flash-and-dash.

In the end, Subban suffers from being a right-hander more than anything, IMO. If he was a lefty, he probably is on a second pairing with Weber, or he plays with Pietrangelo ahead of Bouwmeester. Weber, Keith and Doughty are all still ahead of him on the chart, and I think most people expect the Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo pairing to be there.

People are calling me out on the Weber flash and dash comment. This is what I wss responding to. Should have quoted it originally.

 

[Barrie22]

Nope, it was on big ice.

http://arenaguide.iihf.com/en/news/index.php?nid=7

well that is my bad, guess i should not be listening to analysts any more when it comes to creating team canada. considering it has been talked about non stop about how canada can't win on big ice (and not just by here).

and yes i did watch the gold medal game, and every other game in 2002. but it was 12 years ago, memory isn't that good to remember just how big a rink was compared to another rink.

 

[hitmen19]

"I mean Phoenix never loses. I know they've got a good defense but the guy in net is...they went into San Jose last week and he had 50 shots against. Night after night after night."

"I think it's Price and Smith." "Or do we just put Price in [another] colour and then evaluate the other three."



"What does [Smith] have to do that he hasn't already done." -Holland

"Holtby's a good young goalie. He has his ups and his downs. If we get an injury - two injuries actually - he's in." - Yzerman



"Bernier and Reimer are both really good." -Yzerman


Seems pretty clear cut to me who they are assuming is their number 1

 

[4th_Liner]

i feel better about luongo over carey tbh. but either way goaltending, at least on paper, is not going to be as dominating as the forwards/d group.

 

[Barrie22]

"I mean Phoenix never loses. I know they've got a good defense but the guy in net is...they went into San Jose last week and he had 50 shots against. Night after night after night."

"I think it's Price and Smith." "Or do we just put Price in [another] colour and then evaluate the other three."



"What does [Smith] have to do that he hasn't already done." -Holland

"Holtby's a good young goalie. He has his ups and his downs. If we get an injury - two injuries actually - he's in." - Yzerman



"Bernier and Reimer are both really good." -Yzerman


Seems pretty clear cut to me who they are assuming is their number 1

and again that is the management team saying price is basically on the team (barring some kind of miracle), does not mean that babcock is going to run with him as the starter.

babcock is already having disputes with the management team of who should and shouldn't be on the actual team. who's to say he isn't going to go with the guy who proved to him that he can deal with the pressure, and win the big game when needed (loungo).

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

well that is my bad, guess i should not be listening to analysts any more when it comes to creating team canada. considering it has been talked about non stop about how canada can't win on big ice (and not just by here).

and yes i did watch the gold medal game, and every other game in 2002. but it was 12 years ago, memory isn't that good to remember just how big a rink was compared to another rink.

No worries, buddy. 99% of the posters here, at one time or another, assumed it was on the small ice because it was played in the U.S.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

well that is my bad, guess i should not be listening to analysts any more when it comes to creating team canada. considering it has been talked about non stop about how canada can't win on big ice (and not just by here).

and yes i did watch the gold medal game, and every other game in 2002. but it was 12 years ago, memory isn't that good to remember just how big a rink was compared to another rink.

Had I not had a nagging feeling that it was big ice, I wouldn't have looked up it. It makes sense that Salt Lake City was Big Ice, that rink was built for the Olympics.

 

[Barrie22]

i feel better about luongo over carey tbh. but either way goaltending, at least on paper, is not going to be as dominating as the forwards/d group.

i don't care who the starter is, just don't **** up like brodeur did and almost cost the team a chance to win.

 

[4th_Liner]

i don't care who the starter is, just don't **** up like brodeur did and almost cost the team a chance to win.

the good news is that we'll have the round-robin games to audition

 

[Leafsdude7]

People are calling me out on the Weber flash and dash comment. This is what I wss responding to. Should have quoted it originally.

If you read the quote again, you'll see that I'm saying Weber is as good at playing a quiet, steady game as Subban is at flash-and-dash.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

the good news is that we'll have the round-robin games to audition

The bad news is, with all due respect to Finland, there are no real challenges.

I have always believed the best thing that happened to us in 2010 was losing to the U.S.

 

[hitmen19]

well that is my bad, guess i should not be listening to analysts any more when it comes to creating team canada. considering it has been talked about non stop about how canada can't win on big ice (and not just by here).

and yes i did watch the gold medal game, and every other game in 2002. but it was 12 years ago, memory isn't that good to remember just how big a rink was compared to another rink.

its talked about non stop from people that want to create a story and don't know what their talking about. No one points to other countries records.

Russia hasn't won a gold medal at any of the best on best Olympics, came the closest in nagano with silver, lost in regulation to the team that Canada lost in a shootout. Lost to finland 4-0 in torino and the usa in salt lake. Went from 1994 to 2008 without winning one gold medal at the senior mens WC, and amazingly only had one silver, and two bronzes in that 14 years.

Sweden has won only 3 golds from 1993 at the worlds senior mens. They got gold in torino but also lost 5-0 and 3-0 in that tourney. They haven't even medaled in the other two Olympics on big ice.

Canada doesn't win gold in nagano but lost in a shootout in semifinals, and lost 2-0 to the other superpower in torino when they took a horrible team for the big ice and won gold in 2002.

But wow, Canada goes 6 years without winning gold at the senior mens WC's and the narrative becomes Canada can't win on the big ice.

How come not the same narrative for Sweden and Russia.

 

[hitmen19]

and again that is the management team saying price is basically on the team (barring some kind of miracle), does not mean that babcock is going to run with him as the starter.

babcock is already having disputes with the management team of who should and shouldn't be on the actual team. who's to say he isn't going to go with the guy who proved to him that he can deal with the pressure, and win the big game when needed (loungo).

again it is just one piece of evidence that indicates all arrows are pointing towards price as the starting goalie, not the only one. Price is the only goalie that has been a lock from the start. Don't you think if they thought luongo was, he would be a lock.

And the fact that the game everyone keeps referring to was 2010, its now 2014. Luongo has also melted in that time as evidenced in game 6 in Stanley cup finals, been demoted to second string last year, gotten 4 years older. And after watching the game again last night, almost ****ed up the gold medal game by not catching the puck that led to the praise goal to tie it up, I really doubt just because luongo won in 2010, he is automatically the starter

The starter is what goalie is playing the best Right now. Price has been Canada's best goalie the last two years. You start the best now. If luongo was playing the best now, you start him, he isn't, price is.

 

[Barrie22]

The bad news is, with all due respect to Finland, there are no real challenges.

I have always believed the best thing that happened to us in 2010 was losing to the U.S.

i wouldn't count out the fins, they always seem to be. but then comes the medal ceremonies and there they are on the podium.

2 bronze and a silver in the past 4 olympics.

 

[hitmen19]

The bad news is, with all due respect to Finland, there are no real challenges.

I have always believed the best thing that happened to us in 2010 was losing to the U.S.

being challenged would have been a great thing for the players and fans. The only worry is going to be Norway and Austria are going to be little more then exhibition games. Finland, the only reasonable game. That's why I say the goalie that they choose for starter, if he loses Canada's out. Canada isn't losing in qualification, if they lose, they will lose in elimination games

 

[4th_Liner]

for the first time since i can remember, i actually feel we are so much more dominant comparing to the competition.. is it the competition that has regressed (i.e., sweden) or we are striking gold with this generation?

 

[CornKicker]

i wouldn't count out the fins, they always seem to be. but then comes the medal ceremonies and there they are on the podium.

2 bronze and a silver in the past 4 olympics.

its beacuse they have the opposite problem of canada

Rask, Raanta, Lehtonen this year

Kiprusoff, Rinne, backstrom in the past they are stacked in net

 

[Barrie22]

being challenged would have been a great thing for the players and fans. The only worry is going to be Norway and Austria are going to be little more then exhibition games. Finland, the only reasonable game. That's why I say the goalie that they choose for starter, if he loses Canada's out. Canada isn't losing in qualification, if they lose, they will lose in elimination games

they almost lost to the swiss in 2010 also (shootout), and then lost to the americans in the preliminary rounds in 2010.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

i wouldn't count out the fins, they always seem to be. but then comes the medal ceremonies and there they are on the podium.

2 bronze and a silver in the past 4 olympics.

Good point.

Canada isn't losing in qualification, if they lose, they will lose in elimination games

Sad but true.

 

[hitmen19]

they almost lost to the swiss in 2010 also (shootout), and then lost to the americans in the preliminary rounds in 2010.

yeah I saw those games. That's my point, with this set of games, I don't think we have that scare. Swiss is head and shoulders above Austria and Norway. We won't be getting that test, eventhough it would be a good thing if we did. I just don't see Canada losing to finland, that is the only meaningful game we will have to judge our lines etc.

I like the torino set up better. 6 team divisions, you play 5 round robin games and then 3 more to win gold.

 

[hitmen19]

its beacuse they have the opposite problem of canada

Rask, Raanta, Lehtonen this year

Kiprusoff, Rinne, backstrom in the past they are stacked in net

also in hindsight, they were happy to win bronze, where Canada was still devastated they didn't win gold. Gretzky even says his one regret was that the team weren't motivated after losing the semifinals to come out and win the bronze. They were still in shock, and felt all the heat at the time about not shooting, letting Canada down etc.

where as finland still felt like they had a lot to play for and it showed in the game

 

[hitmen19]

Good point.



Sad but true.

we'll not losing isn't sad. I would love to go undefeated to win the gold. With the set up this year, I think this will be the first Olympics that the gold medalist will be.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

we'll not losing isn't sad. I would love to go undefeated to win the gold. With the set up this year, I think this will be the first Olympics that the gold medalist will be.

Fair enough.

What I meant is, most teams need a loss to bring them together. Most teams some adversity to win a big tournament. For Canada, that loss will mean we are out.

 

[therealdeal]

The bad news is, with all due respect to Finland, there are no real challenges.

I have always believed the best thing that happened to us in 2010 was losing to the U.S.

I sincerely hope the team doesn't have this mentality. In 06 we lossed to the Fins and Czechs and Swiss, all of which were probably considered "not real challenges".