Prospect Info: 2013 Draft Thread: "Shoo-in for Nichushkin"

[nando2392]

Ristolainen with our 1st round pickl. Trade the two 2nd round picks and get hovart, lazar or gauthier

 

[McDoused]

You consider Moroz a safe pick? He's the definition of a risk/reward pick.

If he was a 3rd or fourth rounder he would be a safe pick. The only thing that makes him risky is that he was taken in the early second.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

Ristolainen with our 1st round pickl. Trade the two 2nd round picks and get hovart, lazar or gauthier

ideal, but unlikely

 

[The Nuge]

There is not a whole lot of potential here. Rajala is an extremely long shot, his good AHL season notwithstanding. Ditto for Gernat. Barring an epidemics of injuries, Davidson will have to make very significant progress to even get a cup of coffee in the NHL in the next few seasons. But he's a good project.

That's all most people are. All I'm saying is we do have prospects showings potential

Why Monahan though, it seems that all the scouting agencies have Lindholm being the better prospect. Are we just high on Monahan because of his size?

Better fit. I don't see that much of a difference. It's not like we're talking Malkin vs Barker

You consider Moroz a safe pick? He's the definition of a risk/reward pick.

He is fairly safe in that even if he doesn't really pan out, you'll probably still get a decent 4th liner

 

[tiger_80]

That's all most people are. All I'm saying is we do have prospects showings potential



Better fit. I don't see that much of a difference. It's not like we're talking Malkin vs Barker



He is fairly safe in that even if he doesn't really pan out, you'll probably still get a decent 4th liner

I don't understand why people still complain about Moroz pick. It's well known that last year's draft was prettty shallow. It's not like players they could have taken in that spot are doing much better. Ott/Prust types are valuable players to have on the team. IMHO, Moroz has a very good chance to end up being just that for the Oilers in 2-3 years.

 

[The Nuge]

I don't understand why people still complain about Moroz pick. It's well known that last year's draft was prettty shallow. It's not like players they could have taken in that spot are doing much better. Ott/Prust types are valuable players to have on the team. IMHO, Moroz has a very good chance to end up being just that for the Oilers in 2-3 years.

Agreed. They're especially good when you can get them without having to pay $2.5+ million a season for them

 

[McDoused]

I don't understand why people still complain about Moroz pick. It's well known that last year's draft was prettty shallow. It's not like players they could have taken in that spot are doing much better. Ott/Prust types are valuable players to have on the team. IMHO, Moroz has a very good chance to end up being just that for the Oilers in 2-3 years.

Next year will be a huge year or Moroz. He will actually be given a top 6 role and prove that he can prove he can do more then check.

 

[nando2392]

If we could somehow get a first round pick for our 2 seconds we could fix small holes in the team with this draft.

Draft: Monahan/Nichushkin/Nurse/ Ristolainen/Lindhom/Barkov 7th overall and Lazar/Pulock/Morrissey/Gauthier/hovart/Rychel with our second first round.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Sean Monahan easily. I don't understand the Lindholm hype. Monahan had no help on his team whatsoever this season and produced respectable numbers.

He's got more legit top-line C offensive talent than Monahan IMO. Better vision, better play-making ability, and more likely to put up points and create for his wingers. Monahan is more likely to excel in his 2nd line C role than Lindholm is in a 1C role. They're both lauded for their 2-way play, but I feel Monahan is a step above Lindholm in that regard. His size and style are more conducive to playing against physical C's as well.

Because we have RNH, Monahan is the logical choice with that pick. More secure of a pick to address an organizational need. But I can see the "hype" around Lindholm for other teams. There's a reason he's ranked above Monahan in this draft. We're spoiled with top-line talent in previous drafts - some teams are still looking for it.

A team like CGY would really benefit from having a 1C like Lindholm heading into the future. But methinks that Feaster will figure a guy like Monahan is necessary to play in the new division next year.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Next year will be a huge year or Moroz. He will actually be given a top 6 role and prove that he can prove he can do more then check.

I feel that his career will go the way of Curtis Hamilton. In my limited viewings this year I was kind of frustrated with his play.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

So just went through all the teams and who they have drafted and have played on their teams (since 2008 draft and on). Here is the list. Its not comprehensive and I might have missed a few players since I went through it quickly. Players in brackets are potential players - guys that might have played a few games but aren't 100% established:

• Anaheim - Fowler, Etem, Palmieri, Smith-Pelley (maybe can include Holland)
• Boston - Seguin, Hamilton
• Buffalo - Kassian, Myers, Ennis, Foligno, Pysyk, Grigorenko
• Calgary - Brodie, Bartschi, Erixon
• Carolina - Skinner, Faulk, McBain
• Chicago - Kruger, Pirri, Saad
• Columbus - Johansen, Calvert, Atkinson, Murray, Moore, (Jenner)
• Colorado - Duchene, RoR, Landeskog, Barrie, Elliot
• Dallas - Oleksiak, Chiasson
• Detroit - Tatar, Nyquist, (Sheahan)
• Edmonton - Yak, Hall, Ebs, Nuge, MPS, (Harti, Lander)
• Florida - Huberdeau, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Bjugstad, Howden, Kulikov, Shore
• LA - B. Schenn, Clifford, Nolan, Doughty, Voynov, Lokhtoniov
• Minnesota - Brodin, Granlund, Zucker, Leddy, (Hackett)
• Montreal - Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gallagher, (M. Ellis - should play in NHL)
• Nashville - Watson, Ellis, G. Bourque
• New Jersey - Larsson, Matteau, Josefson, Henrique, (Tedenby has played but is trending toward bust)
• NYI - Tavares, Cizikas, Hamonic, Martin, Bailey, J. Spurgeon
• NYR - Miller, Kreider, Del Zotto, Stepan
• Ottawa - Zibanejad, Pageau, Cowen, Silferberg, Lehner, EK, Weircioch, Smith
• PHI - Couts, Rinaldo, Sbisa
• PHX - OEL, Boedker
• Pit - Bennet, Despres
• SJ - Coyle, Demers, Wingels --> Coyle is a MIN pick
• St. Louis - Tarasenko, Schwartz, Pietrangelo, Allen
• Tampa - Connolly, Gudas, Hedman
• Vancouver - Corrado, Schroeder, Hodgson
• Washington - Eakin, Orlov, Johansson, Forsberg, Wilson
• Winnipeg - Burmistrov, E. Kane

In my opinion the Oilers aren't a bottom 10 drafting team but to each his own. Obviously still way to early to say anything definitively......but here is an early look.....

Nice list, must have taken some time to compile. I'm going to bold players that weren't taken in the first round just to exemplify IATL's point of post-1st round drafting practices.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Lindholm and Monahan are kind of a wash for me. Monahan is more likley to stick at centre or is safer to stay at centre than Lindholm is. Monahan has a more all around game than Lindholm but Lindholm is no slouch. Lindholm however is more likley going to produce offence at a much higher rate he looks to me like a more physical version of the nuge.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

That's all most people are. All I'm saying is we do have prospects showings potential



Better fit. I don't see that much of a difference. It's not like we're talking Malkin vs Barker



He is fairly safe in that even if he doesn't really pan out, you'll probably still get a decent 4th liner

Lindholm vs Monahan?

Think of a "lite" version of Backstrom vs J.Staal.

One has a ton of skill but didn't have that "sure thing" of making the NHL, while one was an NHL-ready player at 18, albeit with lesser offensive potential and "flash".

Lindholm doesn't have the 100pt potential of Backstrom, and Monahan isn't necessarily NHL-ready. But I think it's more than a safe bet that Monahan makes it as a 2C/3C, while Lindholm may or may not translate his SEL offensive success into NHL numbers. He may be forced down the lineup into a 2C role which he may not excel in.

 

[LaGu]

Lindholm vs Monahan?

Think of a "lite" version of Backstrom vs J.Staal.

One has a ton of skill but didn't have that "sure thing" of making the NHL, while one was an NHL-ready player at 18, albeit with lesser offensive potential and "flash".

Lindholm doesn't have the 100pt potential of Backstrom, and Monahan isn't necessarily NHL-ready. But I think it's more than a safe bet that Monahan makes it as a 2C/3C, while Lindholm may or may not translate his SEL offensive success into NHL numbers. He may be forced down the lineup into a 2C role which he may not excel in.

I like the Backstrom comparison, although I agree with you in that I don't think that Lindholm has Backstrom, 100pt, potential.

It's fun to play the numbers/stats game here though since they grew up playing for the same club in Sweden.

Season before draft year season:
Backstrom
J20 29GP 17G 17A 34P
SEL 19GP 0G 0A 0P
Lindholm
J20 38GP 15G 36A 51P
SEL 14GP 0G 0A 0P

Draft year season:
Backstrom
SEL 46GP 10G 16A 27P
Lindholm
SEL 48GP 11G 19A 30P


Ergo: Lindholm > Backstrom!

 

[The Perfect Human*]

I like the Backstrom comparison, although I agree with you in that I don't think that Lindholm has Backstrom, 100pt, potential.

It's fun to play the numbers/stats game here though since they grew up playing for the same club in Sweden.

Season before draft year season:
Backstrom
J20 29GP 17G 17A 34P
SEL 19GP 0G 0A 0P
Lindholm
J20 38GP 15G 36A 51P
SEL 14GP 0G 0A 0P

Draft year season:
Backstrom
SEL 46GP 10G 16A 27P
Lindholm
SEL 48GP 11G 19A 30P


Ergo: Lindholm > Backstrom!

Interesting you point that out.

draft year WJHC:
Backstrom - 7p in 6gp
Lindholm - 4p in 6gp

Another thing to consider is that Backstrom led Brynas in scoring in his draft year. That's pretty amazing in the SEL. Him and Lindholm both are born late in their birth-years, so have a bit of an advantage over their fellow draftees.

Lindholm is 3rd in scoring with Brynas this year, playing with a highly-touted Detroit prospect in Calle Jarnkrok (his cousin).
The Brynas team Lindholm's playing on has much more scoring depth than the one Backstrom is playing on, and I feel that may have contributed a bit to his numbers.

I feel the key difference between these two players is the size. Backstrom is 6'1, 210lb. IIRC at his draft he was already about 200lb. Lindholm is 6' 192lb. There's about a 20lb difference between the two atm.

Backstrom actually uses his body more than he gets credit for. He shields away defenders using his size, and is actually very solid along the boards when fighting for pucks. Lindholm also shows the ability to use his body on both sides of the puck, but I doubt it will be effective l in the new division the Oilers are going into.

That being said, these guys' bread-and-butter is their vision, puck skills, and ability to control and read the play. I feel Lindholm's defensive game is actually better than Backstrom's at the same age - however Backstrom learned the 2-way game at a Kopitar-like pace in his first 2-3 seasons in the NHL, and IMO is one of the top-10 2-way centers in the game today.

I don't think the physical build will necessarily make that much of a difference when it comes to differences between Backstrom and Lindholm. Both are quick, both use hockey sense to avoid having to engage physically more than they need to, and both have elite vision and passing ability. However, I remember McGuire exclaiming "this kid is NHL ready" when the Caps picked Backstrom in 2006. I doubt anyone will be making those claims for Lindholm when he gets picked, regardless of his SEL point totals.

 

[Panda Bear]

Except Backstrom lead his team in points with 26 (second highest was 24) whereas Lindholm was third on his team in points (second at 36, first at 42).

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Except Backstrom lead his team in points with 26 (second highest was 24) whereas Lindholm was third on his team in points (second at 36, first at 42).

SEL Leading scorer in Backstrom's year had 55 points

This year the leading scorer put up 71 points.

7 years is a pretty long time, and I think that league has seen a shift towards higher scoring totals over the past while.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Lindholm video. He's doing things in a professional league we'd be drooling over North American prospects for doing in the CHL.

He's less of a perimeter player than Backstrom, who prefers to patrol the periphery and slow the game down to find his wingers.
Lindholm doesn't necessarily dislike holding onto the puck, but he makes plays with it quicker than someone like Backstrom would (doesn't necessarily slow down the game). He'll crash the front of the net, he'll throw hits more than your average top-6 SEL player, and he's got that same play-making ability in tight quarters that Backstrom/Ribeiro have.

He's much stronger on his feet than I thought he'd be. Likely due to a peculiar wide-stance he has when he skates. If you watch the video it doesn't seem to affect his top speed at all, and if anything it lowers his center of gravity and gives him a bit more immovability while with the puck.

Very interesting player. Most of my assessments regarding his play had been from watching the WJHC. But these highlight packages reveal that the same style of play has transferred seamlessly into the Swedish pro game.

 

[VictorLustig]

There is no way Nichuskin is available at #7, to me he is the BPA.

For offense: I would select Barkov but he shouldn't be available, so I'd be happy with either Monahan or Lindholm.

For defence: I am sold on Zadorov. 6'5 and 230lbs already, big hitter and plays great defence. I'm on the Zadorov wagon. Imagine the future on Edmonton's blueline, a lot of size and hard to play against.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/21/nikita-zadorov-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-12/

Nichushkin gets way too much hype for my taste, don't think he'll even go top-10. He can score highlight reel goals with his skating and power but that's about it. He is like Paajarvi in many ways.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

As for Barkov, I find some similarities to Kopitar/Thornton with the way he plays the game. Big frame, good hands for his size, and a solid combination of passing/shooting ability.

His skating's a bit iffy at this point, and I'd suggest he spend one more year in Europe a la Kopitar/Backstrom developing the finer points of his game (face-offs, speed) before he comes over.

But like Monahan - he's your prototypical West Coast hockey player. He goes to the dirty areas, takes hits to make plays, and seems virtually immovable (at least in the FNL/WJHC) when people try to hit him. That kind of rock-solid player is someone you build around.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Nichushkin gets way too much hype for my taste, don't think he'll even go top-10. He can score highlight reel goals with his skating and power but that's about it. He is like Paajarvi in many ways.

That's the biggest difference between MPS and Nichushkin. MPS never showed any power in his game. Nichushkin barrels through guys.

As for what you just said. Ironic isn't it? A Canadian version of that very same player came by about 10-11 years ago - played the exact same style, producing "highlight reel goals" because of "skating and power". You forgot to mention world-class hands/skill that contributed to it. His name is Rick Nash.

I'm not really a fan of Rick Nash. In my mind one of the more overrated, overpaid players in the league. But a lot of people recognize him as a superstar in this league. I'd be happy to land one of those at #7.

 

[LaGu]

Interesting you point that out.

Another thing to consider is that Backstrom led Brynas in scoring in his draft year. That's pretty amazing in the SEL.

Except Backstrom lead his team in points with 26 (second highest was 24) whereas Lindholm was third on his team in points (second at 36, first at 42).

I don't think that leading your team or being 3rd makes that much of a difference in these cases but if the point is to say that Backstrom was a better prospect than Lindholm I agree (and for point total winners, this hasn't changed so much, check 06/07 vs the last two seasons, it goes up and down from season to season even though a slight increase in points production is evident).

The statistics was just fun to point out seeing as they were playing for the same club and that there are so many people who use numbers, and nothing else, to evaluate players.

The point was to say that Lindholm is for real and he would be an excellent pick at 7th overall any draft year (this included). In my own list of favorites for our 7th pick I do actually put Monahan ahead of Lindholm. That being said, I'd be thrilled with anyone of them. IMO a case can be made that BPA after Seth Jones are one of McK, Bark, Mon and Lind, even ahead of Drouin, Nurse and Nich. Seeing as we need a center I feel very good about going into this draft and I will continue to feel good about it until we screw up and pick the wrong guy at 7th...

 

[SHO NUFF*]

Nichushkin gets way too much hype for my taste, don't think he'll even go top-10. He can score highlight reel goals with his skating and power but that's about it. He is like Paajarvi in many ways.

Sounds like some other teams disagree with your take on Nichushkin...

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 3 min
Unless he's putting up a smokescreen, I believe Murray has Nichushkin ranked No. 1 on the Lightning's list. Yzerman can override that.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
Transfer issues could affect the pick, obviously, but Yzerman has never been one to draft for immediate results. He'll take best in 5-7 yrs.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
If comes down to player type for slot (i.e. playmaking winger for Stamkos), he could go Drouin, but said Drouin isn't MSL caliber.

Nichushkin draft speculation out of Tampa

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/russian-wing-nichushkin-presents-lightning-draft-dilemma/2120464

 

[VictorLustig]

Except Backstrom lead his team in points with 26 (second highest was 24) whereas Lindholm was third on his team in points (second at 36, first at 42).

He wouldn't have lead his team if there was a Jarnkrok or Gunderson on it though. Scoring in the SEL has also dropped since the 05/06 season with -0.5 goals per game. Both guys played on pretty bad teams.

 

[VictorLustig]

Sounds like some other teams disagree with your take on Nichushkin...

I think these are just smokescreens, just like Filip Forsberg last year. There is no way team scouts/GM's would reveal these kind of things. I saw Nichushkin play at the U18's recently and I don't think anyone walked away impressed.