2013 AA Preliminary Round: Edmonton vs. Boston
- Thread starter seventieslord
- Start date
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
PP Lines
Hagman - Wilson - Laich
Lanz - Radulov
Lewicki - Meehan - Clowe
Nummelin - Hemsky
Forwards on D, to be used more on the half wall, in more of a diamond formation. Laich and Clowe and used to stand infront of the net
PK Lines
Laich-McClement
Orpik-Girardi
Wilson-McIntyre
Staal-Loughlin
Hagman - Wilson - Laich
Lanz - Radulov
Lewicki - Meehan - Clowe
Nummelin - Hemsky
Forwards on D, to be used more on the half wall, in more of a diamond formation. Laich and Clowe and used to stand infront of the net
PK Lines
Laich-McClement
Orpik-Girardi
Wilson-McIntyre
Staal-Loughlin
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Just skimming through some bios I won't really have time till Saturday to really dive into this but some preliminary thoughts.
Top Lines - Radulov I think is probably the best offensive player in the series but maybe I'm a tad bias. Your top line is definitely built to play both ends of the ice, but I'd rather keep top lines away from each other. I actually really wanted Horton but alas you grabbed him from me.
2nd Lines - Need more time to dig into this
3rd Lines - We have a clear difference in philosophy for third lines, yours appears to be more offensive, mine is more a crash the net soft shutdown line, that can chip in some offence.
4th Lines - Both seem to kind of be spare parts thrown together to compliment our rosters.
Top D Pairings - Mine is built to be my shutdown pairing, both your D seem to be extremely good puck movers at this level. While Orpik and Girardi are going to go against your best offensive options.
2nd D Pairings - More offensive D from your team, but at least Newell has some supporting evidence that he could play defence. I in place put my offensive D man in Lanz with another defensive specialist in Staal. Staal can move the puck. Difference in philosophies, more offence from you and little safer from me.
3rd D Pairings - Not tons of info on Loughlin but it's said he played both ends of the rink, and again paired him with a more pure offensive guy in Nummelin. Your pairings are physical and seem to be good defensively.
Goaltending -Valtonen has an impressive track record, but so does Grahame. It's also extremely hard to compare Giroux but I'd say he's worthy of being on this level.
My lack of offensive D compared to you, I think is appropriate given Cheevers preference that his D stay back to prevent high percentage chances,
Obviously I'm new at this and this is just some preliminary thoughts to get the conversation going.
Top Lines - Radulov I think is probably the best offensive player in the series but maybe I'm a tad bias. Your top line is definitely built to play both ends of the ice, but I'd rather keep top lines away from each other. I actually really wanted Horton but alas you grabbed him from me.
2nd Lines - Need more time to dig into this
3rd Lines - We have a clear difference in philosophy for third lines, yours appears to be more offensive, mine is more a crash the net soft shutdown line, that can chip in some offence.
4th Lines - Both seem to kind of be spare parts thrown together to compliment our rosters.
Top D Pairings - Mine is built to be my shutdown pairing, both your D seem to be extremely good puck movers at this level. While Orpik and Girardi are going to go against your best offensive options.
2nd D Pairings - More offensive D from your team, but at least Newell has some supporting evidence that he could play defence. I in place put my offensive D man in Lanz with another defensive specialist in Staal. Staal can move the puck. Difference in philosophies, more offence from you and little safer from me.
3rd D Pairings - Not tons of info on Loughlin but it's said he played both ends of the rink, and again paired him with a more pure offensive guy in Nummelin. Your pairings are physical and seem to be good defensively.
Goaltending -Valtonen has an impressive track record, but so does Grahame. It's also extremely hard to compare Giroux but I'd say he's worthy of being on this level.
My lack of offensive D compared to you, I think is appropriate given Cheevers preference that his D stay back to prevent high percentage chances,
Obviously I'm new at this and this is just some preliminary thoughts to get the conversation going.
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BubbaBoot
Registered User
PK 1
Laaksonen - Vermette / Harrison
Partinen - Klee
PK 2
Dupuis - Regan / Harrison
Genge - Newell
PP 1
Pettersson - Helminen - Horton
Jutila - Kadlec
PP 2
McCarthy - Lorentz - Erat
Newell - Klee
Laaksonen - Vermette / Harrison
Partinen - Klee
PK 2
Dupuis - Regan / Harrison
Genge - Newell
PP 1
Pettersson - Helminen - Horton
Jutila - Kadlec
PP 2
McCarthy - Lorentz - Erat
Newell - Klee
BubbaBoot
Registered User
Horton can be a bit inconsistent but he thrives in playoff situations since going to the Bruins and being exposed to them. Pettersson has very good offensive capabilities and two way play while Helminen is a great playmaker in the international scene, after leaving North America due to back problems, which almost ended his career.
Both have decent offensive capabilitles with Radulov being the most dynamic.. Boston has a better two-way game with enough punch and creativity to keep Edmonton on their heels
McCarthy was a juniors bomber and scored at a fairly decent rate while pegged as the North Stars savior....but he partied himself out of a career. Be it as it may, he's probably the most offensively gifted for either 2nd line. Harrison and Lorentz were originally spare parts on their original teams but flourished when they were traded away, with Harrison, a bit of a tougher demeanor, thriving in the WHA.
Dupuis is a PK regular for his teams and Erat did get a stray Selke vote in his career. At the very least they are responsible defensively.
No, I usually have 3rd down shutdown and 4th line energy but I liked the two way capabilites of my 3rd line and made my 4th more defensively oriented.
Laaksonen was a defensive specialist and a PK stalwart on a defensive oriented Minny Wild team. Vermette is also a very solid two way oriented player, 4th in SH goals (18) in the last 10 years of the NHL and is a extremely good at faceoffs, one of the top in the NHL. Regan was used on the PK throughout his career in the original 6.
"Regan, an excellent skater, stickhandler and penalty-killer who often scored when his team was short-handed, played five seasons in the NHL with Boston and Toronto. He won the Calder Trophy as the league's top rookie in 1956-57 after recording 33 points with the Bruins. In 280 career games, Regan recorded 41 goals and 95 assists." - SIHR
You might think they're spare parts but my guys ain't.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Regan had five career SHP. 3 goals, 2 assists.
Shorthanded goals didn't happen a lot back then. This many points on the penalty kill is a solid indication that he was probably out there a lot.
Shorthanded goals didn't happen a lot back then. This many points on the penalty kill is a solid indication that he was probably out there a lot.
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BubbaBoot
Registered User
Man, where did you get the special teams stats? Findong them is about as rare as... well, seeing a unicorn.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
BubbaBoot
Registered User
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Yes, there's lots it can tell us when it's all compiled. Aside from special teams, we can see primary and secondary assists, penalty minute breakdowns (fights, aggression penalties vs obstruction Crap), and get an idea of who played with whom (based on ES points scored together).
Oh, and it's also filled in all the save percentage gaps going back to 1953.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
While Partinen was adequate with a couple of spikes offensively, he was known more to be a very good defensive oriented headhunter, or in one infamous incident, a knee bender. He is also in the Finnish HoF. Kadlec was good offensively but also was solid in his own end.
Jutila was known as an excellent offensively oriented player but made up for his lack of size defensively by being in position, anticipation and "hockey sense". He also had some grit as he had over 700 SM-Liiga and SEL combined games with nearly 850 combined PIMs / 165 combined SM-Liiga and SEL playoff games with nearly 200 PIMs. Shy he ain't. He's all a 5 time SM-Liiga All-Star, a 3 time WC's All-Star, won the SM-Liiga's best defenseman award, has 7 international medlas and belongs in both the IIHF and Finnish Hockey Halls of Fame.
Newell was known as a solid guy in his own end and could contribute on the offense. Despite short in stature he played tough, leading the WCHL in PIMs one year.
Yes
Valtonen was named Best GK in the 72 WC's and was also the Finnish Player of the Year that season as well as being a 5 time top GK in Finland and 2 SM-Liiga championships. Briza has a fairly similar resume with Valtonen....4 Czech league championships, 5 Bronze medals in the WC's and Olympics, also once named as the best WC GK, 1 Finnish best GK award, 3 Czech best GK awards, 3 Czech league playoff MVP awards and all-star nods in the SM-Liiga, Czech Extra-Liga, the WC's and the European Hockey League.
Grahame had a nice few years in the WHA. After a solid year with the Bruins he was traded to the Kings for their 1st round draft pick, (which ended up being Raymond Bourque), and then started to drop off....badly. If you want me to be honest, I'd put Giroux as the #1. Hard to judge given the vast differences o\in the eras but he seems to be a winner.
Your guys had some nice spikes, once winning the Stanley Cup at the turn of the 20th century, but their careers were drastically short. My guys have made long and successful careers with numerous awards and championships. We could battle between the worthiness of North Americans vs Euros but I don't think it's even close.
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ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
I'll have some more tomorrow, but this is going to come down to the value of European domestic leagues.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
I'm three sheets to the wind at the moment, so I'm keen on going down memory lane:
Ruzicka was a hellavu player but at the moment draw a blank as coach. Horton is two times the player that Lucic is, Erat impressed the hell out of me in the Memorial Cup tourney (I saw every game) and he brought his strengths to the Predators: skating, puck protection, hockey sense and decent passing as well as defensive positioning. Preds fans were very upset when he went to Washington in the overhyped Fedor Fedorov deal (as a fan of both clubs I could write a book on that trade's reaction). Laaksonen is a GREAT Bottom-6 forward in a defensive role. He knew where to skate and how to disrupt rushes, passes and moves. Vermette is eh in my books, more an average NHLer whose stats may merit the fourth line Double-A Draft role he's been placed in. Bouchard is an excellent spare given he was praised by at least three sources on his defensive play as both forward and dman. Klee is one of those dmen outside of the top-3 of any good team who does his job and does it well in a non-flashy manner. I liked him and the third pairing of the Double-A draft he certainly belongs as respect. Laus I recall as a lunchbucket guy who in the right system (like Florida) could be go all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals as a role player.
Did Plante have much goaltending coaching experience? Great players have been known to be lousy coaches (the rep existed before Gretz took the helm in Phoenix). Radulov was a pamped, lazy egomaniac in Nashville but man did he have the tools. He's a question mark on the top line at any level, but certainly CAPABLE of having a big game some of the time (he and Kovalchuk I had a Spidey warning tingling from day one). Hagman
when I'm sober I'll remember why I think so. Hemsky is one of those who suffered from overexpectations: he has been a decent top-6 forward but not a first line star, so as a 2nd liner on a Double-A Draft squad, he should be able to pull his own weight. Clowe!! here is a guy i know from day one, who was a fixture on the Sharks 2nd line left wing when every other player including Thornton played shuffle the deck in terms of lines (and positioning for many other than Thornton). I literally was glum for HOURS after he left San Jose, visably disappointged, it hurt me that much. I thought the Sharks core included him (**** Bonehead Boyle should have been trade before him, if the team wants to win a cup). Laich on my beloved Caps is a stand-up guy who everyone likes and for good reason: he works hard, hustles on every shift, is said to be a drressing room plus (an underrated aspect of team chemistry - along with the effect of leadership and captaincy). McClement I recall pre-draft as a touted future Selke finalist and his game has certainly showed it! Laraque is an impact player belonging on the fourth line of any great team at any level below ATD imo. Hanzal is defintely overrated on the HfBoards imo, but his size and skill on the third line is impressive enough to make him a decent extra skater at this level of all-time draftedness. Girardi is the Man in NY, and is better than whatever stat one may trot out, Staal however is less than the numbers bear out, Orpik has had great success and while I'd never put him on the top pairing of my team at any level, he certainly has a 3/4 slot role on a quality club at many levels of competition. Nummelin impressed internationally and I wish he had impressed me in the NHL. Grahame, eh.
The Jagr-meister is going strong (big bottle deep) and so I've stuck to what I recall from the top of my head that I'm cetain about. there are other comments that I would like to doublecheck before sharing in this quality matchup.
Ruzicka was a hellavu player but at the moment draw a blank as coach. Horton is two times the player that Lucic is, Erat impressed the hell out of me in the Memorial Cup tourney (I saw every game) and he brought his strengths to the Predators: skating, puck protection, hockey sense and decent passing as well as defensive positioning. Preds fans were very upset when he went to Washington in the overhyped Fedor Fedorov deal (as a fan of both clubs I could write a book on that trade's reaction). Laaksonen is a GREAT Bottom-6 forward in a defensive role. He knew where to skate and how to disrupt rushes, passes and moves. Vermette is eh in my books, more an average NHLer whose stats may merit the fourth line Double-A Draft role he's been placed in. Bouchard is an excellent spare given he was praised by at least three sources on his defensive play as both forward and dman. Klee is one of those dmen outside of the top-3 of any good team who does his job and does it well in a non-flashy manner. I liked him and the third pairing of the Double-A draft he certainly belongs as respect. Laus I recall as a lunchbucket guy who in the right system (like Florida) could be go all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals as a role player.
Did Plante have much goaltending coaching experience? Great players have been known to be lousy coaches (the rep existed before Gretz took the helm in Phoenix). Radulov was a pamped, lazy egomaniac in Nashville but man did he have the tools. He's a question mark on the top line at any level, but certainly CAPABLE of having a big game some of the time (he and Kovalchuk I had a Spidey warning tingling from day one). Hagman
when I'm sober I'll remember why I think so. Hemsky is one of those who suffered from overexpectations: he has been a decent top-6 forward but not a first line star, so as a 2nd liner on a Double-A Draft squad, he should be able to pull his own weight. Clowe!! here is a guy i know from day one, who was a fixture on the Sharks 2nd line left wing when every other player including Thornton played shuffle the deck in terms of lines (and positioning for many other than Thornton). I literally was glum for HOURS after he left San Jose, visably disappointged, it hurt me that much. I thought the Sharks core included him (**** Bonehead Boyle should have been trade before him, if the team wants to win a cup). Laich on my beloved Caps is a stand-up guy who everyone likes and for good reason: he works hard, hustles on every shift, is said to be a drressing room plus (an underrated aspect of team chemistry - along with the effect of leadership and captaincy). McClement I recall pre-draft as a touted future Selke finalist and his game has certainly showed it! Laraque is an impact player belonging on the fourth line of any great team at any level below ATD imo. Hanzal is defintely overrated on the HfBoards imo, but his size and skill on the third line is impressive enough to make him a decent extra skater at this level of all-time draftedness. Girardi is the Man in NY, and is better than whatever stat one may trot out, Staal however is less than the numbers bear out, Orpik has had great success and while I'd never put him on the top pairing of my team at any level, he certainly has a 3/4 slot role on a quality club at many levels of competition. Nummelin impressed internationally and I wish he had impressed me in the NHL. Grahame, eh. The Jagr-meister is going strong (big bottle deep) and so I've stuck to what I recall from the top of my head that I'm cetain about. there are other comments that I would like to doublecheck before sharing in this quality matchup.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
Ruzicka as coach;
- 2x Gold World Championships
- 2x Czech Extraliga champion
- 3x Czech Extraliga Coach of the Year
- Rated #6 in the IIHF site feature, Best Coaches of the New Millenium
- 2x Gold World Championships
- 2x Czech Extraliga champion
- 3x Czech Extraliga Coach of the Year
- Rated #6 in the IIHF site feature, Best Coaches of the New Millenium
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Are you double dipping? Was his extraliga champion seasons the same as his world championship seasons? Was his coach of the year the same as his team's extraliga champion seasons?
(A huge pet peeve.)
It looks like 2+2+3=7 years whereas it may be no more than 3 years, really.
Please specify.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
I have a full time job and 2 part time jobs. I'm at work right now, got up at 4 a.m., managing a rink while you were 3sheetfaced. I'm on my cell phone, the flexibility is a bit limited and I got screaming kids throughout the lobby. Normally I specify, right now I can't. Google it.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I don't know if it's a huge deal anyway.
you can be considered the best coach and not win a championship. You can win a championship while not being considered the best coach. Being both at once is a different thing. It's not double dipping.
(I agree with VI to some extent, as it may appear to boost the number of significant seasons, but seasons aren't divided into significant and insignificant, you could also term some "very significant")
you can be considered the best coach and not win a championship. You can win a championship while not being considered the best coach. Being both at once is a different thing. It's not double dipping.
(I agree with VI to some extent, as it may appear to boost the number of significant seasons, but seasons aren't divided into significant and insignificant, you could also term some "very significant")
BubbaBoot
Registered User
a) we're in the Double-AA draft, everyone is juicing stats as best as they can.
b) it's very hard to find accurate season standings and/or stats, especially for pre-80's Euro leagues. Even now, into the new millenium often you have to piece meal it together.
c)if it makes everyone feel better, (now that I'm home before I go off to my skate) here's Ruzicka's coaching record:
2000-2001 Czech Extraliga Runner-up
2002-2003 Czech Extraliga Champion
2002-2003 Czech Extraliga Coach of the Year
2003-2004 Czech Extraliga Runner-up
2004-2005 World Championship Gold Medal
2005-2006 Czech Extraliga Runner-up
2007-2008 Czech Extraliga Champion
2008-2009 Czech Extraliga Coach of the Year
2008-2009 Czech Extraliga Runner-up
2009-2010 World Championship Gold Medal
2010-2011 Czech Extraliga Coach of the Year
2010-2011 Czech Extraliga Runner-up
2x in quarter finals
4x in semi finals
1x no playoffs
- coached the 2010 Czech Olympic team, (lost to Bronze medalists Finland, final ranking was 7th)
- currently Ruzicka is stiil head coach for Slavia Prague, as well now his first year as GM. He is also the head coach for the Czech U20 Juniors.
Only one instance of overlapping.....ya happy now Van?
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ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
BubbaBoot
Registered User
BTW…./.I was at the Bruins game last weekend and, I swear this is true, a guy in the crowd had a Ruzicka / #38 bruins jersey on.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
It's time to vote on the preliminary series.
Boston vs. Sweden and Edmonton vs. Danville.
Please send your votes to Hawkey Town 18 with the winner, number of games, and three stars.
Votes will be accepted from AAA and A draft GMs as well, if they are interested in throwing in their two cents.
Boston vs. Sweden and Edmonton vs. Danville.
Please send your votes to Hawkey Town 18 with the winner, number of games, and three stars.
Votes will be accepted from AAA and A draft GMs as well, if they are interested in throwing in their two cents.
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
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