2000-01 vs 2015-16 Forwards

[theicebox]

Hello, I was thinking about the 2000-01 season, and then started trying to compare our rosters from then and now. How would you compare our forward groups from that year vs this upcoming year?

2000-01 Forwards

Lemieux, Jagr, Hrdina, Straka, Lang, Kovalev, Beranek, Morozov, Stevens

2015-16 Forwards

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Plotnikov, Perron, Hornqvist, Sutter, Kunitz, Dupuis

Any thoughts?

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[eXile59]

How did we not win the cup in 2001? Oh that's right defense and goaltending pretty important.

I hope we don't learn that the hard way again.

 

[TNT87]

How did we not win the cup in 2001? Oh that's right defense and goaltending pretty important.

I hope we don't learn that the hard way again.

The Devils defense shut down the Pens offense in that series. In the four losses they totaled just three goals and were shut out twice. Pretty reminiscent of the recent Pens failures in the postseason.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

The Devils defense shut down the Pens offense in that series. In the four losses they totaled just three goals and were shut out twice. Pretty reminiscent of the recent Pens failures in the postseason.

In that series they got totally dominated, it was pretty depressing to watch after the magic of the first 2 rounds.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Yeah, it was over quick. The playoffs are cruel. Epic wins over the Caps and Sabres, only to get destroyed in 5 games by the Big Red Machine.

 

[plaidchuck]

How did we not win the cup in 2001? Oh that's right defense and goaltending pretty important.

I hope we don't learn that the hard way again.

Well this team has had above average goaltending and defense and still has stunk it up. At this point I'll take an offensive show over three straight 2-1 losses.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Hello, I was thinking about the 2000-01 season, and then started trying to compare our rosters from then and now. How would you compare our forward groups from that year vs this upcoming year?

2000-01 Forwards

Lemieux, Jagr, Hrdina, Straka, Lang, Kovalev, Beranek, Morozov, Stevens

2015-16 Forwards

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Plotnikov, Perron, Hornqvist, Sutter, Kunitz, Dupuis

Any thoughts?

Jagr =Mario > Crosby = Geno= Kovy > Kessel = Straka > Lang, Perron, Horny > others.

Jagr got 121 points that season in the heyday of the dead park era. Kovy and Straka got over 90 points each. Mario 76 points in half the season. Their high end talent wins very easily.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Jagr =Mario > Crosby = Geno= Kovy > Kessel = Straka > Lang, Perron, Horny > others.

Jagr got 121 points that season in the heyday of the dead park era. Kovy and Straka got over 90 points each. Mario 76 points in half the season. Their high end talent wins very easily.

True, but that team had no one like a Letang and Hedberg isn't the Flower.

 

[KIRK]

How did we not win the cup in 2001? Oh that's right defense and goaltending pretty important.

I hope we don't learn that the hard way again.

With only two scoring lines and a team built around their best players, that 2001 team went further than any balanced Pens team since 2009.

EDIT: Mario-Hrdina-Jagr + KLS . . . I'd take those two lines in action over what the Pens will give you from their top six forwards unless it's Perron-Sid-Horny and Plots-Geno-Kessel (but that's not what we'll see). I'd also take coaches in 2001 who were more willing to ride their top players.

 

[billybudd]

That team's forward group was way better. More skilled and enormous, back when size meant even more than it does now.

Problem was less the defense (though, obviously, the D wasn't a murderer's row) and more that in the Hlinka era, there wasn't any disciplined systemic play. He tried to implement a conservative left-wing-lock, Jagr said they wouldn't play it and that was that. Hlinka spent the rest of his time here smoking cigarettes outside the arena when he wasn't required to be on the bench. Eked past a disciplined systemic team once, but twice in a row was too much to ask.

Two other problems were that

1. the Devils were really, really good in those years. There's no shame in losing to that team at all.

2. by the conference finals, Jagr had quit on the team. There's a story from an overtime game against Buffalo where Jagr was talking to his stockbroker between periods in an OT game (against Buffalo?) and Bergevin grabbed the phone out of his hand, smashing it. True or not, by the Jersey series, Jags was "Goncharing" every play on every shift. His attitude in that series--more than money or a trade demand--is what got him shipped out of town.

 

[Asuna]

2. by the conference finals, Jagr had quit on the team. There's a story from an overtime game against Buffalo where Jagr was talking to his stockbroker between periods in an OT game (against Buffalo?) and Bergevin grabbed the phone out of his hand, smashing it. True or not, by the Jersey series, Jags was "Goncharing" every play on every shift. His attitude in that series--more than money or a trade demand--is what got him shipped out of town.

hahaha that's hilarious

 

[KIRK]

That team's forward group was way better. More skilled and enormous, back when size meant even more than it does now.

Problem was less the defense (though, obviously, the D wasn't a murderer's row) and more that in the Hlinka era, there wasn't any disciplined systemic play. He tried to implement a conservative left-wing-lock, Jagr said they wouldn't play it and that was that. Hlinka spent the rest of his time here smoking cigarettes outside the arena when he wasn't required to be on the bench. Eked past a disciplined systemic team once, but twice in a row was too much to ask.

Two other problems were that

1. the Devils were really, really good in those years. There's no shame in losing to that team at all.

2. by the conference finals, Jagr had quit on the team. There's a story from an overtime game against Buffalo where Jagr was talking to his stockbroker between periods in an OT game (against Buffalo?) and Bergevin grabbed the phone out of his hand, smashing it. True or not, by the Jersey series, Jags was "Goncharing" every play on every shift. His attitude in that series--more than money or a trade demand--is what got him shipped out of town.

That was an exciting couple of months and one charmed hockey team . . . and the end of an era.

 

[hiptanaka]

I'm still impressed by Lemieux's performance that season. Hadn't played a game in 3 and a half years, and was turning 36 later that year, and yet he scores 35 goals and averages 1.77 points/game over half a season. Simply unreal.

 

[eXile59]

With only two scoring lines and a team built around their best players, that 2001 team went further than any balanced Pens team since 2009.

EDIT: Mario-Hrdina-Jagr + KLS . . . I'd take those two lines in action over what the Pens will give you from their top six forwards unless it's Perron-Sid-Horny and Plots-Geno-Kessel (but that's not what we'll see). I'd also take coaches in 2001 who were more willing to ride their top players.

We were beat by a balanced Devils team.

I feel like teams like this and others are part of the reason people have come so forward crazy.

From 1993 to 2001 we had some of the best forward groups in the game and didn't win a single Cup. I feel like we have become very nostalgic about these teams and because of it are making the same mistakes.

 

[cajal]

We were beat by a balanced Devils team.

I feel like teams like this and others are part of the reason people have come so forward crazy.

From 1993 to 2001 we had some of the best forward groups in the game and didn't win a single Cup. I feel like we have become very nostalgic about these teams and because of it are making the same mistakes.

Or... The reason the Pens have been eliminated recently in the playoffs was lack of scoring, not defense or goaltending (last two years).

Finding Malkin/Crosby help seems like a good idea.

 

[billybudd]

96 and 01 clubs were forward heavy by design (at the 01 deadline, Patrick tried to trade Kasparaitis for Tkachuk, who we didn't even need).

Between those clubs, the team was NOT built with the idea of being forward-heavy. Patrick was allocating money to 1 or 2 forwards, 1 or 2 D, 1 goaltender, then the rest of the club was comprised of castoffs, waiver claims, role players and reclamation projects.

The "throw crap at the wall" guys who panned out were forwards and not D by happenstance. Lang and Straka are remembered as big-time scorers (rightfully so), but what's forgotten is that both were Chris Bourque/Zach Boychuk style hope-and-a-prayer waiver claims when we got them. That they developed into big money players and a guy like, idk, Ignatjev didn't was more luck than it was part of any plan.

 

[KIRK]

We were beat by a balanced Devils team.

I feel like teams like this and others are part of the reason people have come so forward crazy.

From 1993 to 2001 we had some of the best forward groups in the game and didn't win a single Cup. I feel like we have become very nostalgic about these teams and because of it are making the same mistakes.

What I'm nostalgic for is a time when the Pens built around their best players and then from there, rather than seeking balance to such a degree that they neutralize their best players.

If balance is going to win cups, then trade Sid and Geno. You'll have more balance than you'll know what to do with it.

One other thing . . . that was the pre-cap era. Kind of hard to compare what the teams could put out there given the respective payrolls.

 

[eXile59]

Or... The reason the Pens have been eliminated recently in the playoffs was lack of scoring, not defense or goaltending (last two years).

Finding Malkin/Crosby help seems like a good idea.

I agree but they doesn't mean you ignore defense.

 

[TheSniper26]

What I'm nostalgic for is a time when the Pens built around their best players and then from there, rather than seeking balance to such a degree that they neutralize their best players.

If balance is going to win cups, then trade Sid and Geno. You'll have more balance than you'll know what to do with it.

One other thing . . . that was the pre-cap era. Kind of hard to compare what the teams could put out there given the respective payrolls.

Was just about to post something similar. A truly "balanced" team, one that could call every area of the roster a strength, is next to impossible to pull off in the salary cap world. Aiming for balance usually lands you a pretty nondescript team that lacks identity. A little bit of everything but not enough of anything to be effective(aka the 14-15 Pens).

I think going with a strong top 6 and leveraging our centers is long overdue. Sid/Geno are the only chance the Pens have to compete. They're the gun we bring to the fight. Might as well have it loaded.

 

[plaidchuck]

Honestly can't compare them to the cap era at all really. Like a different universe nowadays.

 

[Konstantin Koltsov]

Straka - Lang - Kovalev is probably my favorite line ever.

 

[clefty]

The 01 squad ran out of steam. Lemieux was gassed, Jagr had a bad shoulder and was arguing with Hlinka, Lang was banged up.

Too bad the Rob Blake trade never happened.

 

[plaidchuck]

LOL just remembered lemieux put up 70 some points in 40 games that year. Unreal.

 

[eXile59]

The 01 squad ran out of steam. Lemieux was gassed, Jagr had a bad shoulder and was arguing with Hlinka, Lang was banged up.

Too bad the Rob Blake trade never happened.

I'm not sure Blake would have even been enough. That defense was bad.

 

[clefty]

I disagree. Lemieux's comeback had players performing above their station like nothing I've ever seen. Andrew Ference was eating up minutes with aplomb. NHL.com called Hans Jonsson a "Poor Man's Lidstrom." Kasparaitis was playing the best hockey of his career.

It was really the offense that sputtered out more than the defense against New Jersey, with their five man neutral zone trap in all its glory. We scored seven goals in five games, zero from Jagr, zero from Mario, one from Lang, one from Kovalev. For such a top heavy team, we weren't beating anyone with only 2 goals from four of our top six.

In the five game series, the Pens shot totals were 15, 23, 20, 21, 20. Just couldn't break down the trap.