20 years ago today

[Masao]

He talked about his stint with the Devils in 2000. They didn't won the cup in 2006, it was Carolina.

Oops

 

[Hackett]

Kirk muller was a favorite of mine, so I was saddened to see him go. But in retrospect, they traded him at a good time, because he was just beginning to decline from an offensive standpoint.

Turgeon was a legitimate star. I was really excited about his acquisition.

Malakhov, when the mood struck him, was one of the better d-men I've seen in a habs uniform.

It should have been a really good deal in the habs favor, but it didn't quite work out the way I thought it would.

 

[googlymoogly]

That trade was horrible, indeed. And after that, the team was just putrid. Too many great players traded away (Roy, Desjardins, Damphousse, Turgeon etc).

And thank god we were not all on internet forums back in the days. Just imagine the thread(s) about the Roy/Tremblay incident. It would have gone to part MMDCCCXLV in no time.

Houle was a terrible GM but he also was being forced by Molson inc to cut payroll. A good reason not to have a corporation running a team, let the billionaires have their plaything, it took Gillette to bring back some decency, still nowhere close to the dynasty years but some of those late 90s early 2000 teams were awful.

 

[googlymoogly]

Kirk muller was a favorite of mine, so I was saddened to see him go. But in retrospect, they traded him at a good time, because he was just beginning to decline from an offensive standpoint.

Turgeon was a legitimate star. I was really excited about his acquisition.

Malakhov, when the mood struck him, was one of the better d-men I've seen in a habs uniform.

It should have been a really good deal in the habs favor, but it didn't quite work out the way I thought it would.

The trade agains was not bad, it's the Recchi trade that was bad. Desjardin and LeClair were a couple of the 93 Cup heroes. Here is a lesson in hockey, don't trade away your number one defensman and a guy that other teams defense could not budge from around the net.

 

[TimGolbert]

My mind immediately thought Kurt Cobain.

Forgot about this trade being on this day.

Kurt Cobain's death was a year earlier, 1994.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

The trade agains was not bad, it's the Recchi trade that was bad. Desjardin and LeClair were a couple of the 93 Cup heroes. Here is a lesson in hockey, don't trade away your number one defensman and a guy that other teams defense could not budge from around the net.

This.

Turgeon was actually a decent point producer so the trade was not all that bad. He did put up something like 96 points in one season and was a bonifide star centre. What really hurt were all the trades that made this team a bottom feeder in the late nineties and early 00s. The start was obviously the trade you mentioned. LeClair and Desjardins had incredible careers in the NHL. LeClair had seven superstar-like seasons after the trade while Eric had nine and was routinely one of the top dmen for the Flyers. We all know about the Roy trade. Years latter Damphousse would leave for a song and Tourgeon and Conroy, who had a good career with the Blues and Flames, would be traded for Murray Barron and Shayne Corson. It is clear that asset management and pro-scouring were a serious black hole at the time.

Dishonorable mentions:

Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Tourgeon (1991)
Chris Chelios for Denis Savard (1991)
Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery (1995)
Tucker, Richer, Wilkie for Ulanov, Poulin, Vukuta (1997)
Recchi for Zubrus (1999)

Add to this awful drafting and you get the Habs of 15 years ago.

 

[deandebean]

Wasn't Pierre Dorion part of the scouting department, same guy that will become GM in Ottawa?

 

[donghabs98]

This.

Turgeon was actually a decent point producer so the trade was not all that bad. He did put up something like 96 points in one season and was a bonifide star centre. What really hurt were all the trades that made this team a bottom feeder in the late nineties and early 00s. The start was obviously the trade you mentioned. LeClair and Desjardins had incredible careers in the NHL. LeClair had seven superstar-like seasons after the trade while Eric had nine and was routinely one of the top dmen for the Flyers. We all know about the Roy trade. Years latter Damphousse would leave for a song and Tourgeon and Conroy, who had a good career with the Blues and Flames, would be traded for Murray Barron and Shayne Corson. It is clear that asset management and pro-scouring were a serious black hole at the time.

Dishonorable mentions:

Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Tourgeon (1991)
Chris Chelios for Denis Savard (1991)
Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery (1995)
Tucker, Richer, Wilkie for Ulanov, Poulin, Vukuta (1997)
Recchi for Zubrus (1999)

Add to this awful drafting and you get the Habs of 15 years ago.

The Chelios trade and Carbo trade if I'm not mistaken were influenced in part by Ronald Corey. The Carbo trade came after he was caught giving the middle finger to a camera guy. Those trades really showed how bad the pro scouting department was in the 90's. If someone made a documentary on the Habs decline of the 90's I couldn't watch it, it would just be too much of a horror show.

 

[Born in 1909]

We traded 3 captains in a little over a year during this time period (Carbonneau, Muller, Keane). You could see that the Canadiens were dismantling themselves and it hurt like hell.

Muller was starting to decline but that trade broke him. He never wanted to leave Montreal and certainly not to go to the gongshow that was the Islanders. He was never the same after that.

Houle.

 

[OnTheRun]

But is there a reason why the Canadiens traded Turgeon for a bag of pucks 3 years later while he was having a good start of a season?

Money was the main reason, same for Damphousse later on.

Molson.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

The Chelios trade and Carbo trade if I'm not mistaken were influenced in part by Ronald Corey. The Carbo trade came after he was caught giving the middle finger to a camera guy. Those trades really showed how bad the pro scouting department was in the 90's. If someone made a documentary on the Habs decline of the 90's I couldn't watch it, it would just be too much of a horror show.

It would be a horror show. Part II would be the draft, especially the first round: Bilodeau, Wilkie, Brown, Ryan, Higgins (Matt), Ward, Chuinard, and Hossa leave a lot to be desired. There were some good players drafted such as Koivu, Rivet, Beuchimin, Riberio, Markov, Robidas, and Ryder, but not enough to offset the dreadful trades that I lived through in the 90s.

 

[Habsfunk]

The first Turgeon trade was a good one. Muller was declining and Turgeon was a legitimate star centre. Malakhov for Schneider was practically a wash (advantage to Schneider because he was more consistent, but Malakhov was definitely more talented.) The second Turgeon trade was terrible. Almost as bad as the Roy trade.

Damphousse and Recchi were traded because of money. Back in the mid-to-late 90s the Habs were owned by the Molson Company (not the family) and the dollar was tanking, so the priority was to cut payroll in order to boost profits. Combine that with the fact the team had an incompetent GM in Houle and terrible drafting and it made for a long decade. They really didn't recover until after the lockout.

 

[Scintillating10]

The Chelios trade and Carbo trade if I'm not mistaken were influenced in part by Ronald Corey. The Carbo trade came after he was caught giving the middle finger to a camera guy. Those trades really showed how bad the pro scouting department was in the 90's. If someone made a documentary on the Habs decline of the 90's I couldn't watch it, it would just be too much of a horror show.

Yes, Ronald Corey ordered them traded because they tarnished the CH. Not only them but Claude Lemieux also I believe.

 

[beowulf]

Which potential? He was a 10th round draft pick and his offensive stats in russia were nothing to write home about. In russia he was a 2nd pairing d man. Malakhov was used correctly once in his career and it was when he won the cup with NJ where he was used behind Stevens, Niedermayer and Rafalski as a 2nd pairing d man with no pressure. It was crystal clear the guy never wanted to be a star.

That's often the problem with russian players. They all have great skills even the defensive ones. It doesn't mean they all have what it takes to be top players and stars. It requires more than just skills. Malakhov had a great shot but he was more effective as a big 2nd pairing defensive d man able to bring around 30 points a season.

So because he was a 10th round pick at a time when it was more normal to see a Russian taken late than early he didn't have potential?

Dude had tons of potential but never really lived up to it for a variety of reasons. I mean let's not forget he had two 50+ point seasons in Long Island and some strong seasons in Montreal best of which was probably 97-98 when he picked up 44 points in the regular season and another 7 points in 9 playoff games.

 

[LaP]

So basically he was used behind the best D duo of that generation and somehow it means that he didn't want to be a star?

I don't know what age you are but if you saw the guys play you know what i mean by he did not want to be a star. He really did not have what it takes to be a leader. He had the skills but not the character. Without too much pressure behind leaders he was okay

 

[Justin11]

I remember being really excited trading for Turgeon. I was not happy Habs included Schneider in the deal (since Desjardins was already traded) but I thought Malakhov was a decent return. The Recchi trade is the one that hurt us, Desjardins and LeClair. I don't think LeClair would have put the same numbers with the Habs the way he did in Philly, but will forever remember the 2 overtime goals in the finals vs the Kings. As for Desjardins, ouch. Still can't believe they traded him.

 

[LaP]

So because he was a 10th round pick at a time when it was more normal to see a Russian taken late than early he didn't have potential?

It was normal yes but 10th round was still kind of late for a young guys like him (usually old russians were picked far in the draft). He was the 9th russian player drafted this year.

Fedorov 4th round
Bure 6th round
Semenov 6th round
Mylnikov 7th round
Starikov 8th round
Bykov (he was 29) 9th round
Gomolyakov 9th round
Khomutov (was 28) 10th round
Malakhov 10th round

Maybe my memory is failing it's been a loooong time but i don't recall Malakhov being really a big story before joining NYI. Guys like Fedorov and Bure were. You could read about them in magazine like Beckett specially Bure. I don't recall reading anything about Malakhov before he started to shine in NY. But like i said my memory might be failing after so many years at 40 you tend to forget things ... also i was young back then and my parents did not buy me the magazines all months

Anyway my point was not to say the guy did not have skills. He was big and had a great shot. Skills wise he had potential. But he lacked the mental strength to go with it and i think too often in Montreal in the 90ies and 2k we failed to acknowledge that and tried to make leaders out of guys who were not (Brisebois, Malakhov, Turgeon, ...).

 

[zzoo]

I remember the trio Damphousse - Turgeon - Recchi. They are the best line in the last two decades. Unfortunately they didn't play much together.

 

[LaP]

Damphousse and Recchi were traded because of money.

Still Zubrus and a 2nd round for Recchi UFA was not great. Recchi was one of the best winger in the league. He was worth Zubrus and a conditional 1st easily even ufa.

Damphousse was bad too. We must not forget the 1st draft pick in this trade was conditional to SJ signing him (thus not making him a rental anymore). It was even worse considering we gave our own 1st (a slightly better pick than SJ) for Linden (a worse player than Damphousse by far). So ultimately the trade was this.

Mtl 1st + Damphousse
vs
SJ 1st (conditional) + Linden

That was really an awful serie of moves.

 

[donghabs98]

The first Turgeon trade was a good one. Muller was declining and Turgeon was a legitimate star centre. Malakhov for Schneider was practically a wash (advantage to Schneider because he was more consistent, but Malakhov was definitely more talented.) The second Turgeon trade was terrible. Almost as bad as the Roy trade.

Damphousse and Recchi were traded because of money. Back in the mid-to-late 90s the Habs were owned by the Molson Company (not the family) and the dollar was tanking, so the priority was to cut payroll in order to boost profits. Combine that with the fact the team had an incompetent GM in Houle and terrible drafting and it made for a long decade. They really didn't recover until after the lockout.

I'm not fully sure about this but when Molson thought the team back in 1978 Pollock left. The difference between a individual owning a team compared to a company was highlighted with the way things unfolded in the late 90's. The dollar was tanking and stockholders weren't happy with the huge losses that the Canadiens were reporting. Ultimately the fans paid the price with slashed budgets and stockholders paid the price with fans just not showing up which contributed to more losses.

It would be a horror show. Part II would be the draft, especially the first round: Bilodeau, Wilkie, Brown, Ryan, Higgins (Matt), Ward, Chuinard, and Hossa leave a lot to be desired. There were some good players drafted such as Koivu, Rivet, Beuchimin, Riberio, Markov, Robidas, and Ryder, but not enough to offset the dreadful trades that I lived through in the 90s.

I remember reading in Terry Ryan's book where he mentioned one of the Habs top scouts thought he was Shane Doan. That right there perfectly depicts the state of the Habs in the 90's.


The turning point started here at least.

 

[Scintillating10]

The first Turgeon trade was a good one. Muller was declining and Turgeon was a legitimate star centre. Malakhov for Schneider was practically a wash (advantage to Schneider because he was more consistent, but Malakhov was definitely more talented.) The second Turgeon trade was terrible. Almost as bad as the Roy trade.

Damphousse and Recchi were traded because of money. Back in the mid-to-late 90s the Habs were owned by the Molson Company (not the family) and the dollar was tanking, so the priority was to cut payroll in order to boost profits. Combine that with the fact the team had an incompetent GM in Houle and terrible drafting and it made for a long decade. They really didn't recover until after the lockout.

Recchi was a 120 point guy in Philly, came here and he dropped to 80 point guy. LeClair went other way. Must have been because of Lindros. Warning never to trade for player who is playing with star

 

[LaP]

Recchi was a star himself. He was good before and after Lindros.

He still had good seasons here. I don't think the beginning of the end was this trade. Recchi was still a valuable asset.

The beginning of the end was really when Houle was named as a DG. He traded good players for next to nothing.

He traded recchi UFA for a guy who was considered by Flyers fans as a bust and a 2nd round. He traded Damphousse UFA for a conditional 1st round. The condition was that SJ signed Damphousse which made him not a rental anymore. He traded a 1st round for an aging Linden. He traded Turgeon for scraps. He gave Conroy free a good young defensive center a la Hudon. He traded Roy for guys who were nothing to write home about (in the LeClair trade at least Recchi was a good player). Not sure if it's him who gave Tucker and Richer for scraps but it was a bad trade too (Tucker was a Gallagher). Anyway he did so much bad trade the Leclair trade did not matter anymore.

 

[Masao]

One thing that's very interesting,

In 1996, the Canadiens faced the Rangers in the playoffs. Both teams were recent cup champions.

The Rangers roster in 1996 was basically the same team that won the Cup in 1994.

But the the Canadiens in the 1996 playoffs had only FOUR players who were in the 1993 Cup: Damphousse, Brisebois, Brunet and Odelein (not counting Oleg Petrov). The entire team was gutted.