Whatever Man*
Guest
Well I'm glad you all think you are so smart.
You just go right on believing that that advances in training are meaningless.
You just go right on believing that that advances in training are meaningless.
Well I'm glad you all think you are so smart.
You just go right on believing that that advances in training are meaningless.
Nobody thinks they are meaningless.
Your average middle of the road old timer would probably struggle in the NHL now.
We are talking about the greatest players of all-time though and you are discarding them as just regular.
Good God, people. I've seen this argument about a thousand times, and it's always the same ****. The problem is that you people don't realize that you're arguing different points. That's why you're all so frustrated.
So for the last time:
A player brought from the 60's into todays game would most certainly not be as effective because of all the things listed above. Training, nutrition, apparently "evolution" , etc.
HOWEVER,
If Bobby Orr was head and shoulders above everyone in his era, it would be safe to assume that he would be head and shoulders above the current NHL had he been born in 1980.
Just because players are more advanced now, does not mean that they're better. My cousin can play All Along The Watchtower perfectly, and he does it through a newer amp and with better drugs. But he's no Jimi Hendrix.
You dig?
Why did you have to wait this long to be reasonable?
I never said they would be regular. Someone said Orr or Hull I forget which, would be in the AHL but it wasn't me.
I will try, again to explain this.
But how?
Let's start with your comment "middle of the road old timer would probably struggle in the NHL now", because that is basically on the same line as I have been for this entire fruitless....I don't want to call it a debate....discussion.
From that comment, is it safe to say you believe that the "middle of the road players" are better today than in era's past?
I will wait for your response.
Well I'm glad you all think you are so smart.
You just go right on believing that that advances in training are meaningless.
Think of what truly makes a great hockey player and then think what weight training does for you and you should see that they don't go together.
Are you sure?
If you are, you had better apply for a job as an NHL trainer because you know more about weight lifting and hockey training than they do. You could be missing out on some big bucks here.
Are you sure you want to argue that working out is what got great hockey players where they are today?
If the weight training is as important as you seem to be making it out to be, how come Rod Brind'Amour isn't far and away the best player in the league?
Yes, but the problem I have is you saying that gretzky, or Orr, or Lemieux, or Howe, or Richard would have trouble in the NHL today. These are not middle of the road players...
If a player was taken from his time, and placed into a league where 3/4 of the people he had to face where stronger, faster, and had better systems and positioning training than where and when he came from, Would you expect him to be as dominant as he was against weaker, slower, less informed opponents?
Not Trouble as in struggling to make a team, but definitely not as dominant.
I'm not saying Gretzky and Lemieux are only going to score 90pts a piece.
More like their 2.5 PPG from thier primes may dip to somewhere around 2.2-2.0.
How can you say laugh at people that say gretzky will still dominate, throw up a or three, and then say Gretzky will get 2.2 points a game? That is domination. That would win him the scoring title by 40% over Thornton.
Gretzky scored 2.5 points a game on a team that had 400 goals a season. Even throwing him on Ottawa, I'm not sure they'd get all that close to that.
Yes I would. Why wouldn't that player take advantage and use those advantages also?
Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule
What he is doing is backtracking and agreeing with the consensus that the great players would be great in any era. Thanks for coming on board.
Posted by BM76
How can you say laugh at people that say gretzky will still dominate, throw up a or three, and then say Gretzky will get 2.2 points a game? That is domination. That would win him the scoring title by 40% over Thornton.
Gretzky scored 2.5 points a game on a team that had 400 goals a season. Even throwing him on Ottawa, I'm not sure they'd get all that close to that.
LMAO where'd you get that? It's not what I said. You are lost ES.
You still want to stand behind the notion that Great Hockey players and Weight lifting don't go together?
That is rich.
That's what you said about Martin St. Louis.
And yes I will stand behind that notion because i'm proven right by simply watching the game. Like I said before the best players are the most skilled, smart and mature players which does not come from weight lifting. All players in the NHL are fit and in shape, but not all of them are great and the top tier players are not stronger and more fit than others. Therefore weight lifting does not go togther with what makes a great hockey player.
And yet Forsberg works out 2 hrs a day. Go figure????Therefore weight lifting does not go togther with what makes a great hockey player
Weight training most definitely took St. Louis from a good skilled player to a very good player, but I would never consider him great by any stretch of the imagination.
IF St. Louis was already smart and fast and skilled, the only assests you think a player seems to need to have success, why didn't he begin to excell before his 4th full season at the age of 27?
So are you saying that Martin St. Louis is in the same calibre of player as Howe, Hull, Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux?
Because it sounds like it.
And yet Forsberg works out 2 hrs a day. Go figure????
St. Louis is one of the better players in the league today. I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that I think St. Louis is in the same calibre as Orr, Gretz etc. It just goes to show how you don't listen at all, especially sinse i've allready explained to you how St. Louis became what he is today about 3 times in another thread. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=277084
Forsberg works out 2 hours a day? ok...what does that mean!? Every player in the NHL works out but they are not all all-stars with the skill of Forsberg... go figure eh? It sounds like you think Forsberg gets all his skill from working out, I dont know what els that comment could possibly mean.
Well if your posts made more sense, perhaps these misunderstandings wouldn't occur.
So you just think St Louis would have still won the Art Ross had he never touched a weight in his life?
What is it?
What do you think?
It would seem Mr. Forsberg, a man who should know, puts more value on training than you do. I'll go with him on this one, thanks.
If working out is so useless then why did you just say every player does it?
Doesn't really make sense for all these professional atheltes to be wasting their time working out, when they could actually be doing something to improve their game.
I think you need to re-read some previous posts.
Again like I said before, I think it's important that athelets keep their body in shape so it can work at it's best, but it's not what give players what matters in most in most professional sports and especially hockey which is talent, intelligence, drive, insticts, maturity etc. these things obviously do not come from lifting weights. That's why their is dicrepancy between players in the NHL or any sports, they are all fit and in shape but some posses more talent than others, which allows them to play better than the rest.
If you asked Forsberg why he is such a succesfull NHL player do you actually think he would say it's because he does alot of weight training? If you asked Martin St.Louis, Brian Gionta, Eric Staal and their coaches and teamates why they became succesfull players would they say "it's because over the years their muscles became progressivly stronger? Well, i'll answer that for you... No they wouldn't. If you watched stars like Forsberg you'd know that they are special players because his intelligence and offensive insitcts are hard to find something that cannot be taught or developed by getting stronger muscles.