1980s Minnesota North Stars: What went wrong?

reckoning

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Jan 4, 2005
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After finishing dead last in 77-78, Lou Nanne began the task of rebuilding the Minnesota North Stars. Helped initially by the merger with Cleveland, combined with some shrewd draft selections, the results were impressive; A jump from 45 to 68 points in 78-79, then to 88 points in 79-80 (along with the huge upset over Montreal in the playoffs). Then in 80-81 they made it to the Stanley Cup Final. They were easily beaten by the Islanders in that final, but the future looked very bright.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/MNS/1981.html

Don Beaupre (age 19)
Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)
Tom McCarthy (age 20)
Neal Broten (age 21)
Craig Hartsburg (age 21)
Curt Giles (age 22)
Steve Payne (age 22)
Bobby Smith (age 22)
Brad Maxwell (age 23)
Gordie Roberts (age 23)

I can't think of another Stanley Cup finalist that had a core of good players that were this young. And Brian Bellows would be drafted the following year. With their youth, along with the playoff experience of the past two seasons, it looked like they would become one of the dominant teams of the 80s.

Instead, things didn't quite work out. Despite being placed in the league's weakest division, they only made it past the second round once in the rest of the decade; and by 87-88 they were exactly where they were 10 years earlier: dead last overall.

What went wrong with this team?
 

Jinsell

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May 11, 2007
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After finishing dead last in 77-78, Lou Nanne began the task of rebuilding the Minnesota North Stars. Helped initially by the merger with Cleveland, combined with some shrewd draft selections, the results were impressive; A jump from 45 to 68 points in 78-79, then to 88 points in 79-80 (along with the huge upset over Montreal in the playoffs). Then in 80-81 they made it to the Stanley Cup Final. They were easily beaten by the Islanders in that final, but the future looked very bright.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/MNS/1981.html

Don Beaupre (age 19)
Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)
Tom McCarthy (age 20)
Neal Broten (age 21)
Craig Hartsburg (age 21)
Curt Giles (age 22)
Steve Payne (age 22)
Bobby Smith (age 22)
Brad Maxwell (age 23)
Gordie Roberts (age 23)

I can't think of another Stanley Cup finalist that had a core of good players that were this young. And Brian Bellows would be drafted the following year. With their youth, along with the playoff experience of the past two seasons, it looked like they would become one of the dominant teams of the 80s.

Instead, things didn't quite work out. Despite being placed in the league's weakest division, they only made it past the second round once in the rest of the decade; and by 87-88 they were exactly where they were 10 years earlier: dead last overall.

What went wrong with this team?

As someone who has spent the last few years reading, researching, and writing about the Minnesota North Stars from this era I feel I might be able to provide some insight into this.

Indeed, the North Stars were beginning to look like quite the contender by the early 1980s with their core of young players and a deep postseason run in 1981. However, as the 80s gradually wore on Minnesota seemingly got lost in the shuffle of young talented teams, taking a back seat to the likes of the Edmonton Oilers (who made short work of them in the 1984 Campbell Conference Finals) and Calgary Flames.

I think part of the problem with the North Stars was based on what Pierre Page said about the team upon taking over as coach when they hit rock bottom in 1988. He claimed that Minnesota had become "mesmerized by talent." In other words the North Stars were a very skilled and talented group of young players, but they seemingly lacked the veteran leadership, work ethic, and heart to play disciplined, defensive hockey for any sustained period of time. Keep in mind that while the Norris Division was weak, it was also one of the toughest divisions back then. A skilled, talented team with questionable heart, work ethic, and even toughness in a division like that would not be too successful and I think that's why the Stars were not as successful as expected.

Now onto the players you mentioned.

Don Beaupre (age 19) - Had an excellent rookie year, but every year after that with the North Stars paled in comparison. He struggled to maintain consistency for much of his tenure with Minnesota and found himself sharing playing time with the backups like Gilles Meloche and Kari Takko. Beaupre was dealt to Washington for Claudio Scremin (who?) in November 1988. He would resurrect his career with the Capitals but before that Beaupre was, in many ways, a one-season wonder.

Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)- His career with the North Stars started off with a bang and he was one of the team's most prolific goal scorers during those early heady years. However, Ciccarelli's off-ice antics began to overshadow his on-ice performance. Eventually, it had an effect on the team. Many people questioned his leadership too and felt that his behaviour set a bad example for what was a young and impressionable North Stars roster (the same accusations were thrown at Brian Bellows later on). Page didn't see eye-to-eye with him and in March 1989 he was traded to Washington for Mike Gartner whom the coach felt was a better leader.

Tom McCarthy (age 20) - Had an extremely promising career in his early days, but was stricken with Bells Palsy 25 games into the 1985-86 season. This effectively ended his NHL career at the age of 26.

Neal Broten (age 21) - Broten was arguably one of the best-playmakers in the game at the time. After being the first American player to score over 100 points, however, his career went off the rails with a series of injuries that wreaked havoc on him for the next two years. It's no surprise his decline mirrored that of the North Stars. Nevertheless, he was able to get his NHL carrer back on track in the late-1980s/early-1990s. Being a little older and wiser probably helped him in the leadership department too.

Craig Hartsburg (age 21) - Another player whose career was destroyed by injuries and ended too soon. Hartsburg was fast becoming one of the NHL's best blueliners when a laundry list of injuries derailed his career. By 1988 he was a shell of his former self and he retired in January 1989.

Curt Giles (age 22) - Underrated as ever. Giles was one of the North Stars' best leaders through thick and thin. Still, he was not at the elite level of the other players you had listed here. Size was also an issue. He was good and excelled beyond expectations, but he was not great.

Steve Payne (age 22) - Like McCarthy, his career ended way too early. Multiple cervical spine injuries.

Bobby Smith (age 22) - Any North Stars fan will tell you the beginning of the team's fall from potential greatness started with Bobby Smith's trade to Montreal in 1983. It is widely considered one of the worst trades in the franchise's history and it left a hole at center that was not filled until Mike Modano came along. Those post-Bobby Smith North Stars teams always lacked size down the middle. Thankfully, the team righted a wrong and brought him back in 1990. Mind you, he was past his prime at this point, but he was still invaluable to their '91 Cup Run.

Brad Maxwell (age 23) - Had a promising early NHL career, which peaked in 1983-84 before inexplicably declining fast. Bounced around a lot in his latter days before retiring in 1987.

Gordie Roberts (age 23) - One of the guys that a rebuilding Minnesota team traded away prematurely. Roberts was one of the few who went on to have a long and successful career.
 

Jinsell

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May 11, 2007
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To sum up my long post I think it was a simple case of a team being quite talented yet lacking the leadership, discipline, maturity, work ethic, and other intangibles that would put teams like the Edmonton Oilers over them.

Keep in mind their core players like Broten, Ciccarelli, and Bellows were VERY young and expected to be the team leaders. Sometimes that's asking A LOT of players. Furthermore, a series of injuries to players like Tom McCarthy, Steve Payne, and Craig Hartsburg wiped out their depth and the guys they had replace them were nowhere near as good.

It's a combination of factors, but the simple fact of the matter is they underachieved. You could argue they also underachieved when they were rebuilding from 1988-1993. That North Stars' roster was way better than it actually performed and we only saw flashes of brilliance (1991 for example).
 

reckoning

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Jan 4, 2005
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As someone who has spent the last few years reading, researching, and writing about the Minnesota North Stars from this era I feel I might be able to provide some insight into this.

Indeed, the North Stars were beginning to look like quite the contender by the early 1980s with their core of young players and a deep postseason run in 1981. However, as the 80s gradually wore on Minnesota seemingly got lost in the shuffle of young talented teams, taking a back seat to the likes of the Edmonton Oilers (who made short work of them in the 1984 Campbell Conference Finals) and Calgary Flames.

I think part of the problem with the North Stars was based on what Pierre Page said about the team upon taking over as coach when they hit rock bottom in 1988. He claimed that Minnesota had become "mesmerized by talent." In other words the North Stars were a very skilled and talented group of young players, but they seemingly lacked the veteran leadership, work ethic, and heart to play disciplined, defensive hockey for any sustained period of time. Keep in mind that while the Norris Division was weak, it was also one of the toughest divisions back then. A skilled, talented team with questionable heart, work ethic, and even toughness in a division like that would not be too successful and I think that's why the Stars were not as successful as expected.

Now onto the players you mentioned.

Don Beaupre (age 19) - Had an excellent rookie year, but every year after that with the North Stars paled in comparison. He struggled to maintain consistency for much of his tenure with Minnesota and found himself sharing playing time with the backups like Gilles Meloche and Kari Takko. Beaupre was dealt to Washington for Claudio Scremin (who?) in November 1988. He would resurrect his career with the Capitals but before that Beaupre was, in many ways, a one-season wonder.

Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)- His career with the North Stars started off with a bang and he was one of the team's most prolific goal scorers during those early heady years. However, Ciccarelli's off-ice antics began to overshadow his on-ice performance. Eventually, it had an effect on the team. Many people questioned his leadership too and felt that his behaviour set a bad example for what was a young and impressionable North Stars roster (the same accusations were thrown at Brian Bellows later on). Page didn't see eye-to-eye with him and in March 1989 he was traded to Washington for Mike Gartner whom the coach felt was a better leader.

Tom McCarthy (age 20) - Had an extremely promising career in his early days, but was stricken with Bells Palsy 25 games into the 1985-86 season. This effectively ended his NHL career at the age of 26.

Neal Broten (age 21) - Broten was arguably one of the best-playmakers in the game at the time. After being the first American player to score over 100 points, however, his career went off the rails with a series of injuries that wreaked havoc on him for the next two years. It's no surprise his decline mirrored that of the North Stars. Nevertheless, he was able to get his NHL carrer back on track in the late-1980s/early-1990s. Being a little older and wiser probably helped him in the leadership department too.

Craig Hartsburg (age 21) - Another player whose career was destroyed by injuries and ended too soon. Hartsburg was fast becoming one of the NHL's best blueliners when a laundry list of injuries derailed his career. By 1988 he was a shell of his former self and he retired in January 1989.

Curt Giles (age 22) - Underrated as ever. Giles was one of the North Stars' best leaders through thick and thin. Still, he was not at the elite level of the other players you had listed here. Size was also an issue. He was good and excelled beyond expectations, but he was not great.

Steve Payne (age 22) - Like McCarthy, his career ended way too early. Multiple cervical spine injuries.

Bobby Smith (age 22) - Any North Stars fan will tell you the beginning of the team's fall from potential greatness started with Bobby Smith's trade to Montreal in 1983. It is widely considered one of the worst trades in the franchise's history and it left a hole at center that was not filled until Mike Modano came along. Those post-Bobby Smith North Stars teams always lacked size down the middle. Thankfully, the team righted a wrong and brought him back in 1990. Mind you, he was past his prime at this point, but he was still invaluable to their '91 Cup Run.

Brad Maxwell (age 23) - Had a promising early NHL career, which peaked in 1983-84 before inexplicably declining fast. Bounced around a lot in his latter days before retiring in 1987.

Gordie Roberts (age 23) - One of the guys that a rebuilding Minnesota team traded away prematurely. Roberts was one of the few who went on to have a long and successful career.
Thanks for the response. Very detailed and insightful stuff!

It's always been a team that's interested me. Growing up in Ottawa in the early 80s when there was no NHL team here, a lot of fans here had adopted a fondness for the North Stars due to the prominent ex-Ottawa 67s who were drafted there (Smith, Payne, Young). I always thought Bobby Smith never got enough credit for Montreal's resurgence in the mid-to-late 80s.

It certainly seemed like Nanne was emulating the Sam Pollock model of acquiring draft picks from weak teams. It's too bad that Brian Lawton didn't pan out.
 

BubbaBoot

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Oct 19, 2003
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As a Bruins fan I remember some wars we used to have against the North Stars in those years. I vaguely recalled that injuries had taken their toll on some players but put into a cumulative perspective I can see how that, combined with the trading of Bobby Smith, (because of a down year?), did a number on them.
 

popo

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Aug 9, 2005
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How did Boston and Minnesota end up with the first two picks in the '82 draft? Minnesota used the 2nd overall to get Bellows. But that '81-82 season they had a strong season winning the Norris with 94 points.
Looks like Colorado and Detroit traded the 1st and 2nd overall picks, respectively.
 

saskganesh

Registered User
Jun 19, 2006
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I think trading Smith for Napier and Acton was the kicker. Napier and Acton were fine players, but Smith was the big, young leader at center.While the Stars improved their depth, they lost chemistry, something which is hard to quantify.

EDIT: great post Jinsell! Thanks!
 

saskganesh

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Jun 19, 2006
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the Annex
I just remembered I saw Neil Broten's first NHL goal. We were on vacation in the Twin Cities and my dad (who, as a Welshman, was indifferent to hockey) took me to the game.
 

Smelling Salt

Busey is life
Mar 8, 2006
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As someone who has spent the last few years reading, researching, and writing about the Minnesota North Stars from this era I feel I might be able to provide some insight into this.

...

Nice write up.

As a NS/Dallas fan I love hearing about the guys from 80s. Used to be a big fan of Curt Giles. Brad Maxwell is definitely an interesting case. 19 goals, 54 assists with 225 PIM is a beastly season for a defenseman. 61 points in 79 career playoff games too which is actually 12th all time for Playoff PPG amongst defencemen.
 

bruins309

Krejci Fight Club
Sep 17, 2007
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How did Boston and Minnesota end up with the first two picks in the '82 draft? Minnesota used the 2nd overall to get Bellows. But that '81-82 season they had a strong season winning the Norris with 94 points.
Looks like Colorado and Detroit traded the 1st and 2nd overall picks, respectively.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/1982.htm

This website is AMAZING when it comes to tracking draft picks trades through the years.

For the #1 pick, which went from Colorado/New Jersey to Boston:

Traded to restricted free agent Dwight Foster, Bruins option to swap 1982 first round picks (#18-Ken Daneyko), 1982 tenth round pick (#207-Tony Gilliard) to Rockies (who later became Devils) for Bruins option to swap 1982 first round picks (#1-Gord Kluzak), 1982 second round pick (#22-Brian Curran) on 1981-07-21

Kinda funny how the Devils draft pick had a longer career than the guy with the first overall pick.

2nd overall pick

Traded Greg Smith, rights to Don Murdoch, 1982 first round pick (#17-Murray Craven) to Red Wings for 1982 first round pick (#2-Brian Bellows) on 1981-08-21

Now as I recall, the Bruins got two players from Minnesota in exchange for not picking Bellows. The two guys were Brad Palmer and Dave Donnelly. Palmer was a 1st round pick in 1980 but never really did anything of note after that.
 

double5son10

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Coach Glen Sonmor's battle with alcohol was also a factor. Having a HC getting in bar fights isn't great for the leadership department, and that teams chemistry really turned sour. Those young talents didn't develop together as cohesively as they should've. A shame, 'cause Sonmor was actually a pretty good coach.
 

Rob Scuderi

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Sep 3, 2009
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Here's an article from December 1984 by Eric Duhatschek talking about the North Star's struggles.

The Calgary Herald - DEC 1 said:
"I was lucky," Willi Plett was saying. "I never had to play under (Bill) Mahoney."

Plett's bit of luck, or excuse if you prefer, was the dislocated shoulder he suffered in an exhibition game fight. The injury sidelined Plett for Minnesota North Stars' first 15 gamse which was long enough for the players to get Mahoney, their unpopular coach, fired.

The North Stars players did not exactly keep their feelings for Mahoney under wraps. Only now, however, has the real depth of their dislike reached the surface.

"It was hell," said Plett Friday, on the eve of tonight's National Hockey League game against Calgary Flames. "His whole philosophy was just a lot of x's and o's."

"Too many systems?" Plett was asked.

"Yeah, systems, too many of those. Bill put pressure on you even in practice. With Glen (Sonmor), we seem to be having more fun than before. He wants us to just go out and work hard. With the players we have, there's just so much talent, you shouldn't be putting any restrictions on them.

"Of course, you can't blame it all on the coach. We didn't work as hard as we could have."


The Minnesota players' coup was reminiscient of what happened in Calgary in the summer of 1982 when general manager Cliff Fletcher finally acquiesed to player grumblings and replaced Al MacNeil with Bob Johnson.

Fletcher did not stop there, however. He traded away all the complainers over the next 12 months and slowly replaced them with today's hard-working players. The North Stars, meanwhile, picked up everbody else's problem players and today, they resemble the 1981-82 Flames. The talent is there. The motivation is sometimes difficult to find.

Under Sonmor, the North Stars are a respectable 5-2-. It is not a spectacular streak, but in the bad Norris Division, it is enough to move the North Stars out of danger and into contention.

In discussing what he's doing differently, Sonmor pinpointed a number of problem areas on the team: Not enough hitting, not enough game-day preparation and too much complaining about a lack of ice time.

"I have an open door to my office for players who want to talk about anything," said Sonmor, "but I don't want to hear about a lack of ice time. I say: Show me what you deserve and you'll get it. It's the same old story. The player says I'll play better if I play more. I say play better and you will play more."

...IN BRIEF: When Sonmor took over, he called goaltender Gilles Meloche his "personal project." In the past two weeks, Meloche has played excellent goal for the North Stars...To improve the team's concentration, Sonmor has banned rock music in the dressing room prior to games...
 

tjcurrie

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Jinsell pretty much summed it up. Good job my man.

As a long time Stars fan, though very young and more worried about gathering a game of G.I. Joe or He-Man at the time, I would like to add my two cents. Though I'm basically just echoing a few points already said.

They did a great job of building up talent, but it wasn't a match for the Islanders or Oilers. If not for those two dynasties the North Stars quite possibly have at least one Cup in those years.

Nanne did not want to trade Bobby Smith but was forced to. Acton and Napier were good and the North Stars were still a darn good team, but that depleted a good talented core that likely would have had longer success had they remained together. Craig Hartsburg and Steve Payne not remaining healthy definitely didn't help. And yeah they werent that good at keeping the goals out.
 

Neuuman

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May 6, 2012
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Here's an article from December 1984 by Eric Duhatschek talking about the North Star's struggles.

Let's not put too much stock into Willi Plett's assessment of ANY hockey team. Granted, he was an invaluable player in the late 70's with Atlanta (in the "SLAPSHOT" era), but as the game evolved in the 80's (Gretzky, Coffey, Messier, etc.) he was nothing but a goon filling a uniform/role for his team. Don't get me wrong, that's a very tough role to fill, but to put any stock in to what a player in that role knows about winning Stanley Cups is a little out there. IMHO
 

Scintillating10

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Jun 15, 2012
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After finishing dead last in 77-78, Lou Nanne began the task of rebuilding the Minnesota North Stars. Helped initially by the merger with Cleveland, combined with some shrewd draft selections, the results were impressive; A jump from 45 to 68 points in 78-79, then to 88 points in 79-80 (along with the huge upset over Montreal in the playoffs). Then in 80-81 they made it to the Stanley Cup Final. They were easily beaten by the Islanders in that final, but the future looked very bright.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/MNS/1981.html

Don Beaupre (age 19)
Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)
Tom McCarthy (age 20)
Neal Broten (age 21)
Craig Hartsburg (age 21)
Curt Giles (age 22)
Steve Payne (age 22)
Bobby Smith (age 22)
Brad Maxwell (age 23)
Gordie Roberts (age 23)

I can't think of another Stanley Cup finalist that had a core of good players that were this young. And Brian Bellows would be drafted the following year. With their youth, along with the playoff experience of the past two seasons, it looked like they would become one of the dominant teams of the 80s.

Instead, things didn't quite work out. Despite being placed in the league's weakest division, they only made it past the second round once in the rest of the decade; and by 87-88 they were exactly where they were 10 years earlier: dead last overall.

What went wrong with this team?

They had awesome stars but not a good team. I remember hating to play against Gary Sargent. Tim young use to kill us playing the point on the powerplay. Curt Giles was an SOB to play against in the playoffs. Gilles Meloche was a good goalie. The North Star of 1980 and 1981 reminded me of Islanders of 1978 and 1979..they were that skilled. If they would have drafted well, I mean Meighan and Bellows? Had 6 picks in top 40 of '81 draft never got a player. Passed on some future Hall of Famers? Don't make the Bobby Smith trade...it should have been a dynasty.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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I had a thread about this a year or two ago, but I can't find it now... Anyway, the thread was more about how that early-80s' core declined and never really fully achieved.

It seems the (frankly terrible) Bobby Smith trade, coupled with coach's alcohol problems, were two huge factors.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Tokyo, Japan
Don Beaupre (age 19)
Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)
Tom McCarthy (age 20)
Neal Broten (age 21)
Craig Hartsburg (age 21)
Curt Giles (age 22)
Steve Payne (age 22)
Bobby Smith (age 22)
Brad Maxwell (age 23)
Gordie Roberts (age 23)

I can't think of another Stanley Cup finalist that had a core of good players that were this young.
Well, Edmonton in '83 is similar:
Huddy (age 23)
Lowe (age 23)
Gretzky (age 22)
Kurri (age 22)
Messier (age 22)
Anderson (age 22)
Moog (age 22)
Coffey (age 21)
Fuhr (age 20)
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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can someone explain the meighan (minny’s 1981 first rounder) and 1983 first rounder (pittsburgh took bob errey) for the lawton pick trade? was that just clearing the deck to make sure they didn’t win any games in 1983-84 leading up to the mario draft?
 

Bluesguru

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Aug 10, 2014
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After finishing dead last in 77-78, Lou Nanne began the task of rebuilding the Minnesota North Stars. Helped initially by the merger with Cleveland, combined with some shrewd draft selections, the results were impressive; A jump from 45 to 68 points in 78-79, then to 88 points in 79-80 (along with the huge upset over Montreal in the playoffs). Then in 80-81 they made it to the Stanley Cup Final. They were easily beaten by the Islanders in that final, but the future looked very bright.

1980-81 Minnesota North Stars Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Don Beaupre (age 19)
Dino Ciccarelli (age 20)
Tom McCarthy (age 20)
Neal Broten (age 21)
Craig Hartsburg (age 21)
Curt Giles (age 22)
Steve Payne (age 22)
Bobby Smith (age 22)
Brad Maxwell (age 23)
Gordie Roberts (age 23)

I can't think of another Stanley Cup finalist that had a core of good players that were this young. And Brian Bellows would be drafted the following year. With their youth, along with the playoff experience of the past two seasons, it looked like they would become one of the dominant teams of the 80s.

Instead, things didn't quite work out. Despite being placed in the league's weakest division, they only made it past the second round once in the rest of the decade; and by 87-88 they were exactly where they were 10 years earlier: dead last overall.

What went wrong with this team?

They really couldn't beat the Hawks come playoff time. And I always felt Neal Broten was a moody so and so. If he had Doug Gilmour's desire he would of been a fantastic player. An underachiever IMO, no doubt.
 

Talisman

Registered User
Nov 7, 2015
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I think in 85-86 they had good team!!. Neal broten and Kent nilsson as centers and bellows/Ciccarelli and Maruk on wings!. Any glue how the lines were build in that season?.
 

a79krgm

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Jul 15, 2006
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If you want to mark what went really wrong the North Stars, you need to go back further than the 80's. Problems developed early in the franchise and just compounded. The franchise could never really take off in full flight. Some really good talent in the early days was traded away for little or no return. (e.g. Parise, Drouin, Grant, Hextall). Coaching and management instabilities also contributed. They never developed a backbone like the Flyers, Blues or Islanders did. In fact Dennis Potvin in a recent interview with Tom Reid credited former North Stars who came to Long Island in the early days (Parise and Drouin) for setting the sails right for this team's future success.
 

Thenameless

Registered User
Apr 29, 2014
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Nanne did not want to trade Bobby Smith but was forced to. Acton and Napier were good and the North Stars were still a darn good team, but that depleted a good talented core that likely would have had longer success had they remained together.

Can you please explain why? Was it ownership? Did Bobby Smith demand it?
 

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