Prospect Info: #197 Mattias Elfstrom LW/C

[sarcastro]

Obviously Hank and Pavel were lucky picks to a degree. If the Wings had any idea they'd even become NHL role players they would have drafted them four rounds earlier.

What we don't know is, was Hakan just basically throwing darts and got completely lucky, or what? Because we've seen him rave about some of the European picks in the years since then and most of them have turned out to be awful.

I think a lot of it has to do with the level of scouting getting caught up with Hakan the last ten years or so. He wasn't particularly great in the 90s, he was just the only guy in the market that was at his level. Now every team has a Hakan and they're all pretty much the same. So the Hanks and Pavels are getting grabbed early and Hakan is volume buying the leftovers. Edler is a good example. Hakan wanted him, and the Nucks knew it and knew about him as well, so they jumped ahead and stole him.

What can Hakan do that these other guys can't? Lately, the answer has been nothing.

 

[ChadS]

When Håkan says no one knows about Elfström, he must mean no one sees the potential and thinks he's worth drafting. The SuperElit is certainly quite heavily scouted and many scouts have seen him play this past season. Someone playing U18 hockey (like Hampus Melén in 2013) could be more hidden but the SuperElit is probably the top junior league in Europe.

I would personally like them to look more into the Russian junior league MHL in the coming years with late round picks. Denmark seems to also have a good amount of talented kids coming up and outside of the national team they probably aren't scouted a lot.

Regarding Håkan's recent picks outside of the ones already menioned, I would say Holmström is doing pretty damn well for where he was drafted. Bäckman could also still turn into an NHLer. We never found out what Bodin and Melén were all about, due to injuries.

 

[sarcastro]

Regarding Håkan's recent picks outside of the ones already menioned, I would say Holmström is doing pretty damn well for where he was drafted. Bäckman could also still turn into an NHLer.

Those guys might be roster players but they aren't stars. Wings can find roster fill in North America. What won them four Cups is the ability to find stars in Europe.

 

[Henkka]

We probably aren't having anymore any kind of edge with Andersson picks, but there's some more important happening in our drafting. When Jim Nill was thankfully gone with McDonnell and Tyler Wright did came in, our NA drafting and developing has been from another planet. Almost like it was at Holland's scouting director era from 1988 to 1994.

We have gained more than lost in the big picture.

Great talents will probably go earlier now almost forever, but he could still draft us some depth and trade baits from later rounds. That's still very valuable work.

Don't think Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's will ever happen again, but "ericssons and nyquists" could.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Obviously Hank and Pavel were lucky picks to a degree. If the Wings had any idea they'd even become NHL role players they would have drafted them four rounds earlier.

What we don't know is, was Hakan just basically throwing darts and got completely lucky, or what? Because we've seen him rave about some of the European picks in the years since then and most of them have turned out to be awful.

I think a lot of it has to do with the level of scouting getting caught up with Hakan the last ten years or so. He wasn't particularly great in the 90s, he was just the only guy in the market that was at his level. Now every team has a Hakan and they're all pretty much the same. So the Hanks and Pavels are getting grabbed early and Hakan is volume buying the leftovers. Edler is a good example. Hakan wanted him, and the Nucks knew it and knew about him as well, so they jumped ahead and stole him.

What can Hakan do that these other guys can't? Lately, the answer has been nothing.

He's still picked some solid players. Gotta take into account the picks he's usually working with. Not like he's given the 1st round picks to decide over. He's still taken many solid players, and for the most part even those that haven't turned out as good as hoped have still had legit potential instead of just being straight up awful picks.

In the 7th round you're picking longshots. I trust Andersson more than most to actually be able to find some hidden talent there. Not necessarily Z/Dats, but potential NHLers.

 

[sarcastro]

He's still picked some solid players. Gotta take into account the picks he's usually working with. Not like he's given the 1st round picks to decide over. He's still taken many solid players, and for the most part even those that haven't turned out as good as hoped have still had legit potential instead of just being straight up awful picks.

In the 7th round you're picking longshots. I trust Andersson more than most to actually be able to find some hidden talent there. Not necessarily Z/Dats, but potential NHLers.

Compare his recent record with every other GM or scouting director - he's not finding impact players. Many other teams are, even in the later rounds.

I am suggesting that Hakan gets a lot of credit today for stuff that he did 15 years ago. There's another guy in the front office who has been on a similar cold streak and he gets absolutely crucified on an hourly basis here and elsewhere. What makes Hakan immune to the Tick Tock treatment?

 

[Frk It]

Compare his recent record with every other GM or scouting director - he's not finding impact players. Many other teams are, even in the later rounds.

I am suggesting that Hakan gets a lot of credit today for stuff that he did 15 years ago. There's another guy in the front office who has been on a similar cold streak and he gets absolutely crucified on an hourly basis here and elsewhere. What makes Hakan immune to the Tick Tock treatment?

How about factor in that he only gets the green light on picks in rounds 3-7, typically?

Even drafting NHL players in that range is a success, in it of itself.

Then to find guys like Nyqiust, and before that Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Ericsson is a very nice track record given where the guy is drafting.

Jarnkrok and Janmark are also pretty good picks for where they were taken as well.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I hope this guy succeeds. I would like nothing more in this world than to own an Elfstrom Wings jersey.

 

[fredligh]

Hm, maybe those days are over for hidden gems, sure no one heard of Elfström or Malmström. But neither had anyone heard about Rasmus Bodin and Hampus Melén when they were drafted. And neither of them wont sniff the NHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Hm, maybe those days are over for hidden gems, sure no one heard of Elfström or Malmström. But neither had anyone heard about Rasmus Bodin and Hampus Melén when they were drafted. And neither of them wont sniff the NHL.

The key word here is hidden. No one is hidden anymore. NHL scouts knew exactly who Elfstrom and Mamstrom were. Other teams just didn't value them as much as the Wings did.

 

[Frk It]

The key word here is hidden. No one is hidden anymore. NHL scouts knew exactly who Elfstrom and Mamstrom were. Other teams just didn't value them as much as the Wings did.

Maybe not completely hidden, but I imagine there is still the change that kids get overlooked that are playing overseas in lower leagues that aren't playing on their national teams at the WJC.

Kind of like with Nyquist. Although it seems kind of rare that a kid does not make their country's WJC team and becomes a great player. Even late round guys like Klingberg and Palat played on their WJC teams. So not a big track record there. I know Datsyuk is probably the best example of that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The key word here is hidden. No one is hidden anymore. NHL scouts knew exactly who Elfstrom and Mamstrom were. Other teams just didn't value them as much as the Wings did.

Ehh NHL scouts aren't omnipresent. They're people and have their connections and biases and when it comes to young hockey players, it can make a huge difference if you watch them on a good day or on a bad day. In the late rounds, you can for sure pick up guys that are "hidden".

 

[ChadS]

Elfström and Malmström are very different to Melén and Bodin, certainly much less "hidden" (agree with Rzombo4) due to playing U20 hockey. IMO, had he not encountered health issues I have no doubt Melén could have ended up developing similarily to Henrik Borgström from this year's draft. It was a really good pick that could have gone really well, but unfortunately those things happen.

I personally hope Håkan would focus on players with exceptional skill in the late rounds. However recently it seems like he's looking for guys with a combo of skill and size, and that definitely lowers the chances of finding a legit one in the late rounds. In that sense Melén could have really turned out well.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Ehh NHL scouts aren't omnipresent. They're people and have their connections and biases and when it comes to young hockey players, it can make a huge difference if you watch them on a good day or on a bad day. In the late rounds, you can for sure pick up guys that are "hidden".

The U20 and U18 Swedish leagues are very well scouted by NHL scouts. These are, after all, the leagues where the majority of draft-eligible kids play prior to being drafted. If you are playing in these leagues you will be seen by NHL scouts (and CHL scouts and USHL scouts and NCAA coaches). The world has gotten a lot smaller in the last 20 years.

Accurately assessing these players, however, is an entirely different issue.

 

[Frk It]

The key word here is hidden. No one is hidden anymore. NHL scouts knew exactly who Elfstrom and Mamstrom were. Other teams just didn't value them as much as the Wings did.

Did a search on Hakan and was reading some articles, and came across this.

For what it's worth:

From what Hakan Andersson told me, he was pushing for Elfstrom to be drafted earlier than he was - "[Tyler Wright] kept saying to me, ‘do you think we can play the draft a little bit? Do a lot of people know about him?’ and I had to admit, no they don’t, but when you like someone you need to grab them, but this worked out great for us." Andersson obviously talking about what a steal Elfstrom is at 197th overall. What’s even more awesome is that when asked if other teams knew about him he said, point-blank, "nope." That’s how good Hakan Andersson is at his job. He can find those highly-skilled diamonds in the rough, and turn them into late-round sleeper picks. In fact, Andersson had him in his top-ten on the Red Wings’ European list.

Thought this whole blurb was interesting.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...ospects-alfons-malmstrom-and-mattias-elfstrom

 

[Henkka]

Still this on my mind... if we got ~11th overall at 197th pick... I think that could be called as a steal.

 

[Frk It]

Still this on my mind... if we got ~11th overall at 197th pick... I think that could be called as a steal.

Notice in the article I quoted, Kyle says that Hakan had him ranked top 10 among Euro's.

Not sure if that means among all Euro's in the draft, or just for the range where Hakan is usually given picks (rounds 3-7), but still shows that he was high on the kid.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Notice in the article I quoted, Kyle says that Hakan had him ranked top 10 among Euro's.

Not sure if that means among all Euro's in the draft, or just for the range where Hakan is usually given picks (rounds 3-7), but still shows that he was high on the kid.

Well he compares him to sure fire first rounder and started asking for him earlier from the sounds of things. I would be surprised if he doesn't carry at least a second round grade with Hakan from what was said there...

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Did a search on Hakan and was reading some articles, and came across this.

For what it's worth:



Thought this whole blurb was interesting.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...ospects-alfons-malmstrom-and-mattias-elfstrom

I know I am in the minority, but I have a hard time reading those comments in a literal fashion. Elfstrom played 43 games for a well regarded Swedish club in the U20 division. Hakan may have watched him more than others, but he was certainly seen by other NHL scouts.

 

[Killerjas]

How is he doing? Will he ever make it to the AHL or SHL?

 

[Gniwder]

How is he doing? Will he ever make it to the AHL or SHL?

Got demoted to a lower league before the beginning of the season. Putting up decent numbers, but I doubt he amounts to much seeing that he'll be 22 in a couple of months.