GDT: 15 // 11 Nov // Stars @ Coyotes

[Vip]

You know.. You all gripe about Tippet saying the same **** over and over again but you gotta think as a coach, you run out of things to say. It's not his fault that he has **** players to work with on the roster. (inb4 but but but he wont play the younginz!!11!!)

Tippet is probably just as frustrated as we are.

 

[CC96]

I like to complain about Tippett, but Maloney is hugely responsible for this garbage roster, and should be criticized as much if not more so than Tippett around these parts, IMO. ^^

To Tippett's credit, I at least like the way he's handled Rieder so far, and hope he will continue to play Gormley regularly.

 

[rt]

The first 38mins of this game are the worst I've ever seen any NHL team play ever. Ever. But thankfully we held their hand through it, made sure they didn't get too down on themselves, kept them right in the game. You are welcome Dallas. We gifted you the confidence boost you need to completley turn your season around. You owe us for one therapy session. 60mins worth.

This was ****ing hilarious to watch. Our team is straight up comical. So bad we're funny.

Trade everyone. Fire everyone.

 

[XX]

To Tippett's credit, I at least like the way he's handled Rieder so far, and hope he will continue to play Gormley regularly.

Rieder plays a two way game out of the box. Dynamic offensive players rarely do that. Nothing has changed with regards to Tippett and young players.

I was low on sleep, so I passed out shortly after the Coyotes went up 2-0. Imagine my shock when I woke up to the postgame and saw the score. Even better was how they got there.

Fuel. The. Tank.

 

[CC96]

I wonder how he's going to handle Lucas if he gets called up this season. ^^

I still think the best litmus test is ultimately going to be Domi though. I'm really interested to see how that situation's going to work out, and it should pretty much give us a final indication as to whether or not Tippett is truly incapable of developing more purely skilled forwards.

 

[XX]

I wonder how he's going to handle Lucas if he gets called up this season. ^^

I still think the best litmus test is ultimately going to be Domi though. I'm really interested to see how that situation's going to work out, and it should pretty much give us a final indication as to whether or not Tippett is truly incapable of developing more purely skilled forwards.

He has no patience for kids learning on the job. He has said this publicly more than once: "The NHL is not for development", as if that's an acceptable attitude to have in a salary cap world.

Chris Brown took a ticky tack penalty and Tippett benched his ass for the rest of the game, he was sent down afterward and then ultimately traded. We've seen how he can't play players like Hodgman even after they perform. He is a major part of the problem. His biases would be great in a market that can tolerate them. Arizona is not that market.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Well that sucked. Not scoring on the numerous chances they gave us late was rough to watch. Hopefully the young guys are almost finished burning, because we have no skill up front right now.

 

[awfulwaffle]

The spark needed to get the rebuild effort from a mere matchstick flame into a raging brushfire, absolutely.

Why can't it be a raging wildfire? Because we are in the desert?

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Trade everyone. Fire everyone.

Voilà.

The current programme has not been successful in the past, is still not successful and is unlikely to get the franchise anywhere near to a Stanley cup in the future.

So why wait any longer?

 

[Jakey53]

I like to complain about Tippett, but Maloney is hugely responsible for this garbage roster, and should be criticized as much if not more so than Tippett around these parts, IMO. ^^

To Tippett's credit, I at least like the way he's handled Rieder so far, and hope he will continue to play Gormley regularly.

If the budget is as tight as we think it is, I totally blame the ownership. You can only do so much with the talent, or lack of talent you have.

 

[Jakey53]

Can Z hit the net with a shot from the point?

If you can't hit the net with a slapper, there is no harm in just wristing it up there so the boys can get a stick on it, it's not like he's going to score anyway, I don't know why he's so consistent and not hitting the net.

He's getting old, may need new contacts. I don't understand how you can miss the net by that much on a consistent basics.

 

[Jakey53]

Reider had one good look today but was otherwise invisible. Now, that's not a bad thing in and of itself but now he has 1 point in 5 games, which isn't great.

I only saw the first 30 minutes, but I thought Reider played a solid game. He was always around the puck on did not look out of place.

 

[YandlesMother]

If I were to even try to take positives from that dumpster fire of a choke job, I'd say that Smith continues to look like a goalie worth that contract (his best 4 goal performance of the year... sigh). Another positive is that OEL is back to looking like a stud.

The last two games I can boil down to our PP being totally out of sorts being the difference. I thought Yandle had his worst game of the year last night as well. That or he's in the McDavid camp.

 

[Jakey53]

If I were to even try to take positives from that dumpster fire of a choke job, I'd say that Smith continues to look like a goalie worth that contract (his best 4 goal performance of the year... sigh). Another positive is that OEL is back to looking like a stud.

The last two games I can boil down to our PP being totally out of sorts being the difference. I thought Yandle had his worst game of the year last night as well. That or he's in the McDavid camp.

Going 0 for 6 on the PP is terrible, and giving up a SH is even worse. That is probably DT's fault too.

 

[IPreferPi]

Another positive is that OEL is back to looking like a stud.

The last two games I can boil down to our PP being totally out of sorts being the difference. I thought Yandle had his worst game of the year last night as well. That or he's in the McDavid camp.

OEL had an ok game, but was part of 2 breakaways. The first one he was able to catch up to Benn (who isn't the fastest guy around) and backcheck. The second one granted was at the end of a PP and he just got burned by Garbutt. Should've forced a penalty shot IMO.

Yandle I thought was very solid overall, save the 2 goals he was on ice for in the 3rd. But the dude was trying everything he could to get a goal on the last PP, including feeding it to Hanzal who somehow couldn't bury it at point blank range

 

[YandlesMother]

OEL had an ok game, but was part of 2 breakaways. The first one he was able to catch up to Benn (who isn't the fastest guy around) and backcheck. The second one granted was at the end of a PP and he just got burned by Garbutt. Should've forced a penalty shot IMO.

Yandle I thought was very solid overall, save the 2 goals he was on ice for in the 3rd. But the dude was trying everything he could to get a goal on the last PP, including feeding it to Hanzal who somehow couldn't bury it at point blank range

I think I'm probably guilty of hyper focus on the 2 goals Yandle was out for. The first (pass along the boards in our defensive zone) was worst than the second. He didn't pinch particularly hard on the SH.

I thought it was refreshing to see a more physical OEL and I thought the back check on the breakaway you mentioned was a really nice play. It also seemed like his passing was better than it had been.

I need to watch a replay when I get home, but I should probably put more PP blame on Vermette and some of our other PP forwards who have been invisible.

 

[AZ 4th Liner]

I am not a fan of over reaction but after the game last night I think that is time to make some changes. You can blame a lot of things but the biggest problem is not a lack skill or ability but rather a lack of heart. That you can not coach or force it. Someone needs to step-up in the locker room.

 

[TheLegend]

I like to complain about Tippett, but Maloney is hugely responsible for this garbage roster, and should be criticized as much if not more so than Tippett around these parts, IMO. ^^

To Tippett's credit, I at least like the way he's handled Rieder so far, and hope he will continue to play Gormley regularly.

Maloney has had his hands pretty much tied for the last 6 years. For the most part he's gotten more out of nothing than any other GM would have been able to do given the constraints he's had.

Sure he's had his mistakes but he's also owned up to a lot of them publicly.

 

[BUX7PHX]

You know.. You all gripe about Tippet saying the same **** over and over again but you gotta think as a coach, you run out of things to say. It's not his fault that he has **** players to work with on the roster. (inb4 but but but he wont play the younginz!!11!!)

Tippet is probably just as frustrated as we are.

What else can he say?

We had our most skilled players out on the ice during the PP. Skill doesn't get you everywhere. You have to be able to execute when you are out on the ice. If we execute solidly, we do not put ourselves in the position to allow a shortie.

Hypothetical situation here - let's say that the staff brings Lessio, Szwarz, and Hodgman up and refuses to play Chip, Klink, etc. We go down 1-0 with about 5 minutes left in the 1st period. Do any of those new guys that were brought up say, "Screw it, we need a goal, so I need my skill to take over"? Knowing that the player may spend more energy and focus on offense that they take themselves out of sound defensive positioning or other fundamentals that can lead to giving up more goals?

I think the new guy, AZ 4th Liner, said it best - it is not necessarily limited to just a talent or skill thing. It is being sound fundamentally throughout the game from a physical and mental standpoint, even if it means playing "boring hockey." That's why staff has been hesitant to bring those "skill" players up - there is no guarantee that the new players can remind themselves to stay even-keeled, whether down or up through games or the season. Let the veterans who have been through that before deal with it, even if it means being a part of a garbage season. The last thing you want is for fresh faces to start to get involved in a losing identity, which is what we are going through now.

 

[Plub]

OEL had an ok game, but was part of 2 breakaways. The first one he was able to catch up to Benn (who isn't the fastest guy around) and backcheck. The second one granted was at the end of a PP and he just got burned by Garbutt. Should've forced a penalty shot IMO.

Yandle I thought was very solid overall, save the 2 goals he was on ice for in the 3rd. But the dude was trying everything he could to get a goal on the last PP, including feeding it to Hanzal who somehow couldn't bury it at point blank range

It's funny that you say Yandle was solid, but OEL was just okay. That SH goal was much more on Yandle than OEL no matter how you try to spin it.

Using a situation where he caught a player from behind and stripped the puck as a negative is a bit odd as well.

OEL stood up Seguin and Benn one on one multiple times last night. Two goals were on Yandle. One of which was essentially 100% his fault. He failed to get the puck out and was beat clean by his man to the front of the net (he wasn't roughed up at all).

I don't get the attempts to always make excuses for Yandle, but always look for negatives for OEL. I really don't.

 

[YandlesMother]

It's funny that you say Yandle was solid, but OEL was just okay. That SH goal was much more on Yandle than OEL no matter how you try to spin it.

Using a situation where he caught a player from behind and stripped the puck as a negative is a bit odd as well.

OEL stood up Seguin and Benn one on one multiple times last night. Two goals were on Yandle. One of which was essentially 100% his fault. He failed to get the puck out and was beat clean by his man to the front of the net (he wasn't roughed up at all).

I don't get the attempts to always make excuses for Yandle, but always look for negatives for OEL. I really don't.

This is literally the opposite of what happens 99.9% of the time. Excuses are normally made for OEL and not for Yandle. As a long time yandle apologist this post is making me die.

 

[IPreferPi]

It's funny that you say Yandle was solid, but OEL was just okay. That SH goal was much more on Yandle than OEL no matter how you try to spin it.

Using a situation where he caught a player from behind and stripped the puck as a negative is a bit odd as well.

OEL stood up Seguin and Benn one on one multiple times last night. Two goals were on Yandle. One of which was essentially 100% his fault. He failed to get the puck out and was beat clean by his man to the front of the net (he wasn't roughed up at all).

I don't get the attempts to always make excuses for Yandle, but always look for negatives for OEL. I really don't.

Oh please, when Yandle went through his putrid stage last season I was on his case. I'll fault him the 3rd goal as he should have cleared the puck, but the SHG was just a team epic fail that absolutely should not be scapegoated on Yandle

And I tend to cut both Ollie and Yandle a lot of slack when it comes to defensive errors as it's unreasonable to expect them to carry our offensive load nearly 100% of the time while also playing immaculate defense. That being said, Yandle has certainly been playing career best D this season while OEL has been playing career worst. Last night doesn't change anything in both regards

 

[TheLegend]

It's funny that you say Yandle was solid, but OEL was just okay. That SH goal was much more on Yandle than OEL no matter how you try to spin it.

Using a situation where he caught a player from behind and stripped the puck as a negative is a bit odd as well.

OEL stood up Seguin and Benn one on one multiple times last night. Two goals were on Yandle. One of which was essentially 100% his fault. He failed to get the puck out and was beat clean by his man to the front of the net (he wasn't roughed up at all).

I don't get the attempts to always make excuses for Yandle, but always look for negatives for OEL. I really don't.

There's a cause and effect to everything. Had Vermette not grossly missed the net..... then chances are Yandle would not have been caught flat footed..... and OEL would not have also been caught flatfooted...... and Smitty would not have had to miss a hero save like the dozen or so other he made that night.

But Mikkel Boedker said it best in the post game last night. They let the Stars (a team that had serious confidence issues going in) back into the game after having them on the floor with a two goal lead.

It's really beginning to get nauseous seeing people in these GDTs looking for one player to blame the entire loss on. But the facts are it's a 60 minute game and there are at least 19 different people involved in it at one time or another.

 

[_Del_]

Hypothetical situation here - let's say that the staff brings Lessio, Szwarz, and Hodgman up and refuses to play Chip, Klink, etc. We go down 1-0 with about 5 minutes left in the 1st period. Do any of those new guys that were brought up say, "Screw it, we need a goal, so I need my skill to take over"? Knowing that the player may spend more energy and focus on offense that they take themselves out of sound defensive positioning or other fundamentals that can lead to giving up more goals?

...

That's why staff has been hesitant to bring those "skill" players up - there is no guarantee that the new players can remind themselves to stay even-keeled, whether down or up through games or the season. Let the veterans who have been through that before deal with it, even if it means being a part of a garbage season.

I really am on board with this line of thinking. I don't think you'll find any posts from me clamoring for prospects instead of giving ice time to defensively sound veterans. The problem is that three of the veteran guys we are giving top nine ice time to have no business being anywhere north of the 4th line. If there was any evidence that Chipchura would not "take themselves out of sound defensive positioning or other fundamentals that can lead to giving up more goals?" in the same way that Gordon or Fiddler or some of the other excellent bottom six forwards we've had in the past would not, then I'd be fine. But Chipchura is out of position and turns over the puck (mainly by overhandling it) all the damn time. I don't think the difference between Chipchura overhandling the puck and Hodgman overhandling the puck is offset at all by any great defensively play coming out of Chip. And Hodgman is going to produce more on offense. If it was Gordon vs Hodgman, the equation changes dramatically. I'd still want to ease Hodgman into the lineup, but I understand what Gordon brings to the table and how valuable that is. Vitale isn't quite as good as Gordon, imo, but I don't think you've seen many people asking that Vitale get scratched for Hodgman or Lessio, etc. He contributes something to the roster, even if it's only on the 4th line and the pk.
We have several other guys that aren't contributing anything but carbon dioxide to this team. They aren't sound defensively -- have you seen the last two seasons? Even when they were successful early last season they were horrid defensively. It's hard to convince myself that they would be substantially worse on defense with Hodgman, Rieder and Lessio in the lineup than they are with Chipchura, Moss, Crombeen and Klink. Moss is the only half reliable one of that crew. Klink is alright when he's on. The other two are just there. Hodgman, Rieder, and Lessio are going to score more goals than the scrubs. We have no offense.

Bottom line is: I think we're a better team with offensive young players with defensive warts than we are with old, comfortable veterans with defensive warts.

 

[Matias Maccete]

What else can he say?

We had our most skilled players out on the ice during the PP. Skill doesn't get you everywhere. You have to be able to execute when you are out on the ice. If we execute solidly, we do not put ourselves in the position to allow a shortie.

Hypothetical situation here - let's say that the staff brings Lessio, Szwarz, and Hodgman up and refuses to play Chip, Klink, etc. We go down 1-0 with about 5 minutes left in the 1st period. Do any of those new guys that were brought up say, "Screw it, we need a goal, so I need my skill to take over"? Knowing that the player may spend more energy and focus on offense that they take themselves out of sound defensive positioning or other fundamentals that can lead to giving up more goals?

I think the new guy, AZ 4th Liner, said it best - it is not necessarily limited to just a talent or skill thing. It is being sound fundamentally throughout the game from a physical and mental standpoint, even if it means playing "boring hockey." That's why staff has been hesitant to bring those "skill" players up - there is no guarantee that the new players can remind themselves to stay even-keeled, whether down or up through games or the season. Let the veterans who have been through that before deal with it, even if it means being a part of a garbage season. The last thing you want is for fresh faces to start to get involved in a losing identity, which is what we are going through now.

Losing our identity? Our identity has been lost for damn near as long the lindbergh baby. We haven't been a strong forechecking, defensively responsible hard working team for two seasons prior to this one, and its gotten worse each year. It's not getting better its getting worse every year, every month, every game. Our identity these last two years plus this one to me is best summed up as wildly inconsistent play with frequent poor effort shown, and frequent giant mistakes resulting in goals against that don't get corrected.

Different players may not be the answer, but the current ones and the current system are definitely the wrong answer.

And before you blame the roster solely on maloney remember he only signed moss at tippetts request, and tip had a large say in the ribeiro signing too, tip very much shoulders some of the blame. That doesn't absolve don of course, he should've stopped listening to tip after the ribeiro debacle. Edited some autocorrect mistakes.