GDT: 12/8/2013 - Panthers @ Hawks

[jrockett1096]

Maybe it is time for Florida to trade Matthias. Looks like they've decided right or wrong that they are going with the kids. Matthias deserves better than to be jerked around. First star to warming the bench in 24 hours; who else on this team gets treated in such a fashion? On the contrary the under achievers of late who will remain nameless but should be obvious keep getting played shift after shift, Funny Matthias first star in Vancouver they win game, First star in Detroit they win game. They sure as hell haven't won many in between have they. Trade the kid!

If this team is going with the "kids" then Matthias should be the one staying because he's only 25. Now Marcel Goc is 30 (no kid) and its Goc who is taking Matthias's minutes playing on the 3rd line so if the Panthers are going with the "kids" than its Goc who should be going so Matthias can get the more ice time and another kid can play 4th line center such as Drew Shore.

 

[SeasonTicket]

caught much of the 3rd and thought it was pretty good effort. again, night and day in terms of compete and structure as compared dineen's team.

so easy to second this stuff. first of all, managing the bench during the game isn't a one-person job. the guy managing the Fs has to have his finger on the pulse of each line. i believe madden is running the Fs so if you don't like the ice time distribution, you should probably start with him. i wasn't able to watch the 1st period but it's very likely that either the coaches anticipated or felt that matthias' line wouldn't/didn't have the jump they had last night. i saw a decent amount of matthias in the 3rd and he looked ok. also have to consider the number of penalties and how that threw off the rhythm of the lines.

QUOTE]

I'd agree with you except Matthias played less than 2 minutes in the 1st. Like the other poster said coming off a strong game the night before you would figure he would play him and see what he had in the 2nd of a back to back but he was glued to the bench from the start of the game. Looked like the game plan was 3 line rotation from the start IMO.
Even on the PK he was overlooked last night and I think he is one of our best PKers with his speed.

 

[SeasonTicket]

2 games in 24 hours. In Detroit ice time was managed properly - 4 lines going at 13-15 minutes each line. They win 2-1. Chicago they lose 6-2. Three lines getting all the ice, the legs weren't there. My ***** after a winning outing why bench Boyes, bring in Barch and move Hayes up a line when the night before the Hayes, Winchester, Matthias line may have been the best line? That's on Horacheck and a lousy call! What did Barch do, fought a bogus joke of a fight they says what? Look fellas we're losing 6-2 but yeah, yeah we're tough ain't we. Barch should not have been in that game and we should have run four lines equally!

Here is a quote from the Sun-sentinel regarding Boyes being scratched.

"Boyes benched

The Panthers scratched defenseman Mike Mottau, forward Scott Gomez, and surprisingly Brad Boyes, who leads the team with eight goals. Boyes was scratched on Nov. 7 in coach Kevin Dineen's last game.

"I didn't think he competed hard enough away from the puck [against Detroit], when he didn't have the puck on his stick to get the puck back,'' Horachek said. "There has to be accountability everywhere.''

I agree with Horacek's statement in bold but I thing you also have to give reward when it's due.

That Winchester, Matthias, Hayes line was the best line in the Detroit game. They rewarded Hayes for his strong game but why not Matthias. Matthias earned the 1st star with his 2 assist. He was going hard all night in that game.

So why would they glue him to the bench the next game?????

Accountability

 

[hockey dude]

Here is a quote from the Sun-sentinel regarding Boyes being scratched.

"Boyes benched

The Panthers scratched defenseman Mike Mottau, forward Scott Gomez, and surprisingly Brad Boyes, who leads the team with eight goals. Boyes was scratched on Nov. 7 in coach Kevin Dineen's last game.

"I didn't think he competed hard enough away from the puck [against Detroit], when he didn't have the puck on his stick to get the puck back,'' Horachek said. "There has to be accountability everywhere.''

I agree with Horacek's statement in bold but I thing you also have to give reward when it's due.

That Winchester, Matthias, Hayes line was the best line in the Detroit game. They rewarded Hayes for his strong game but why not Matthias. Matthias earned the 1st star with his 2 assist. He was going hard all night in that game.

So why would they glue him to the bench the next game?????

Accountability

There is no accountability on this team. There are Dale Tallon contracts only. Boyes and Winchester are cheap thus they can be scapegoats. When Flash and Kopecky play like they have been: where is the accountability? Matthias has had to take a back seat because they've decided that Barkov and Bjugstad are the future. Well that may well be but are they really lighting it up in the present. Seems to me there is no competition for ice time at center position. Have Bjugstad and Barkov really earned their big minutes? Bjugstad maybe to a degree. Barkov no. I'm tired of being sold the future. We can and should be winning now! And what's with the power play? Why not give Matthias a chance? Can't be any worse than what gets thrown out game after game. Kopecky on the powerplay. Come on!

 

[Hockeycast]

I really hope that this was Clemmensen's last start as a Panther

 

[hockey dude]

caught much of the 3rd and thought it was pretty good effort. again, night and day in terms of compete and structure as compared dineen's team.

so easy to second this stuff. first of all, managing the bench during the game isn't a one-person job. the guy managing the Fs has to have his finger on the pulse of each line. i believe madden is running the Fs so if you don't like the ice time distribution, you should probably start with him. i wasn't able to watch the 1st period but it's very likely that either the coaches anticipated or felt that matthias' line wouldn't/didn't have the jump they had last night. i saw a decent amount of matthias in the 3rd and he looked ok. also have to consider the number of penalties and how that threw off the rhythm of the lines.

QUOTE]

I'd agree with you except Matthias played less than 2 minutes in the 1st. Like the other poster said coming off a strong game the night before you would figure he would play him and see what he had in the 2nd of a back to back but he was glued to the bench from the start of the game. Looked like the game plan was 3 line rotation from the start IMO.
Even on the PK he was overlooked last night and I think he is one of our best PKers with his speed.

The moment Barch was inserted it was definitely the game plan to go with three lines. I've got to ask; is that logical in a back to back game scenario? And what NHL coach have you ever met sits a guy who has had a hot hand the night before? Something stinks here!

 

[Laus723]

Don't know where to start with hockey dude's nonsense; wonder if you watch any of the games or really even get hockey.

 

[adam graves]

I have to admit I was completely baffled by the boyes benching and mathias line shakeup after a rare successful game the night before. We rarely score 3 goals, everyone knew wed need offense to counter the Clemmer effect, bench our top scorer?

Hoping we get a head coach with nhl Head Coach experience next year for the lst time in a long time.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Guys I had this dream that Clemm started vs the Blackhawks.....



Oh I see.

 

[hockey dude]

Don't know where to start with hockey dude's nonsense; wonder if you watch any of the games or really even get hockey.

Yes, maybe you can explain hockey to me. Geez, I would appreciate that. Come on man, please explain to me why I have to buy into this BS? Tell me about good coaching, ice time and accountability please. I'm sorry I'm just not buying in.

 

[RainingRats]

I think the team is playing better under the new coach. More structure, less blowouts, we look competitive in the losses and have beaten some good teams. Our PP is absolutely killing us and so is a lack of talent. I like the way things are looking. Hayes and Olsen have been nice surprises so far. Gudbranson is playing his best hockey and Bjugstad has shown he has the potential to be a good top 6 center. Upshall has been fantastic but I think that he's doing what Matthias and Kopecky did last year.

 

[RainingRats]

I have to admit I was completely baffled by the boyes benching and mathias line shakeup after a rare successful game the night before. We rarely score 3 goals, everyone knew wed need offense to counter the Clemmer effect, bench our top scorer?

Hoping we get a head coach with nhl Head Coach experience next year for the lst time in a long time.

Who cares if Boyes is the leading goal scorer. He needs to be held accountable like everyone else. He could have scored a goal but also been on the ice and responsible for one or two last night. Boyes is no Bure. We can certainly win without him.

Maybe one good game doesn't earn Matthias more ice time? He's not going to add much offense anyway. Coach probably wants to see more consistency.

He was an assistant for long enough at the NHL level. Your philosophy that we need a coach with NHL head coaching experience is silly. Every experienced nhl head coach at one point wasn't an experienced nhl head coach. All we've heard are good things from the locker room so far. There's way too much nepotism and coach recycling as it is at the NHL level. Fresh blood can be a good thing.

 

[adam graves]

Who cares if Boyes is the leading goal scorer. He needs to be held accountable like everyone else. He could have scored a goal but also been on the ice and responsible for one or two last night. Boyes is no Bure. We can certainly win without him.

Maybe one good game doesn't earn Matthias more ice time? He's not going to add much offense anyway. Coach probably wants to see more consistency.

He was an assistant for long enough at the NHL level. Your philosophy that we need a coach with NHL head coaching experience is silly. Every experienced nhl head coach at one point wasn't an experienced nhl head coach. All we've heard are good things from the locker room so far. There's way too much nepotism and coach recycling as it is at the NHL level. Fresh blood can be a good thing.

First you need to disagree with someone without calling their opinion silly. Its an opinion, with a basis. Feel free to disagree, and I happily listen and digest your opinions regardless how much I vehemently may disagree. but don't bring yourself down to a middle school level.

Next I don't blame Horachuk for us sucking while hes coach just like I don't blame dineen when we sucked earlier this year. Its a team that lacks proven veteran high end talent. Structure, shmucture, we cant score more than 2 goals most nights and if we have to sit our starter...well you know what happens. Not either coaches fault. I enjoyed the natural bump you get when coaches change, but you still cant squeeze water from a rock.

I absolutely believe next year the team and its fans deserve a coach whose been a HC behind a NHL bench. This is the 3rd consecutive Coach weve hired without NHL HC experience likely for budgetary reasons. I'd like someone both vets and rookies will look up at, and I believe his salary is a worthwhile investment.


That's my opinion.

Silly or not.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

I have to admit I was completely baffled by the boyes benching

I don't think it's that surprising in the end, sure he leads the team in goals but it´s still just 8 goals. He is on a pace to score what, just around 20 goals for the whole season?

Also if you look at his goals, four of the came in the first five games of the season. He has since scored four goals in the last 24 games... he really doesn't bring a lot to this team at the moment.

 

[adam graves]

I don't think it's that surprising in the end, sure he leads the team in goals but it´s still just 8 goals. He is on a pace to score what, just around 20 goals for the whole season?

Also if you look at his goals, four of the came in the first five games of the season. He has since scored four goals in the last 24 games... he really doesn't bring a lot to this team at the moment.

He our poor mans best guy. Its sad but true.

Who else is on pace for 20 goals?

 

[hockey dude]

Who cares if Boyes is the leading goal scorer. He needs to be held accountable like everyone else. He could have scored a goal but also been on the ice and responsible for one or two last night. Boyes is no Bure. We can certainly win without him.

Maybe one good game doesn't earn Matthias more ice time? He's not going to add much offense anyway. Coach probably wants to see more consistency.

He was an assistant for long enough at the NHL level. Your philosophy that we need a coach with NHL head coaching experience is silly. Every experienced nhl head coach at one point wasn't an experienced nhl head coach. All we've heard are good things from the locker room so far. There's way too much nepotism and coach recycling as it is at the NHL level. Fresh blood can be a good thing.

Don't disagree re accountability, questioning more the timing of pulling Boyes to add Barch and take Hayes off of a line that did very well on a back to back game day(s). Don't see a lot difference in consistency levels between, Barkov, Bjugstad and Matthias. Wonder if Matthias had as much ice as those two and the PP time where his consistency would be. Thinking these young guys can't be just given their ice time. Thay have to understand the give and take and the compete level to keep ice time minutes. Tallon can show case all he wants but in the end what type of hockey player do you have? Good words about coaching from the locker room. First there should be no words from the locker room and since when is coaching a popularity contest? Horacheck is probably a good interim due to lost causes and all but in the end we need someone who can demand winning a la Scottie Bowman and Vince Lombardi. Nice guys finish last!

 

[zeroG]

2 games in 24 hours. In Detroit ice time was managed properly - 4 lines going at 13-15 minutes each line. They win 2-1. Chicago they lose 6-2. Three lines getting all the ice, the legs weren't there. My ***** after a winning outing why bench Boyes, bring in Barch and move Hayes up a line when the night before the Hayes, Winchester, Matthias line may have been the best line? That's on Horacheck and a lousy call! What did Barch do, fought a bogus joke of a fight they says what? Look fellas we're losing 6-2 but yeah, yeah we're tough ain't we. Barch should not have been in that game and we should have run four lines equally!

uh... you just said the same thing you said earlier and didn't even consider what i posted.

even tho i didn't think dineen was a good coach, i went with him over the fans on these types of calls and i'll certainly go with horachek, especially when he's got madden and screwy giving him the scoop. there's little doubt horachek is relying on those 2 a lot but even if he weren't, i'd still say that's his prerogative; he didn't get to this level without having some kind of a clue (although dineen has made me rethink that old adage).

Who cares if Boyes is the leading goal scorer. He needs to be held accountable like everyone else. He could have scored a goal but also been on the ice and responsible for one or two last night. Boyes is no Bure. We can certainly win without him.

Maybe one good game doesn't earn Matthias more ice time? He's not going to add much offense anyway. Coach probably wants to see more consistency.

He was an assistant for long enough at the NHL level. Your philosophy that we need a coach with NHL head coaching experience is silly. Every experienced nhl head coach at one point wasn't an experienced nhl head coach. All we've heard are good things from the locker room so far. There's way too much nepotism and coach recycling as it is at the NHL level. Fresh blood can be a good thing.

yeah - horachek's doing fine.

fans are fickle. we'll get a retread and for one reason or another, it won't work out and then they'll be calling for someone fresh. they're like chickens without a head.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

He our poor mans best guy. Its sad but true.

Who else is on pace for 20 goals?

Well actually he isn't either if you look at his current trajectory since the start of the season seems to be an anomaly.

I think the benching simply has to do with the fact that he doesn't bring anything else to the team except his scoring ability and since he isn't scoring goals... well, no reason to have him in the lineup.

 

[adam graves]

Well actually he isn't either if you look at his current trajectory since the start of the season seems to be an anomaly.

I think the benching simply has to do with the fact that he doesn't bring anything else to the team except his scoring ability and since he isn't scoring goals... well, no reason to have him in the lineup.

I see your point.

The problem we have is just like Versteeg, we cant ride through natural goal scorers slumps becuasae...we have so few goal scorers. They are all streaky, but the balme is we don't have enough of them more so than that they get cold.

 

[RogerBR]

Surely it was the coach strategy. He did not believed on Panthers succes against the top team and decided to save his best to use where it makes difference... Specially on a B2B games. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[hockey dude]

Surely it was the coach strategy. He did not believed on Panthers succes against the top team and decided to save his best to use where it makes difference... Specially on a B2B games. Is that so hard to understand?

Sure I understand using Thomas in the first game against Detroit to go after the win and having to use Clemmer the second game when odds of winning may be less. But will never understand a decision to change a lineup so dramatically from what worked the night before and to reduce the four lines to three lines on the second night of a back to back. Taking Hayes off the fourth line at that point in time was plain and simple, poorly thought out! And Barch fighting late in the third period when the score is 5-2 was that necessary? What did Barch bring to that game that Boyes couldn't have possibly exceeded? And maybe Hayes, Winchester and Matthias may have popped a couple more goals and maybe the other lines may have had a bit of zip in their step if their minutes had been better managed.

 

[SeasonTicket]

Who cares if Boyes is the leading goal scorer. He needs to be held accountable like everyone else. He could have scored a goal but also been on the ice and responsible for one or two last night. Boyes is no Bure. We can certainly win without him.

Maybe one good game doesn't earn Matthias more ice time? He's not going to add much offense anyway. Coach probably wants to see more consistency.

He was an assistant for long enough at the NHL level. Your philosophy that we need a coach with NHL head coaching experience is silly. Every experienced nhl head coach at one point wasn't an experienced nhl head coach. All we've heard are good things from the locker room so far. There's way too much nepotism and coach recycling as it is at the NHL level. Fresh blood can be a good thing.

Yeah like our constant love affair with everything Nashville.

If you coached there, played there, or even drove through the city you seem to get special treatment in Florida.