GDT: 12/30/23 - 7:00PM EDT - New York Rangers vs Tampa Bay

[These Are The Days]

JFBB gave up a lot but we won championships. It was always next year with Yzerman and that's what kept happening

 

[T REX]

Until the Jeannot trade, he really hadn't "mortgaged the future" that badly for a team with a win now mindset. None of the 1sts moved in the Coleman. Goodrow or even Hagel deals were going to help this team win a Cup with this core, and all 3 trades proved successful. The Savard trade was a little weaker but still helped bolster the defense, even if it was a straight rental. The Jeannot trade is the only one that looks bad, and mainly because those picks could've likely been used to acquire more needed assets. Some of the contracts are too high, but in 2 years and beyond, there's a decent chance they look much better with a significantly higher cap. I wish they would've kept Colton or signed another ufa over Sheary(and never acquired Jeannot, usibg that money towards a dman), but JBB isn't perfect. It's far from dark days ahead, especially in another year or two when they will have the cap space flexibility(not to mention the likely emergence of a few talented elc's on the way) to be very strong again.

Disagree. Even with "cap" space...everyone else is getting cap too. This window is over. And that's ok. We did well and wouldn't trade any of it for anything. But thinking we are just some cap space away from contending again is way out there.

 

[Hoek]

The margin of error shrank too much on JBB I don't think any GM would've done that much better to be frank have you seen some of the dumb shit other teams have been doing? The teams we're jealous of right now were in a much easier position

 

[Meuracas]

Trade Cirelli, Paul.

Playoff teams will be interested in Motte, glendening, Ace

Priority is signing actual nhl level defenseman. Fluery, dehaan, raddysh and perbix shouldn't be sniffing any minutes with this team next year. Trade whoever, to clear cap to actually sign or trade for a legit #2 LD that can play 20+ minutes a night on a shutdown pair with Cernak.


Brother. We're there now

…and then what? Hope that new players, coaches and GM do a better job? Within what timeframe? And then fire or trade them too if it doesn’t work?

That’s the KHL operating model.

 

[JTBF81]

Problem is they've tried the plug and play dman a few times now and it's not working. They need a legit dman. They can only afford old, useless players with their lack of cap so Cirelli and some of the mid contracts have to go. Cap is needed to sign an actually NHL player that can make an impact. A shake uo needs to be made

They view Cirelli, Hagel, Serg and Cernak as part of the current and future core. None of them are getting moved after signing 8 year deals. They have 3/4 of a solid blue line, and they need a top 4 stay at home RD to balance it out. Someone like Lyubushkin comes to mind, and he's someone they could manage. They can have Perbix/Raddysh/Thompson battle for the 3RD, and for 3LD try and get Nick Seeler via trade or ufa. The 3LD is likely to be a min level or just above contract, but that's expected. One more middle/top 6 F could ve acquired as well if JBB feels.that's needed this season, and names like Duclair or Dickinson come to mind(and possibly could be extended, but not at the expense of solidifying the blueline).

 

[DaBolts]

I just got home. I guess the Jeannot trade isn't so great again. I saw the highlights, why is 2023 Vasy on the ice and not the upgraded 2024 version?

 

[These Are The Days]

The margin of error shrank too much on JBB I don't think any GM would've done that much better to be frank have you seen some of the dumb shit other teams have been doing? The teams we're jealous of right now were in a much easier position

Every time I wanna hate, I kiss the rings and smile. I think we're gonna be okay

 

[JTBF81]

Disagree. Even with "cap" space...everyone else is getting cap too. This window is over. And that's ok. We did well and wouldn't trade any of it for anything. But thinking we are just some cap space away from contending again is way out there.

Very much disagree that this window is shut. Structural and personnel changes need to.occur on the blueline, but the offensive ability is still there. There are also a handful of capable prospects in the system, and the rising cap will allow more than enough flexibility(starting the year after next, maybe this summer if Stamkos doesn't re-sign, to make significant improvements).

 

[T REX]

Very much disagree that this window is shut. Structural and personnel changes need to.occur on the blueline, but the offensive ability is still there. There are also a handful of capable prospects in the system, and the rising cap will allow more than enough flexibility(starting the year after next, maybe this summer if Stamkos doesn't re-sign, to make significant improvements).

Two years? Huh? Handful of prospects? You serious clark?

This is major denial. Give us the names of these NHL ready prospects.

I'm shocked but not really.

 

[JTBF81]

Two years? Huh? Handful of prospects? You serious clark?

This is major denial. Give us the names of these NHL ready prospects.

I'm shocked but not really.

Not really. In two years there will be much more cap available, and yes, prospects such as Howard, Thompson, Huhtanen, Gauthier, Duke(and there are others), all show potential to be NHL regulars. Tampa can use them either in the lineup or as trade assets if needed. The cap is going up year over year now by a decent bit more than the 1 million over the last several years, so cap flexibility, both with trades and ufa, will be far greater. The core will still be solid for another 3 seasons at least, and the window remains open as long as Vasy finds his form again and as I said, there are both system and personnel changes on the blueline. Not surprised by more doom and gloom posts saying the sky is falling, it's pretty expected around here.

 

[T REX]

Not really. In two years there will be much more cap available, and yes, prospects such as Howard, Thompson, Huhtanen, Gauthier, Duke(and there are others), all show potential to be NHL regulars. Tampa can use them either in the lineup or as trade assets if needed. The cap is going up year over year now by a decent bit more than the 1 million over the last several years, so cap flexibility, both with trades and ufa, will be far greater. The core will still be solid for another 3 seasons at least, and the window remains open as long as Vasy finds his form again and as I said, there are both system and personnel changes on the blueline. Not surprised by more doom and gloom posts saying the sky is falling, it's pretty expected around here.

30. Tampa Bay Lightning​

Previous Ranking: 32​

Top Five Prospects: Ethan Gauthier, Jack Thompson, Isaac Howard, Hugo Alnefelt, Dylan Duke​

The Tampa Bay Lightning narrowly avoided hitting the bottom spot here for a second consecutive time, and that is mostly thanks to the addition of Ethan Gauthier in the second round of the 2023 Draft. Tampa has been going all in for several years now and that has really caught up with them in terms of their prospect pool, which is now slightly less bleak than it was a summer ago.

Gauthier is clearly their best prospect at the moment for me, combining a high-skill game (he challenges and beats a lot of defenders one-on-one) with a very competitive and physical style. He works incredibly hard which manifests in his ability to win 50/50 puck races, gaining position in front of the opposing net, and getting under his opponents’ skin at will. I think there’s a good chance Gauthier can be a middle-six winger for the Lightning someday, but that’s not enough to vault them out of the league’s basement in terms of prospect pools.

Isaac Howard is a bit of a wild card here, with the potential to leapfrog Gauthier as the team’s best prospect or to fall off the map entirely. Howard has incredible skill and skates well, but his size and lack of a competitive edge were issues for him last year as a freshman in the NCAA. He transferred to Michigan State University for next season so here’s hoping he can find his consistency and show the skill that made him a clear choice to go early in the 2022 Draft.

I was searching for Org rankings for minor leaguers...yeah...help is totally on the way. Plus we need Vasy to somehow become the Vasy of yesteryear. Holding my breath. SMDH.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Sheary and Barre Boulet do almost nothing out there. Glendening is just a guy to eat ice time, similar to innings eaters in baseball. They don't have enough pure scorers anymore, and certainly don't have enough skill to create (partial) open net chances that you need in today's NHL.

 

[Point21]

Im not going to anymore games this year until maybe the playoffs... between the asshole fans i get stuck next too and the performance on the ice 95% of the time... add in the price of Tickets/Parking/Food/Drinks its not worth putting in the effort or money into a team thats not even gonna look like they want to be there to begin with.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Very few saying it but Pointer’s gotta point.

 

[JTBF81]

30. Tampa Bay Lightning​

Previous Ranking: 32​

Top Five Prospects: Ethan Gauthier, Jack Thompson, Isaac Howard, Hugo Alnefelt, Dylan Duke​

The Tampa Bay Lightning narrowly avoided hitting the bottom spot here for a second consecutive time, and that is mostly thanks to the addition of Ethan Gauthier in the second round of the 2023 Draft. Tampa has been going all in for several years now and that has really caught up with them in terms of their prospect pool, which is now slightly less bleak than it was a summer ago.

Gauthier is clearly their best prospect at the moment for me, combining a high-skill game (he challenges and beats a lot of defenders one-on-one) with a very competitive and physical style. He works incredibly hard which manifests in his ability to win 50/50 puck races, gaining position in front of the opposing net, and getting under his opponents’ skin at will. I think there’s a good chance Gauthier can be a middle-six winger for the Lightning someday, but that’s not enough to vault them out of the league’s basement in terms of prospect pools.

Isaac Howard is a bit of a wild card here, with the potential to leapfrog Gauthier as the team’s best prospect or to fall off the map entirely. Howard has incredible skill and skates well, but his size and lack of a competitive edge were issues for him last year as a freshman in the NCAA. He transferred to Michigan State University for next season so here’s hoping he can find his consistency and show the skill that made him a clear choice to go early in the 2022 Draft.

I was searching for Org rankings for minor leaguers...yeah...help is totally on the way. Plus we need Vasy to somehow become the Vasy of yesteryear. Holding my breath. SMDH.

I could care less what some prospect rankings show tbh. As I said, they have a handful of guys who could be of help. I never said they were NHL ready now either, those were your words. In two years, the core will still be solid and some of these guys will likely be ready. I'll gamble that Vasy finds his form as well before I'll say the team is finished/window is shut/blow it up blah blah blah. They may miss the playoffs this year, they may not, but one bad half season is far from some reason to think the window is closed.

 

[T REX]

I could care less what some prospect rankings show tbh. As I said, they have a handful of guys who could be of help. I never said they were NHL ready now either, those were your words. In two years, the core will still be solid and some of these guys will likely be ready. I'll gamble that Vasy finds his form as well before I'll say the team is finished/window is shut/blow it up blah blah blah. They may miss the playoffs this year, they may not, but one bad half season is far from some reason to think the window is closed.

You thinking we've only had one bad half season is all I need to know about you. Wow. Yeah...been longer than half a season. Wth. Missing the playoffs is a huge red flag. It's just a flesh wound!

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Very few saying it but Pointer’s gotta point.

Few thoughts/theories on BP21's below average defensive play:

1. They rely on him so much for offense and he conserves energy defensively.
2. It's the regular season & his level of effort/care reflects that.
3. He plays less balls to the wall in his own zone/overall as a result of not wanting to get hurt again.

 

[Powerplay17]

I could care less what some prospect rankings show tbh. As I said, they have a handful of guys who could be of help. I never said they were NHL ready now either, those were your words. In two years, the core will still be solid and some of these guys will likely be ready. I'll gamble that Vasy finds his form as well before I'll say the team is finished/window is shut/blow it up blah blah blah. They may miss the playoffs this year, they may not, but one bad half season is far from some reason to think the window is closed.

Not sure if you’re just an eternal optimist or you perpetually live in 2020.

 

[JTBF81]

You thinking we've only had one bad half season is all I need to know about you. Wow. Yeah...been longer than half a season. Wth. Missing the playoffs is a huge red flag. It's just a flesh wound!

Lol, they had a bad stretch last year, sure. They still turned it around and outplayed the Leafs aside from Vasy having a bad series. Keep up the doom and gloom and laugh emojis, I guess it's your shtick.

Not sure if you’re just an eternal optimist or you perpetually live in 2020.

No, I recognize their poor play this year, but unlike some defeatists on here, I also see plenty of causes for optimism in the next few years if the blueline is addressed and better defensive coaching is provided. I'd bet on Vasy getting back to a quality form as well vs him remaining a middle of the road or worse netminder.

 

[Stammertime91]

I feel like some of us think it comes down to personnel and another portion thinks it comes down to structure/coaching. Some probably think a combination. I believe this roster is just inferior in a lot of ways compared to last year. Our defense is shambolic. One injury and it gets a whole lot worse too. We have zero competent depth. The forward depth is the same situation. Tough to hate on the tweeners because they are playing above their heads, which means a couple aren't even NHL caliber.

The biggest question mark has been the difference maker every run we've gone on and that is Vasy. Is this the norm with some of these goals or is he just not ready, pissed, etc? Like what is going on...

I definitely think it's time to accept what we are seeing and realize the product we see on ice came at the expense of two cups and almost a third.

Our depth chart has more bottom six players than top six players and to be quite honest, more than we'd like to admit are 4th line material. That's problematic.

 

[DFC]

I could care less what some prospect rankings show tbh. As I said, they have a handful of guys who could be of help. I never said they were NHL ready now either, those were your words. In two years, the core will still be solid and some of these guys will likely be ready. I'll gamble that Vasy finds his form as well before I'll say the team is finished/window is shut/blow it up blah blah blah. They may miss the playoffs this year, they may not, but one bad half season is far from some reason to think the window is closed.

Everything is relative. It's hard to measure JBB in a lot of respects, but there is no doubt whatsoever that we havent drafted nearly as well under him.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Everything is relative. It's hard to measure JBB in a lot of respects, but there is no doubt whatsoever that we havent drafted nearly as well under him.

Drafting under Yzerman/Murray wasn't as good as many believe. Connolly, Koekkoek, Blujus, Hart, Erne, Masin, MacLeod, Stephens, Spencer, Hajek, Katchouk, Foote, Volkov, Fortier, Foote are just some of the 1st and 2nd rounders who massively busted/underachieved draft slot. This doesn't even include Drouin (disappointing outside of a couple stretches), DeAngelo (dressing room cancer who they wasted a pick on), Howden (meh).

They hit on Kucherov, Palat, Vasilevskiy, Point, & Cirelli in the draft. Yzerman was a trade god for the most part. Could have had more hits in the draft, which would have likely led to Cups sooner. Koekkoek ahead of Forsberg is comically bad.

 

[Hoek]

I feel like some of us think it comes down to personnel and another portion thinks it comes down to structure/coaching. Some probably think a combination. I believe this roster is just inferior in a lot of ways compared to last year. Our defense is shambolic. One injury and it gets a whole lot worse too. We have zero competent depth. The forward depth is the same situation. Tough to hate on the tweeners because they are playing above their heads, which means a couple aren't even NHL caliber.

The biggest question mark has been the difference maker every run we've gone on and that is Vasy. Is this the norm with some of these goals or is he just not ready, pissed, etc? Like what is going on...

I definitely think it's time to accept what we are seeing and realize the product we see on ice came at the expense of two cups and almost a third.

Our depth chart has more bottom six players than top six players and to be quite honest, more than we'd like to admit are 4th line material. That's problematic.

I think it's a combination. I feel like the coaching doesn't seem to realize how bad the depth really is and is just thinking they can work their way out of it with this new system instead of trying to find a way to make it fit what they can actually do. Either way though we aren't a contender. It's just a matter whether they're willing to compromise with reality and grind for a playoff spot or stick to their flawed concepts for better or worse and let the chips fall where they may and go from there.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I think it's a combination. I feel like the coaching doesn't seem to realize how bad the depth really is and is just thinking they can work their way out of it with this new system instead of trying to find a way to make it fit what they can actually do. Either way though we aren't a contender. It's just a matter whether they're willing to compromise with reality and grind for a playoff spot or stick to their flawed concepts for better or worse and let the chips fall where they may and go from there.

Outside of Kuch and Point, the whole team has to dig deep and grind. Love the fight from Eyssimont lately.

 

[DFC]

Drafting under Yzerman/Murray wasn't as good as many believe. Connolly, Koekkoek, Blujus, Hart, Erne, Masin, MacLeod, Stephens, Spencer, Hajek, Katchouk, Foote, Volkov, Fortier, Foote are just some of the 1st and 2nd rounders who massively busted/underachieved draft slot. This doesn't even include Drouin (disappointing outside of a couple stretches), DeAngelo (dressing room cancer who they wasted a pick on), Howden (meh).

They hit on Kucherov, Palat, Vasilevskiy, Point, & Cirelli in the draft. Yzerman was a trade god for the most part. Could have had more hits in the draft, which would have likely led to Cups sooner. Koekkoek ahead of Forsberg is comically bad.

....those are a lot of hits. And some major ones. Like... there are two, possibly three, Hall of Famers on that list.

Compare that to who we've drafted since.