GDT: 12/21/23 - 7:00PM EDT - Vegas vs Tampa Bay

[OffBy1]

It's honestly not. They can clean up as much as they want. If the Vasy who played the Leafs last year shows up, it doesn't matter. You cant win when your goalie spots the other team one or two every game. No defense can win when shots from safe areas are the ones going in.

The Leafs series was 6 games. That's the worst I've ever seen Vasy play in his career in games that mattered when the rest of the team was playing well (which eliminates the sweeping by the blue jackets cause the whole team was terrible). So you're talking a very small set when you talk about Vasy playing at that low a level.

He's had some bad games this year, he's also played better in some games this year than his best game of that Leaf series. Vasy said afterward his body let him down and he needed to change the way he trained in the offseason. I've never heard feel the need to comment on his poor play like that before. So all that leans toward those 6 games being the outlier to me.

It's more muddled now that he had back surgery before getting to play another game. I've been encouraged with the ceiling he's displayed thus far. I don't think he's peak form Vasy, but I think he's far from Leaf series Vasy. If he can get to a consistent B+ level Vasy and this team can play actual NHL level defense, I think we'd go far. But our defense has much more distance to travel to reach that goal than Vasy from what I've seen thus far. Just watch the two goals Marchessault scored, I don't think he could ask us for more when it comes to scoring chances.

 

[Sky04]

The Leafs series was 6 games. That's the worst I've ever seen Vasy play in his career in games that mattered when the rest of the team was playing well (which eliminates the sweeping by the blue jackets cause the whole team was terrible). So you're talking a very small set when you talk about Vasy playing at that low a level.

He's had some bad games this year, he's also played better in some games this year than his best game of that Leaf series. Vasy said afterward his body let him down and he needed to change the way he trained in the offseason. I've never heard feel the need to comment on his poor play like that before. So all that leans toward those 6 games being the outlier to me.

It's more muddled now that he had back surgery before getting to play another game. I've been encouraged with the ceiling he's displayed thus far. I don't think he's peak form Vasy, but I think he's far from Leaf series Vasy. If he can get to a consistent B+ level Vasy and this team can play actual NHL level defense, I think we'd go far. But our defense has much more distance to travel to reach that goal than Vasy from what I've seen thus far. Just watch the two goals Marchessault scored, I don't think he could ask us for more when it comes to scoring chances.

So what about the 3 straight declining seasons? His GAA has gone up every year and save% down since 2021, The outlier here is his 2022 playoffs which is 20~ games of the last 160. He's been shaky for multiple seasons, part of that is due to the loss of defensive depth (no it's as easy as "fixing the system" if it were we wouldn't have gone out and gotten guys like McDonagh in the first place) Vasy was extremely shaky last regular season, that was very well documented on here but written off because "he'll be fine once we get to the playoffs" lol

Sure he can rebound into elite form but to ignore causes for concern when they're staring at you directly in the face is delusional.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

How’s that not boarding again?

I guess because his eyeball didn't pop out and he got back up before bleeding all over himself... gotta' love NHL refs and Player Safety.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

Fleury has looked so much more confident lately

I agree. He looked really good out there last night. It was nice to see what a little confidence does. He showed more poise and was just much cooler with the puck.

Blashill in contention for throat GOAT over Nance?

Everything Blashill touches dies.

 

[DFC]

The Leafs series was 6 games. That's the worst I've ever seen Vasy play in his career in games that mattered when the rest of the team was playing well (which eliminates the sweeping by the blue jackets cause the whole team was terrible). So you're talking a very small set when you talk about Vasy playing at that low a level.

He's had some bad games this year, he's also played better in some games this year than his best game of that Leaf series. Vasy said afterward his body let him down and he needed to change the way he trained in the offseason. I've never heard feel the need to comment on his poor play like that before. So all that leans toward those 6 games being the outlier to me.

It's more muddled now that he had back surgery before getting to play another game. I've been encouraged with the ceiling he's displayed thus far. I don't think he's peak form Vasy, but I think he's far from Leaf series Vasy. If he can get to a consistent B+ level Vasy and this team can play actual NHL level defense, I think we'd go far. But our defense has much more distance to travel to reach that goal than Vasy from what I've seen thus far. Just watch the two goals Marchessault scored, I don't think he could ask us for more when it comes to scoring chances.

Yeah, but it is still the one big hole in his game that's concerning. I dont think anybody's worried about Vasy's ability to stop Grade A's. But when he looks lost while pucks are coming through even minimal traffic, its concerning.

 

[OffBy1]

So what about the 3 straight declining seasons? His GAA has gone up every year and save% down since 2021, The outlier here is his 2022 playoffs which is 20~ games of the last 160. He's been shaky for multiple seasons, part of that is due to the loss of defensive depth (no it's as easy as "fixing the system" if it were we wouldn't have gone out and gotten guys like McDonagh in the first place) Vasy was extremely shaky last regular season, that was very well documented on here but written off because "he'll be fine once we get to the playoffs" lol

Sure he can rebound into elite form but to ignore causes for concern when they're staring at you directly in the face is delusional.

There's one stat that matters to me with goaltenders and that's save percentage - no one else on the team can make the saves for them. I've thought that as far back as when some flyer fans were telling me Ron Hextall was a great goalie because he had a great GAA but a save percentage below .900. If your goalie has a .910 save %, that's usually middle of the pack, but if your team gives up 40 shots a night, he'll have a 3.6 GAA which would be near the bottom of the pack. GAA is much more a team stat to me, as are wins, etc.

So about the "three" straight declining seasons from 2021 (there's only been two full seasons since then) - the decline as you call it, was from .925 to .916 the following year (11th best that year among goalies who played 40 games) and then down one thousandth of a point to .915 last year (9th best that year). He also "declined" from the first time he got up to .925, going down to .917 the following year before going back up to .925 again - though he only played 42 games that year, which is an abnormally light workload for him. His career save percentage is currently .918, so to characterize the last two years as a player who's in decline at 29 is premature in my opinion. You may end up being right, who knows, but I think you should ease off calling people who aren't on the demise bandwagon with you "delusional", because the stats alone don't make a compelling case when you look at his career performance before he had back surgery.

Yes, I agree he didn't look up to his level last year, but he still finished with the 9th best save % and 4 shutouts - he only had 1 the 2021 year with his best save %. And the meltdown in the playoffs was again, a 6 game outlier.

The biggest cause for concern now in my opinion is how his repaired back will affect his career, rather than him not continuing to have career years the two years since 2021. We'll never know how he would have played this year if the back injury never happened, but it's the likelier culprit in my opinion for sub par performance from him going forward. If he finishes this year where he is now, with a .901 save %, I'll be very concerned. But I'll wait til he has a full nother season after having that surgery to think we are really in trouble.

 

[OffBy1]

Yeah, but it is still the one big hole in his game that's concerning. I dont think anybody's worried about Vasy's ability to stop Grade A's. But when he looks lost while pucks are coming through even minimal traffic, its concerning.

Yeah it's concerning, but as I said above, I'm not expecting him to be in his career regular .918 save % form the year he has back surgery. Maybe it won't affect him at all. But it was major surgery and speaking from experience, something as simple as walking after arthroscopic hip surgery doesn't feel normal until about a year after. He's trying to play a sport at the highest level 2-3 months after. The game or two he's looked great so far, it looks like he's completely unaffected, but only he knows.

 

[DFC]

Yeah it's concerning, but as I said above, I'm not expecting him to be in his career regular .918 save % form the year he has back surgery. Maybe it won't affect him at all. But it was major surgery and speaking from experience, something as simple as walking after arthroscopic hip surgery doesn't feel normal until about a year after. He's trying to play a sport at the highest level 2-3 months after. The game or two he's looked great so far, it looks like he's completely unaffected, but only he knows.

He didnt face many floaters from the point in those games. It's specifically those that are worrisome. There's no real way to protect against it.

It's hard to call the Leafs series an outlier because it looked more like it exposed a weakness that still exists.

 

[OffBy1]

He didnt face many floaters from the point in those games. It's specifically those that are worrisome. There's no real way to protect against it.

It's hard to call the Leafs series an outlier because it looked more like it exposed a weakness that still exists.

I haven't seen many floaters score on him this season - I've seen him give up some long range but those have been fast, not the backbreaking (bad word choice) wrist shots from the point Morgan Reilly scored in the playoffs.

He's had probably 5 games out of the 12 he's played since he's been back where he's played better than he any game in the Toronto series in my opinion - Carolina, 2nd Dallas game, 2nd Pittsburgh game, Edmonton and St Louis. And he's had probably 3-4 stinkers and his save percentage of .901 reflects that inconsistency. But I haven't had the thought that any of the games were the Toronto series all over again, have you? (honestly asking)

 

[Hoek]

He's had some close range stinkers allowed too in his stint back. It's not only the long ones. I say that just as evidence to overall rust versus just one weakness continuing.