Post-Game Talk: 12/21/17 | Canucks 4 @ Sharks 5 in OT

[Horse McHindu]

We get it. The Canucks are bad and it's all Jim Benning's fault. Here are your genius points.

My point in relation to the GDT was there were many fans last year complaining about how boring the Canucks were and how they'd rather lose 5-4, than 2-1. They complained that Miller was holding back Markstrom. Well, Benning clearly listened. But now fans are complaining about defensive structure and goaltending. LOL.

And people wonder why Benning didn't trade Miller at the deadline last year, and why they tried to re-sign him.

Great post. I still can't 'like' posts due to my infractions.

 

[opendoor]

We get it. The Canucks are bad and it's all Jim Benning's fault. Here are your genius points.

My point in relation to the GDT was there were many fans last year complaining about how boring the Canucks were and how they'd rather lose 5-4, than 2-1. They complained that Miller was holding back Markstrom. Well, Benning clearly listened. But now fans are complaining about defensive structure and goaltending. LOL.

Most people would still rather lose 5-4 than 2-1. Marveling at how terrible the Canucks' defensive game is doesn't mean people would prefer to watch the team grind out low scoring losses.

As for goaltending, maybe Benning should've listened to the fans earlier. He might've actually seen Markstrom handle a bigger workload before handing him a $3.7M contract a season after he cleared waivers. But that's not in his nature, he loves buying high and has no patience.

 

[opendoor]

And people wonder why Benning didn't trade Miller at the deadline last year, and why they tried to re-sign him.

Great post. I still can't 'like' posts due to my infractions.

Yeah, the Canucks never allowed a lot of goals with Miller on the team. Here's how they ranked in GA/G in the last 3 years:

15-16: 8th worst
16-17: 6th worst
17-18: 7th worst

So despite having to play behind guys like Pouliot and Del Zotto, Markstrom and Nilsson still have the team in the same spot as Miller and Markstrom did.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Most people would still rather lose 5-4 than 2-1. Marveling at how terrible the Canucks' defensive game is doesn't mean people would prefer to watch the team grind out low scoring losses.

As for goaltending, maybe Benning should've listened to the fans earlier. He might've actually seen Markstrom handle a bigger workload before handing him a $3.7M contract a season after he cleared waivers. But that's not in his nature, he loves buying high and has no patience.

You're over-extending yourself dude. Markstrom isn't great (certainly not better than Miller as fans opined for 3 years) but his contract comparables (+/-.5 mil, non-entry level contracts) are:

Cam Talbot
Scott Darling
Steve Mason
Petr Mrazek
Andrei Vasilevski
James Reimer
Thomas Greiss
Cam Ward

He's still outperforming most of those goalies, behind a lacklustre defensive group. He's not a great goalie, but his contract is fine.

 

[PG Canuck]

Yeah, the Canucks never allowed a lot of goals with Miller on the team. Here's how they ranked in GA/G in the last 3 years:

15-16: 8th worst
16-17: 6th worst
17-18: 7th worst

So despite having to play behind guys like Pouliot and Del Zotto, Markstrom and Nilsson still have the team in the same spot as Miller and Markstrom did.

Can't wait for this post to be conveniently ignored.

 

[Hit the post]

Can't wait for this post to be conveniently ignored.

Ryan Miller is good at deflecting. Almost got him a Vezina.

 

[Melvin]

The goaltending is fine and the canucks are doing exactly what they should have done a couple years ago when they could have traded Miller for assets and evaluated what they had in their younger goalies.

Instead they let Miller walk for nothing and are just now evaluating their younger goalies. Two years later. After heading out some contracts.

Derpy derp.

If Miller were marginally better it would still have been asinine to retain him. I can't believe some of you are serious. What does this team need with a 37 year old goalie for Christ sake.

 

[Scurr]

Sue from Lethbridge just won $1 million on a grumpy cat scratch and win… and some people say lotteries are just another tax on the poor!

 

[Addison Rae]

Can't wait for this post to be conveniently ignored.

Just copy and paste it every time he brings up Miller @opendoor

 

[Addison Rae]

Benning built the team that fans wanted. Now we begin to see the lost value of Desjardins, Sutter, Dorsett, Sbisa, Miller, etc. Too late, unfortunately.

True, not having those players clearly is hurting the tank.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Can't wait for this post to be conveniently ignored.

Perhaps it's ignored because it's a poor, misleading post. But thanks as always for your very much appreciated arbitration of discussions.

Openfloor's post hits all the statistic fallacies, as per usual. Conflating Miller with the team's overall GA, as if Markstrom's play somehow indicates something about Miller. Choosing total GA over GA/G, because the latter shows a more precipitous decline in the team's defensive play. Representing the 3 seasons as if they are equivalent sample sizes, when they are very much not. I could go on, but posts like that aren't worth much more of my time.

 

[StreetHawk]

You're over-extending yourself dude. Markstrom isn't great (certainly not better than Miller as fans opined for 3 years) but his contract comparables (+/-.5 mil, non-entry level contracts) are:

Cam Talbot
Scott Darling
Steve Mason
Petr Mrazek
Andrei Vasilevski
James Reimer
Thomas Greiss
Cam Ward

He's still outperforming most of those goalies, behind a lacklustre defensive group. He's not a great goalie, but his contract is fine.

NHL.starters get a certain amount. Like QBs in the NFL. Mccown, Glennon, etc. Get $15 million. Elite guys get $23 - $27. Just the rate going around.

 

[Addison Rae]

Perhaps it's ignored because it's a poor, misleading post. But thanks as always for your very much appreciated arbitration of discussions.

Openfloor's post hits all the statistic fallacies, as per usual. Conflating Miller with the team's overall GA, as if Markstrom's play somehow indicates something about Miller. Choosing total GA over GA/G, because the latter shows a more precipitous decline in the team's defensive play. Representing the 3 seasons as if they are equivalent sample sizes, when they are very much not. I could go on, but posts like that aren't worth much more of my time.

Wait, what?

 

[racerjoe]

Wait, what?

deflection.

 

[sting101]

Most people would still rather lose 5-4 than 2-1. Marveling at how terrible the Canucks' defensive game is doesn't mean people would prefer to watch the team grind out low scoring losses.

As for goaltending, maybe Benning should've listened to the fans earlier. He might've actually seen Markstrom handle a bigger workload before handing him a $3.7M contract a season after he cleared waivers. But that's not in his nature, he loves buying high and has no patience.

Markstrom played 69games and missed 35due to injury the last 2 seasons. What was he suppose to do? And he cleared waivers in 2014

 

[opendoor]

Markstrom played 69games and missed 35due to injury the last 2 seasons. What was he suppose to do? And he cleared waivers in 2014

He signed his extension at the end of the 15-16 season, after only 1 season as a backup in a Canuck jersey. He cleared waivers the prior season in 14-15.

 

[Black Noise]

Perhaps it's ignored because it's a poor, misleading post. But thanks as always for your very much appreciated arbitration of discussions.

Openfloor's post hits all the statistic fallacies, as per usual. Conflating Miller with the team's overall GA, as if Markstrom's play somehow indicates something about Miller. Choosing total GA over GA/G, because the latter shows a more precipitous decline in the team's defensive play. Representing the 3 seasons as if they are equivalent sample sizes, when they are very much not. I could go on, but posts like that aren't worth much more of my time.

In 2016-17 and 2015-16 Miller either had the same or a worse GAA than Markstrom, so if anything, Markstrom's numbers helped bring the Team GA over the season (the stat he posted) up.

Also they are equal sample size, since each are the whole season aka 82 games. GA/G and GA are the same

 

[FroshaugFan2]

NHL.starters get a certain amount. Like QBs in the NFL. Mccown, Glennon, etc. Get $15 million. Elite guys get $23 - $27. Just the rate going around.

What does that have to do with Markstrom? At his best he was a decent backup before getting his big contract.

 

[Melvin]

In 2016-17 and 2015-16 Miller either had the same or a worse GAA than Markstrom, so if anything, Markstrom's numbers helped bring the Team GA over the season (the stat he posted) up.

Also they are equal sample size, since each are the whole season aka 82 games. GA/G and GA are the same

It's all a red herring.

Replace Markstrom with prime Dominik Hasek and we are still trash. Having a 37 year old Miller on the team would be absolutely useless just as it was last season and the season before.

We needed to find out what we had in Markstrom and that is what we are doing.

And he's fine, by the way. A perfectly cromulent goalie. Whether or not he's better than Ryan Miller, who the f*** cares.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Also they are equal sample size, since each are the whole season aka 82 games. GA/G and GA are the same

Actually, they aren't all the whole season aka 82 games.

 

[opendoor]

Perhaps it's ignored because it's a poor, misleading post. But thanks as always for your very much appreciated arbitration of discussions.

Openfloor's post hits all the statistic fallacies, as per usual. Conflating Miller with the team's overall GA, as if Markstrom's play somehow indicates something about Miller.

Markstrom had a better GAA than Miller in both 15-16 and 16-17. His numbers make Miller look better in this instance.

Choosing total GA over GA/G, because the latter shows a more precipitous decline in the team's defensive play. Representing the 3 seasons as if they are equivalent sample sizes, when they are very much not. I could go on, but posts like that aren't worth much more of my time.

GA/G changes every year depending on how rules are enforced, number of PPs, etc. Ranking is a far more accurate way of determining relative performance in different seasons.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Markstrom had a better GAA than Miller in both 15-16 and 16-17. His numbers make Miller look better in this instance.

Now you're just posting falsehoods? No, Markstrom didn't have a better GAA than Miller in 15-16. Try again.

 

[Black Noise]

Actually, they aren't all the whole season aka 82 games.

How bout this. The Canucks GA over the season:

2016-17 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com - 7th worst in the league
2015-16 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com - 7th worst in the league

Good thing we had Miller right?

 

[racerjoe]

Now you're just posting falsehoods? No, Markstrom didn't have a better GAA than Miller in 15-16. Try again.

Worse by .001 % while playing much tougher comp... but I guess you are right?

2015-16 Vancouver Canucks Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[y2kcanucks]

After 36 games the Canucks are 2 points ahead of where they were last season. They've scored 9 more goals this season, but given up 8 more.