Post-Game Talk: 12/17/17 | Flames 6 @ Canucks 1 | All the killer bees now out

[Nomobo]

Mmmm... Bonose Bolognese

I'm usually a meat and potatoes guy but trying to be more avant garde.

One day I may even get into analytics.

 

[me2]

If Dorsetts career hadn't ended,and for all the injuries...I'm sure that Guance would be in Utica as we speak.

Sure, it's the regular season, Dorsett shows up for that (sometimes).

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

I'm usually a meat and potatoes guy but trying to be more avant garde.

One day I may even get into analytics.

You disappoint me my friend.

 

[RobertKron]

Did Gaunce make the opening night roster on merit.?.From what I recall,he was injured pre season,sent to Utica,and was called up through an injury..If I'm wrong,I'll stand corrected.....He looks like the same player he was last year..Jack of all trades,master of none.

When Justin Schultz was acquired by the Pens,that was pretty much the end of the line for Pouliot (plus he was not a favourite of Mike Sullivan)...A change of scenery has been known to make a difference for some players,believe it or not.

You're wrong.

He was sent to Utica on a conditioning stint after recovering from shoulder surgery he had in April.

From the tone of this article, it also sounds like you're wrong about him being some kind of injury relief callup, given they'd have to sit someone to get him in the lineup:

It will be interesting to see how the Canucks insert Gaunce into their lineup going forward, but the most logical spot would be the fourth line centre spot between Sam Gagner and Thomas Vanek.
They won’t be breaking up the Sven Baertschi, Bo Horvat and Brock Boeser line anytime soon, and the same argument can be made about the shutdown line of Derek Dorsett, Brandon Sutter, and Markus Granlund. Gaunce wouldn’t be a good fit with the Sedin’s, so that makes the fourth line the logical option. Alexander Burmistrov hasn’t been bad, but he is the logical one to come out of the lineup if Canucks head coach Travis Green chooses to make a lineup change.

Canucks recall Brendan Gaunce from Conditioning Stint with Utica

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Sorry how’s it any different? Gaunce made the Canucks last year and this year. Pouliot made it this year. Yet you “suspect” Gaunce would be in the AHL if not for injuries. Do you have any evidence of that or is your hunch supposed to be a compelling close to this discussion?

As for Pouliot, he couldn’t crack the Penguins line up last year for more than a handful of games (11) even when they suffered significant injuries to their defense, including half a season to Letang and a third of a season to Trevor Daley and Olli Maata. SCF or not that’s as much an opportunity as any player is going to get and he didn’t even get as many games as the horrendous Brendan Gaunce.

But hey, we don’t need to argue. At the end of the day we can agree that if the Canucks “like” Pouliot as evidenced by the fact they play him then it’s also the case that they like Gaunce as evidenced by the fact that they play him.

Your right...Clearly there's no point in debating Pouliot with you..Even before he played for the Canucks,you said he was 'a waste of a 4th' or something to that effect..So you're pretty much forever 'entrenched' in that opinion..You and Dim can hold hands on this one.

 

[CanaFan]

Did Gaunce make the opening night roster on merit.?.From what I recall,he was injured pre season,sent to Utica,and was called up through an injury..If I'm wrong,I'll stand corrected.....He looks like the same player he was last year..Jack of all trades,master of none.

When Justin Schultz was acquired by the Pens,that was pretty much the end of the line for Pouliot (plus he was not a favourite of Mike Sullivan)...A change of scenery has been known to make a difference for some players,believe it or not.

Don’t think he got called up for Dorsett, their games played overlap. Gaunce has played 18 and Dorsett played 20. Canucks are at Game 34.

As for being sent to Utica, that’s not unusual for a player who missed camp and start of the season due to injury. Same happened to Horvat in 2014-15.

As for Pouliot, I don’t see why Schultz would have blocked Pouliot. Pittsburgh isn’t above having multiple puck moving D in the line up at once. And with Letang missing 41 games, Daley 26, Maata 27, and Dumoulin 12 there is no reason that Pouliot shouldn’t have played more than 11 games. Well other than he didn’t play well enough in their eyes.

Strange that you’re so willing to excuse Pouliot not making the Pens even when they were struck by numerous injuries but are holding it against Gaunce, even though he’d already made the team the previous year.

 

[CanaFan]

Your right...Clearly there's no point in debating Pouliot with you..Even before he played for the Canucks,you said he was 'a waste of a 4th' or something to that effect..So you're pretty much forever 'entrenched' in that opinion..You and Dim can hold hands on this one.

Well he has hardly shown me to be wrong. The guy is a barely passable 7th D which to me is a waste of a 4th and a passable AHL defender.

But I see you are equally entrenched in your pro-Pouliot views based on refusing to acknowledge how bad it was that he couldn’t make an injury-depleted Pens D last year.

I’m as happy to avoid wasting my time here as you are. Simply wanted to point out the fallacy of your comment about the Canucks apparently liking him. Nothing more.

 

[RobertKron]

Don’t think he got called up for Dorsett, their games played overlap. Gaunce has played 18 and Dorsett played 20. Canucks are at Game 34.

As for being sent to Utica, that’s not unusual for a player who missed camp and start of the season due to injury. Same happened to Horvat in 2014-15.

As for Pouliot, I don’t see why Schultz would have blocked Pouliot. Pittsburgh isn’t above having multiple puck moving D in the line up at once. And with Letang missing 41 games, Daley 26, Maata 27, and Dumoulin 12 there is no reason that Pouliot shouldn’t have played more than 11 games. Well other than he didn’t play well enough in their eyes.

Strange that you’re so willing to excuse Pouliot not making the Pens even when they were struck by numerous injuries but are holding it against Gaunce, even though he’d already made the team the previous year.

He went on a conditioning stint. He'd have to go through waivers if it were a normal reassignment. They're flat wrong about all of that.

 

[CanaFan]

He went on a conditioning stint. He'd have to go through waivers if it were a normal reassignment. They're flat wrong about all of that.

I’m soooooo surprised.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Well he has hardly shown me to be wrong. The guy is a barely passable 7th D which to me is a waste of a 4th and a passable AHL defender.

But I see you are equally entrenched in your pro-Pouliot views based on refusing to acknowledge how bad it was that he couldn’t make an injury-depleted Pens D last year.

I’m as happy to avoid wasting my time here as you are. Simply wanted to point out the fallacy of your comment about the Canucks apparently liking him. Nothing more.

I don't have and pro/con bias on any player on the Canucks...but I'm more than willing to give players a chance to prove themselves...sometimes I'm right,sometimes I'm wrong...If Gaunce was really good,I'd be more than a fan..but he isn't..I could care less if Gillis,or Burke or whomever drafted him....Some of the bias towards Benning acquisitions on these boards is veering to absurdity.

If you think Pouliot sucks,and a waste of a 4th..thats your view..thats ok!...I see a really gifted player that is trying to get his confidence back..with a coach he had had success with....To each their own.

 

[CanaFan]

I don't have and pro/con bias on any player on the Canucks...but I'm more than willing to give players a chance to prove themselves...sometimes I'm right,sometimes I'm wrong...If Gaunce was really good,I'd be more than a fan..but he isn't..I could care less if Gillis,or Burke or whomever drafted him....Some of the bias towards Benning acquisitions on these boards is veering to absurdity.

If you think Pouliot sucks,and a waste of a 4th..thats your view..thats ok!...I see a really gifted player that is trying to get his confidence back..with a coach he had had success with....To each their own.

And while I disagree I don’t really have any issue with you saying that. What I did object to was your notion that he was playing well because the Canucks were playing him while simultaneously not applying the same argument to Gaunce who I know you dislike.

At the end of the day I don’t believe one can use the fact that a team plays a player as a conclusive argument that said player is playing well. Lots of players play poorly (relative) and yet remain in the line up for all sorts of reasons. I wouldn’t use that to argue Gaunce is playing well and I wouldn’t accept it as an argument that Pouliot is playing well. The argument has to extend beyond that.

 

[MS]

If Dorsetts career hadn't ended,and for all the injuries...I'm sure that Guance would be in Utica as we speak.

Gaunce has been a roster regular here since March of 2016, and was playing regularly here when Dorsett was still healthy.

He's quite clearly ahead of at least 5 forwards currently on our NHL roster, is Green's most trusted defensive forward right now with Sutter out, and has even led the team's forwards in TOI recently.

But yeah, he'd be in Utica. Where on earth do you guys come up with this rubbish?

 

[Horse McHindu]

All the reports suggested that

So removing bias

[/QUOTE]

Where are "all these reports" that show/imply that Benning went against the advice of his scouts (drafting Ehlers)?

Were "all these reports" produced by JD Burke and the Canucks Army? (a.k.a. BC Ferries Employees by day, keyboard warriors at night!)

 

[RandV]

Where are "all these reports" that show/imply that Benning went against the advice of his scouts (drafting Ehlers)?

Were "all these reports" produced by JD Burke and the Canucks Army? (a.k.a. BC Ferries Employees by day, keyboard warriors at night!)[/QUOTE]

Oh please this is nonsense. I'll give you a bit on the semantics as "reports" may be too strong a word, rumours or draft chatter would be a more accurate term. But this is a discussion board and these things happened years ago. At every draft there's an endless amount of rumours & speculation, like for example since it's fresh last draft there was a lot of both the Canucks trying to move up in the draft and when that failed that they had a deal to drop from 5 to 6 with Vegas for a 2nd as they wanted to make sure they got Glass, but decided to cancel the deal at the last second.

These are things that just happened, so they're fresh in memory. But there's a whole lot of bigger things going down on draft day, so you're probably not going to find any conclusive "reports" from established outlets providing concrete evidence that eventually happened. And what little there is no one's going to be keeping a folder of links nicely tucked away incase 4+ years later to conveniently whip out when someone being dense on a message board.

This is just a message board, often at times all you have to go on is vague rumours and use some logic or filtering to figure out which ones to take seriously. Like the fact that Benning did indeed draft Virtanen. Or that he's shown a preference for toolsy 'skate fast shoot hard' players (see: Brandon Sutter). Or that a lot of people had been sore, the owner likely included, in how we often pass over good local kids like Milan Lucic (and this happens everywhere). Or a little more vague but that Gillis lead his drafts by focusing on hockey IQ, and from 2009-2013 we most ignored our Western scouts, the key point here being this was Ron Delorme's area, taking exactly two WHL/BCHL player. In the 5 year span pre-Gillis (and including the overlap year) 2004-2008 we took 9.