10 Swedish players in the top 50 in scoring this season. Has Sweden separated themselves from the other European countries in terms of best on best?

[MrOT]

10 Swedish players in the top 50 in scoring this season.

For reference:
Russia had 3
Finland 3
Czech 1
Germany 1

Are Sweden in a tier in between USA/Canada and the rest of Europe in terms of best on best talent?
Like:

Canada
USA

Sweden

Russia
Finland

Czech
Germany
Swizerland
Slovakia

Click to read more...

 

[NyQuil]

2023-2024 NHL nationalities breakdown (Quant Hockey):

# of players:

1. Canada - 434
2. United States - 288
3. Sweden - 101
4. Russia - 66
5. Finland - 48
6. Czech Republic - 32
7. Slovakia - 11
8. Switzerland - 10
9. Germany - 8

NHL Totals by Nationality ‑ 2023‑2024 Stats

NHL Totals by Nationality - 2023-2024 Regular Season Stats

www.quanthockey.com

 

[Regal]

So many factors can play into single season production. I don’t think this is indicative of Russia’s talent. Nichushkin was nearly PPG but missed time. Buchnevich didn’t have his best year. Svechnikov also missed time but likely would have been there otherwise. Tarasenko is still quite good getting lesser minutes. I would take all of them over say Nyquist who had a bit of an outlier year at 35. Also, I think their top 3 players might all be better than anyone on Sweden. They also have lots of goaltending talent even if Vasi and Sorokin didn’t have good years.

I think the top end talent for Russia and Finland both compete with Sweden, but Sweden has more depth at this point and a more balanced lineup in a best on best (Russia has no centres and weaker D, while Finland has weak D after Heiskanen).

 

[MrOT]

2023-2024 NHL nationalities breakdown (Quant Hockey):

# of players:

1. Canada - 434
2. United States - 288
3. Sweden - 101
4. Russia - 66
5. Finland - 48
6. Czech Republic - 32
7. Slovakia - 11
8. Switzerland - 10
9. Germany - 8

NHL Totals by Nationality ‑ 2023‑2024 Stats

NHL Totals by Nationality - 2023-2024 Regular Season Stats

www.quanthockey.com

So you mean that it says itself when looking at the number of players?

 

[dalewood12]

I think they have a much better shot at winning the 4 Nations Face-Off and 2026 Olympics than many would admit.

 

[NyQuil]

So you mean that it says itself when looking at the number of players?

I just posted it for interest's sake.

 

[Kshahdoo]

10 Swedish players in the top 50 in scoring this season.

For reference:
Russia had 3
Finland 3
Czech 1
Germany 1

Are Sweden in a tier in between USA/Canada and the rest of Europe in terms of best on best talent?
Like:

Canada
USA

Sweden

Russia
Finland

Czech
Germany
Swizerland
Slovakia

There are 3 Russians in top10 by PPG, there is no any Swedes...

 

[johan f]

There are 3 Russians in top10 by PPG, there is no any Swedes...

That was not the topic.

 

[ViD]

Russia is much better top talent wise but Sweden has way more players in the NHL

 

[Ben White]

Russia is much better top talent wise but Sweden has way more players in the NHL

”Much” better is a stretch. There is Kucherov standing on his own. Then there is a cluster of Panarin, Pettersson, Nylander, Kaprizov, Malkin and Hedman as established/aging stars. Then there is Dahlin as an upcoming superstar and Ovie is pretty much done. Forsberg and Bratt are also much closer to star status than any other Russian not mentioned. I don’t see the argument outside of Kucherov.

 

[forever1922]

I think the future is even more promising for the top end swedish talent. Sweden I can instantly think of multiple potential guys, headlined by Frondell, Carlsson.

Who does Finland even have that could become a top50 scorer? Kemell, Lambert? I think not.

Russia at least has a case for probably producing young, high scoring talent, can they challenge swedes?

The rest, yeah Slovaks and Czechia are rising but obviously aren't challenging any of the nations ahead.

 

[BKarchitect]

”Much” better is a stretch. There is Kucherov standing on his own. Then there is a cluster of Panarin, Pettersson, Nylander, Kaprizov, Malkin and Hedman as established/aging stars. Then there is Dahlin as an upcoming superstar and Ovie is pretty much done. Forsberg and Bratt are also much closer to star status than any other Russian not mentioned. I don’t see the argument outside of Kucherov.

I don’t think Nichushkin is far off from the Forsberg/Bratt brakcet, at least from Bratt. I put FF9 much more in the Nylander tier with how he has to lead his team year after year.

Nuke is nearly their equal in PTS/G while being a much bigger physical and forechecking force and playoff menace. He's a bona fide star IMO, the route was just unconventional. Same with Buchnevich last year although he was down a bit this season. Svechnikov remains a bit of an enigma but definitely has the talent to be in that bracket.

Granted, for the Swedes you had Landeskog coming off a 95 point pace season and captaining his team to the Cup before having his career suddenly derailed so some bad luck there. And Ziba can look as good as anybody in the non-Kuch cluster for stretches (but then disappear for half a season).

Russian defenders there is certainly a dearth but I think the new generation is about to change that…Nikishin, Simashev, Gulyayev, Silayev - there are potentially some big talents on the way. Both countries have elite forwards on the way…Carlsson, Frondell, Bjorck…Michkov, Demidov, Ryabkin. To early to predict but I don’t see an advantage of one of the other yet.

If you extend “top talent” to goaltenders - the Russians are absolutely bonkers there.

 

[Acetylene]

This is like a reversed Eye of Ra thread.

 

[Shocker]

This is like a reversed Eye of Ra thread.

"Is Sweden worse than Madagascar in hockey nowadays?" - Eye of Ra

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I always considered Sweden and Russia in the same group as Canada and US. Finland is sort of in a group on their own. They're better than the rest, but not quite as deep as the top group, but they're battler and can compete with the top group.

That probably makes no sense, so yes, Sweden is in a group with Russia, ahead of the rest.

 

[LivingRentFree]

Nylander puts Sweden ahead of the other European countries.

 

[M2Beezy]

Nylander puts Sweden ahead of the other European countries.

Well this isnt junior hockey

 

[yeaher]

”Much” better is a stretch. There is Kucherov standing on his own. Then there is a cluster of Panarin, Pettersson, Nylander, Kaprizov, Malkin and Hedman as established/aging stars. Then there is Dahlin as an upcoming superstar and Ovie is pretty much done. Forsberg and Bratt are also much closer to star status than any other Russian not mentioned. I don’t see the argument outside of Kucherov.

I'd take Nuke over Forsberg and Brett. Far more effective player. Been playing like a star since 2022 SCF.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's probably 15-30 guys in the KHL who are NHL calibre but are playing in Russia.

The absolute cream comes over, but third liner Russians stay. Is this true for Swedes too?

 

[WarriorofTime]

There's probably 15-30 guys in the KHL who are NHL calibre but are playing in Russia.

The absolute cream comes over, but third liner Russians stay. Is this true for Swedes too?

Not really because the SHL doesn't pay as well as the KHL. The second best paying place in Europe is likely the NLA for imports, but there are limited spots. The other consideration is the Transfer Agreement, since there is no Transfer Agreement between KHL-NHL, Russian guys will tend to stay in Russia longer and come when the contract timing lines up which keeps the numbers a bit lower than if more young guys came over earlier. Random example is Dmitry Voronkov most recent season, 23 years old and was in his first North America season.

With a transfer agreement, a Swedish player can be under contract with an SHL team, exercise what essentially is an out in their contract to sign an NHL ELC and the Swedish team is compensated per the transfer agreement. Then the Swedish player can come into an NHL training camp, and if the NHL team doesn't think they are necessarily ready yet, they can loan them back to the SHL, so it's much more fluid/come when you're ready kind of system. In Russia, you are under contract until you are under contract and then you extend and stay there longer (and if old enough, essentially forever) or sign with the NHL team and give it a go.

I think Swedish and Russian talent is fairly comparable, but from a team building standpoint, Russia struggles a bit because you don't need 6 Goaltenders, you need 1 Goaltender. If they could move Vasilevskiy to Center for instance, that would help a lot compared to being a former Conn Smythe winning Third Goaltender.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Sweden to me makes a better team than any of Europe. Russia is close due to goaltending.

My ranking

1. Sweden
2. Russia
3. Finland
4. Czech
5. Switzerland
6. Germany
7. Slovakia
8. Denmark
9. Latvia
10. Norway

With a gap between Russia and Finland + a gap between Czechia/Germany + a gap between Denmark and Latvia.

Sweden
Filip Forsberg - Elias Pettersson - William Nylander
Jesper Bratt - Mika Zibanejad - Adrian Kempe
Gustav Nyquist - Joel Eriksson EK - Lucas Raymond
William Karlsson - Mikael Backlund - Elias Lindholm
Extras: William Eklund, Calle Jarnkrok, Rickard Rakell

Victor Hedman - Erik Karlsson
Rasmus Dahlin - Hampus Lindholm
Gustav Forsling - Ramses Andersson
Matthias Ekholm/Jonas Brodin

Linus Ullmark
Jacob Markstrom
Filip Gustavsson

Russia

Artemi Panarin - Evgeni Malkin - Nikita Kucherov
Kirill Kaprizov - Ivan Barbashev - Andrei Svechnikov
Alex Ovechkin - Evgeni Kuznetsov - Valeri Nichushkin
Pavel Buchnevich - Vladislav Namestnikov - Vladimir Tarasenko
Extras: Kirill Marchenko, Andrei Kuzmenko, Dmitry Voronkov

Mikael Sergachev - Ivan Provorov
Dmitri Orlov - Nikita Zadorov
Pavel Mintyukov - Vladislav Gavrikov
Alexander Nikishin/Artem Zub

Igor Shesterkin
Andrei Vasilevksiy
Ilya Sorokin

Finland

Sebastien Aho - Aleksander Barkov - Mikko Rantanen
Arturri Lehkonen - Roope Hintz - Mattias Maccelli
Teuvo Teravainen - Mikael Granlund - Eeli Tolvanen
Erik Haula - Anton Lundell - Eetu Luostarinen
Extras: Jesperi Kotkaneimi, Kasperi Kapanen, Jerry Turkulainen

Esa Lindell - Miro Heiskanen
Just Valimaki - Jane Hakanpaa
Olli Maatta - Nikko Mikkola
Henri Jokiharju/Rasmus Ristolainen

Juuse Saros
Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen
Jonas Korpisalo

Czech Republic

Odrej Palat - Pavel Zacha - David Pastrnak
Dominik Kubalik - Tomas Hertl - Martin Necas
Roman Cervenka - Filip Chytil - Filip Zadina
Radek Faksa - David Kampf - Tomas Nosek
Extras - Jakub Vrana, Ondrej Kase, Jakub Lauko

Radko Gudas - Filip Hronek
Michael Kempny - David Jiricek
John Ludvig - Jan Rutta
Filip Kral/Jakub Zboril

Karel Vejmelka
Petr Mrazek
Lukas Dostal

Switzerland
Kevin Fiala - Nico Hischier - Timo Meier
Philip Kurashev - Pius Suter - Nino Niederreiter
Sven Andrighetto - Denis Malgin - Calvin Thurkauf
Fabrice Herzog - Gaetan Haas - Damien Riat
Extras: Ken Jager, Cristoph Bertschy, Valentin Nussbaumer

Roman Josi - Jonas Siegenthaler
JJ Moser - Dean Kukan
Tim Berni - Romain Loeffel
Andrea Glauser/Lian Bichsel

Akira Schmidt
Reto Berra
Sandro Aeschlimann

Germany
Tim Stutzle - Leon Draisaitl - John-Jason Peterka
Dominik Kahun - Nico Sturm - Lukas Reichel
Dominik Bokk- Marcel Noebels - Yasim Ehliz
Marc Michaelis - Nikita Alexandrov - Tom Kuhnhackl
Extras: Justin Schutz, Frederik Tiffels, Maximilian Kammerrer

Maksymillian Szuber- Moritz Seider
Mirco Mueller - Leon Huettl
Colin Ugbekile - Jonas Mueller
Jan Luca Semhenn/Marcus Weber

Phillip Grubauer
Mathias Niederberger
Florian Bugl

Slovakia
Juraj Slafkovsky - Marek Hrivik - Tomas Tatar
Pavel Regenda - Martin Popisil - Martin Popisil
Oliver Okuliar - Adam Ruzicka - Adam Liska
Marko Dano - Libor Hudacek - Milos Kelleman
Extras: Dalibor Dvorsky, Richard Panik, Marian Studenic

Erik Cernak - Simon Nemec
Martin Fehervary - Peter Ceresnak
Martin Marincin - Mario Grman
Patrik Koch/Martin Gernat

Matej Tomek
Samuel Hlavaj
Adam Gajan

Denmark
Notable Forwards - Oliver Bjorkstrand, Nikolaj Ehlers, Lars Eller, Alexander True, Jonas Rondbjerg, Oskar Fisker Molgaard, Mikkael Aagaard
Notable Defenseman - Oliver Larsen, Oliver Lauridsen, Kasper Larsen
Notable Goalies - Frederik Andersen, Mads Sogaard,

Latvia
Notable Forwards: Teddy Blueger Zemgus Girgensons, Rudolfs Balcers, Rodrigo Abols, Eduards Tralmaks, Martins Dzierkals
Notabl Defenseman- Uvis Balinskis, Kristian Rubins
Notable Defenseman - Elvis Merzlikins , Arturs Silovs

Norway:
Notable Forwards: Mats Zuccarello, Michael Brandsegg-Nygaard, Mattias Emelio Pettersson, Peter Vesterheim
Notable Defence: Sain Stolberg, Emil Lilleberg, Jonas Johansesson

 

[Garl]

There's probably 15-30 guys in the KHL who are NHL calibre but are playing in Russia.

The absolute cream comes over, but third liner Russians stay. Is this true for Swedes too?

Thats a total myth, there not many if any NHL level russians in KHL

I'd take Nuke over Forsberg and Brett. Far more effective player. Been playing like a star since 2022 SCF.

Lol, no

 

[yeaher]

Thats a total myth, there not many if any NHL level russians in KHL


Lol, no

Val is a far more dominant player than either.

 

[tiburon12]

Over the last 5 years, sweden has 7 players in the top 51 for points (51 because #50 and #51 are tied and both Swedish players, incidentally).

Mika Zibanejad (15)
William Nylander (17)
Elias Pettersson (24)
Victor Hedman (39)
Filip Forsberg (45)
Jesper Bratt (50)
Elias Lindholm (51)

Canada and the US both have 15 skaters each in the top 51, Russia 6, Finland 3, Swiss 2, Czechia 1, Germany 1, Slovenia 1.

Now pure points isn't everything, but this is a good look.

I'd say that when you factor in that the highest end Russian talent is higher than the highest end Swedish, AND add goalies, Russia at the very least makes the OP's claim invalid.

 

[Garl]

I don’t think Nichushkin is far off from the Forsberg/Bratt brakcet, at least from Bratt. I put FF9 much more in the Nylander tier with how he has to lead his team year after year.

Nuke is nearly their equal in PTS/G while being a much bigger physical and forechecking force and playoff menace. He's a bona fide star IMO, the route was just unconventional. Same with Buchnevich last year although he was down a bit this season. Svechnikov remains a bit of an enigma but definitely has the talent to be in that bracket.

Granted, for the Swedes you had Landeskog coming off a 95 point pace season and captaining his team to the Cup before having his career suddenly derailed so some bad luck there. And Ziba can look as good as anybody in the non-Kuch cluster for stretches (but then disappear for half a season).

Russian defenders there is certainly a dearth but I think the new generation is about to change that…Nikishin, Simashev, Gulyayev, Silayev - there are potentially some big talents on the way. Both countries have elite forwards on the way…Carlsson, Frondell, Bjorck…Michkov, Demidov, Ryabkin. To early to predict but I don’t see an advantage of one of the other yet.

If you extend “top talent” to goaltenders - the Russians are absolutely bonkers there.

Sweden is clearly number one in Europe, homage to Russia is inertial because oh history. Sweden produces more players of high level plain and simple