Player Discussion #10 Jonathan Huberdeau

[super6646]

The guy plays with Milan Lucic, the f*** do people expect. And Kadri and him don't mesh at all IMO. He needs to playing with proper triggermen like Toffoli, Lindholm or Mangiapane.

Do what works, he played with two speed transition guys in Florida, give him Zary (C) and Pelletier and let him do what he does (will literally never happen unless one of us coached the Flames).

And I don't know if it makes that big of a difference but he is also playing RW and Lucic is playing left. Like come on, you're setting your most prized player up for complete failure.

My biggest gripe with him is he is Tanguay 2.0, he will not shoot even if in a prime shooting location. You play with Lucic, shoot the puck man.

Tofolli, lindholm are two guys he played with before… that line sucked.

Imo they need him to be with Kadri. And if not Kadri than huberdeau-lindholm-x

 

[Body Checker]

He's been playing better; Kadri too. Says alot with a 4th liner on their line regularly. At this point I would leave the Lindholm and Backlund lines alone. So maybe next up to try on right side is Duehr or Pelletier.

 

[Some Other Flame]

It's been said a lot that his success in Florida come along side Bennett and Duclair, two speedy forwards that attacked the net. The equivalent in Calgary would be Dube and Pelletier or maybe Coronato. Now that would obviously never happen in Calgary under Sutter because he's a coward and has too much of an ego to ever try it out but imagine the possibilities if the Flames weren't so closed minded

 

[Deen]

It's been said a lot that his success in Florida come along side Bennett and Duclair, two speedy forwards that attacked the net. The equivalent in Calgary would be Dube and Pelletier or maybe Coronato. Now that would obviously never happen in Calgary under Sutter because he's a coward and has too much of an ego to ever try it out but imagine the possibilities if the Flames weren't so closed minded

I highly doubt Coronato is going to be here. He is up for the Hobey Baker award and can basically call his shot like Fox did.

 

[Felidae]

The guy plays with Milan Lucic, the f*** do people expect. And Kadri and him don't mesh at all IMO. He needs to playing with proper triggermen like Toffoli, Lindholm or Mangiapane.

The Toffoli -Lindholm -Huberdeau line was just as unproductive. Not sure I'd want to bring them back together.

Do what works, he played with two speed transition guys in Florida, give him Zary (C) and Pelletier and let him do what he does (will literally never happen unless one of us coached the Flames).

Kadri, at least last year, was actually good in transition. He was ranked 15th in the NHL's most dangerous rush forwards and 9th in controlled zone entries. Above the majority of Huberdeau's teammates in Florida.

The NHL’s most dynamic forwards: Ranking the best (and worst) forwards at zone entries and rush offense

Which forwards are the most dominant at transporting the puck?

theathletic.com

Honestly think Lucic is part of the problem. More often than not, offense seems to die when he touches the puck.

And I don't know if it makes that big of a difference but he is also playing RW and Lucic is playing left. Like come on, you're setting your most prized player up for complete failure.

Can't argue with that, I also noticed he had no overtime minutes last night. I don't mind that as much since he hasn't done much in his OT showings in Calgary. But he and Barkov were dynamite in OT last season.

My biggest gripe with him is he is Tanguay 2.0, he will not shoot even if in a prime shooting location. You play with Lucic, shoot the puck man.

I don't see this one changing anytime soon. He's very much like Thornton, Oates, H.Sedin and Backstrom in that his one elite offensive trait is playmaking. He also offers much less outside of that than the aforementioned players.

Ultimately, I do think Huberdeau's lack of production can be explained to not adapting well to his linemates and Sutter's system (which is drastically different than his last 4 years in Florida.)

I think it's just as much an indictment to his limitations as a player as it is Sutter's system.

Of course, maybe Huberdeau learns to produce in Sutter's system. One can only hope.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I really liked Huberdeau yesterday. Lucic was abysmal last night though. Put Pelletier on that line and I think this team might actually take off a bit.

 

[HighLifeMan]

The fact that he has only spent 13 minutes of icetime with Dube is incredible, or that he's been stapled to this team's two slowest skaters all year (Lucic/Toffoli) speaks volumes to the coaching staffs inability to assess and integrate his strengths into the lineup.

We are nearly at the 60% mark of the season and his most common winger after next game will be Milan Lucic. That is an absolute injustice.

 

[Kranix]

Meh. Huberdeau seems to succeed with a banger on his line. Not saying Lucic is the right guy, as his skills have steeply declined. The fact of the matter is, Huberdeau is not shooting enough, and Darryl isn't running a top line this year, managing Huberdeau's minutes for some reason. It could still get better. There's an adjustment period. I still have hope because of how well Johnny/Tkachuk/Lindholm did under Darryl.

 

[super6646]

The fact that he has only spent 13 minutes of icetime with Dube is incredible, or that he's been stapled to this team's two slowest skaters all year (Lucic/Toffoli) speaks volumes to the coaching staffs inability to assess and integrate his strengths into the lineup.

We are nearly at the 60% mark of the season and his most common winger after next game will be Milan Lucic. That is an absolute injustice.

This team manages its assets like trash. Love that this team decided to put Gaudreau in a position to succeed RIGHT BEFORE his contract was due while setting Huberdeau up to fail after getting his massive payday.

The good news is Huberdeau will get a lot of time acquainting with him:

 

[Kranix]

This team manages its assets like trash. Love that this team decided to put Gaudreau in a position to succeed RIGHT BEFORE his contract was due while setting Huberdeau up to fail after getting his massive payday.

The good news is Huberdeau will get a lot of time acquainting with him:

Yes, that was the conscious decision. "Let's try to get Johnny to inflate his stats in his contract year."

 

[super6646]

Yes, that was the conscious decision. "Let's try to get Johnny to inflate his stats in his contract year."

The team went through a 2 year phase of playing Gaudreau with a monahan crippled by injuries for reasons that depreciated his value to the team and league wideV(and also just hurt the team in general). Many people thought his value didn’t even equate with konencny at one point because of this.

It wasn’t intentional, but that’s absolutely what the team ended up doing. His numbers got pumped playing with 2 of the best line mates of his career at precisely the worst time for the team. While Gaudreau ended up leveraging that to go elsewhere, the point remains the team grossly mishandled him just as they are with huberdeau rn.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Huberdeau with/ without Lucic

CF% - 52.57 / 55.99 (-3.42%)
SF% - 51.32 / 55.39 (-4.07%)
GF% - 55 / 65 (-10%)
xGF% - 48.22 / 57.45 (-9.23%)
SCF% - 50.0 / 54.58 (-4.58%)
HDCF% - 42.62% / 57.94% (-15.32%)

This "experiment" is now approaching 20 games.. which is roughly the same time Ruzicka got in the top nine before being demoted when he was analytically our best player and had 17 points in 19 games. The coach is knowingly making our lineup worse on a game to game basis.

If the coach can't trust Lucic to play his role (8-11 minutes a night on the 4th line) in an effective manner, then he should not be in the lineup at all.

 

[Kranix]

It wasn’t intentional, but that’s absolutely what the team ended up doing. His numbers got pumped playing with 2 of the best line mates of his career at precisely the worst time for the team.

You're retroactively labeling it bad asset management that player development, lineup adjustments, strategy evolution over several seasons, culminated in two homegrown superstars finally peaking in a contract year, and personal/familial decisions totally out of team control caused them to leave. It's just fluff.

 

[super6646]

You're retroactively labeling it bad asset management that player development, lineup adjustments, strategy evolution over several seasons, culminated in two homegrown superstars finally peaking in a contract year, and personal/familial decisions totally out of team control caused them to leave. It's just fluff.

The context of them leaving was out of the team control, that I agree with.

But there were 2 other seasons in which the team grossly mismanaged them, especially Gaudreuau. There is no other way of putting it, they trotted out Gaudreau-Monahan despite all the evidence saying that line had gone stale and it came to the detriment of team success and individual success.

Huberdeau with/ without Lucic

CF% - 52.57 / 55.99 (-3.42%)
SF% - 51.32 / 55.39 (-4.07%)
GF% - 55 / 65 (-10%)
xGF% - 48.22 / 57.45 (-9.23%)
SCF% - 50.0 / 54.58 (-4.58%)
HDCF% - 42.62% / 57.94% (-15.32%)

This "experiment" is now approaching 20 games.. which is roughly the same time Ruzicka got in the top nine before being demoted when he was analytically our best player and had 17 points in 19 games. The coach is knowingly making our lineup worse on a game to game basis.

If the coach can't trust Lucic to play his role (8-11 minutes a night on the 4th line) in an effective manner, then he should not be in the lineup at all.

There is some 4D chess going on... the "process" works because the 4th line is benefiting... uhhh hart and sole.

 

[Sparky93]

The team went through a 2 year phase of playing Gaudreau with a monahan crippled by injuries for reasons that depreciated his value to the team and league wideV(and also just hurt the team in general). Many people thought his value didn’t even equate with konencny at one point because of this.

It wasn’t intentional, but that’s absolutely what the team ended up doing. His numbers got pumped playing with 2 of the best line mates of his career at precisely the worst time for the team. While Gaudreau ended up leveraging that to go elsewhere, the point remains the team grossly mishandled him just as they are with huberdeau rn.

You make it sound like he didn't also play with Lindholm every year, with the exception of '21. One line teams usually aren't very successful. With the exception of Lucic, I have no problem with the lines we're icing. People talk about our prospects like they have instant game breaking abilities but in reality their skillsets are fairly comparable to Mangi and Dube who both took a couple years to make any sort of significant impact. I see Lucic as a place holder for a deadline acquisition. If we can't make the playoffs with Lucic in the lineup, we're better off to hang onto that pick anyways.

 

[super6646]

You make it sound like he didn't also play with Lindholm every year, with the exception of '21. One line teams usually aren't very successful. With the exception of Lucic, I have no problem with the lines we're icing. People talk about our prospects like they have instant game breaking abilities but in reality their skillsets are fairly comparable to Mangi and Dube who both took a couple years to make any sort of significant impact. I see Lucic as a place holder for a deadline acquisition. If we can't make the playoffs with Lucic in the lineup, we're better off to hang onto that pick anyways.

He did... as a winger. Totally different context, the fact is he was playing with a centremen who was on the decline while being compounded by injuries.

 

[Sparky93]

He did... as a winger. Totally different context, the fact is he was playing with a centremen who was on the decline while being compounded by injuries.

Whatever you want to believe. I doubt if Gaudreau/Monahan was 100% a coaching decision. It wasn't just one coach icing that line. Just like it wasn't shocking that Monahan wasn't moved until Johnny was confirmed as not returning.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Sucks to have a coach with elite X’s and O’s but no ability to trust young players.

Depth is everything and if we can’t trust at least 2 rookies a year we’ll always be a couple guys short of the elite teams that do find the 2 guys.

I’ve always admired what Bill Belichek said, even though he’s a gross human. “Don’t make people do things they are bad at”. Don’t put Lucic on the second line when you have a perfect option in Jake Pelletier. Huberdeau is way more physical than he gets credit for and Kadri is a battler and can open up ice down the middle. They need someone with skill, speed and IQ. Plus, Pelletier is a digger like Mangiapane and Paul Byron.

 

[violaswallet]

Huberdeau plays best with a bigger two-way center (Barkov, Bennett in Florida) and an agile winger (Dadonov, Denisenko). Kadri is the right center for him, but the RW needs to be augmented here with that type of winger

 

[Mobiandi]

Lucic is Lucic but I still haven't seen Huberdeau look as good as he did at the beginning of the season.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Lucic is Lucic but I still haven't seen Huberdeau look as good as he did at the beginning of the season.

Darryl has got his reins in by now - whereas at the start of the year Huberdeau was still displaying some level of offensive creativity and confidence. When's the last time we saw Huberdeau try his notorious no look spin pass? We saw it about 40 times in preseason + few weeks or so of the season.

Every time Darryl speaks about Huberdeau the phrase "puck management" comes up. His greatest tools as a player are being suppressed by the coach and system.

 

[JPeeper]

Lucic is Lucic but I still haven't seen Huberdeau look as good as he did at the beginning of the season.

Huberdeau will have a few shifts a game where you can see his elite ability, but I don't see it enough of a consistent basis. Huberdeau also thrives on the rush and Lucic is always so far behind the play that he kills all momentum.

I was initially fine with bringing Lucic back on a cheap 1 year deal for the 4th line at the beginning of the year, then it came out he was looking for a 2 year deal and now he's in the top 6. Treliving for the love of God, let him walk.

 

[Tofveve]

I remember as a kid there was an amazing outdoor rinks skater. He was a good 10 or 12 years older than me. Just amazing to watch as he'd go through this crazy skating routine. Lots of flash, crazy fancy cross-overs backwards and forwards. He did okay in the outdoor rink pickup games even - okay, nothing memorable though. In real life competitive hockey in the arena (minor hockey etc) he sucked. Don't even remember if he made any rep teams tbh.

Every time I see Hubes play I think of him. I still don't even know what to think of Hubes entirely but my expectation is nearly nil. When he's on the ice it's not like my pulse rate goes up and I think "ah our guy is out there and we're gonna score or get some good chances!" Like he's a total non-factor to me so far. Put anyone on the PP in his place and IMO we get the same results or better.

Sigh. Sorry Hubes fans. Hope things get better.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Every player has bad years. Most people weren’t high on Gaudreau after the bubble but a few of us were. Elite hockey players don’t just forget how to play hockey. They lose confidence

 

[Dack]

There's been come Huberdeau discourse on Twitter over the last day or so.

JFresh card that includes Corey Szajander's microstats which track zone entries, dangerous passes, dangerous shots etc. Last season he looked much better microstats wise, not Gaudreau level but very solid.

Jack Han also wrote a little about him and called him the most overrated point producer in the NHL. He was skeptical about the fit after the trade but reasonably optimistic and predicted he'd get 80 points or so.



I don't agree with everything he says (namely that Huberdeau is fast???) but I do agree that the way he plays takes away any type of dynamic ability that he could have by not moving his feet with the puck on his stick. He's very much a stationary player who needs other players to open up space for him so he can do what he's good at which is passing the puck.

Kadri-Pelletier seems like a good 1st step, those 2 can play fast and drive the net, opening lanes for him to use his passing ability. However, even without ideal linemates he shouldn't be this ineffective.