OT: 10 Best Players From the '03 Draft

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Was Gretzky less of a player with L.A.?

for what it's worth if you take his Edmonton accomplishments away from him he's not even 1/2 the historical player that he otherwise is. There's not a chance that anybody put some ahead of Bobby Orr or gordie howe or mario lemiex or quite a few other alltime greats based on what he did after edmonton.

Winning cups always influences things like hall of fame selections so even hockeys biggest experts use this critera when ranking players (along with other factors too of course)

 

[DKH]

for what it's worth if you take his Edmonton accomplishments away from him he's not even 1/2 the historical player that he otherwise is. There's not a chance that anybody put some ahead of Bobby Orr or gordie howe or mario lemiex or quite a few other alltime greats based on what he did after edmonton.

Winning cups always influences things like hall of fame selections so even hockeys biggest experts use this critera when ranking players (along with other factors too of course)

Gretzky's stats and performance are just ridiculously sick- so was Orr's. Orr had no peer then or now- and the way the game is set up its next to impossible to replicate what Orr did. He caught it as Doc Brown would say at the perfect time.

Gretzky did have a contemporary and that was Mario- he was in the ball park and for a few years there may have been his equal. Lemieux had quite the cast as well, and both teams may have represent the two most dominating offense teams in the history of the game- the Penguins with a second line of Mullen-Francis-Jagr has three HOF on it; the Edmonton second line had two in Messier and Anderson- yet be it Linesman or Simpson or whoever often times the third member was very good but played as a HOF at that point in time.

I saw Orr's and Gretzkys entire career and I'm biased to Orr- but its not close. I could argue either way for Lemieux or Gretzky depending on my home work assignment but when it came to Orr vs Gretzky its a slam dunk

Orr was hypnotic- you studied his every move as if watching a magician to see if you could see the trick. He was playing todays hockey THEN. Its as if he came from the future- crazy but it felt like that. He was not normal. I've never to this day seen any athlete be the obvious best player every game- he may have gotten no points, his team lost but your eye balls told you after 5 minutes 'that guy is different'.

I thought about this 2003 draft a bit and it really is like nothing I have ever seen- I'd probably go with the Preds two defenseman, but after that it is really like going to an ice cream stand and seeing about 5 or 6 or 15 (in my case) flavors you like.

 

[BNHL]

for what it's worth if you take his Edmonton accomplishments away from him he's not even 1/2 the historical player that he otherwise is. There's not a chance that anybody put some ahead of Bobby Orr or gordie howe or mario lemiex or quite a few other alltime greats based on what he did after edmonton.

Winning cups always influences things like hall of fame selections so even hockeys biggest experts use this critera when ranking players (along with other factors too of course)

Since Gretzky played for Edmonton during prime age hockey years (18-28) and LA when he was 28-36,no surprise his output was less. But the bigger factor is that Edm had a much more powerful team than LA and won another Cup without Gretzky. Cups are won by teams and may shine up an individual legacy but they should never be credited to a single player.Orr,Lemieux,Gretzky all won with great teams and would not have won with average teams.

 

[LouJersey]

Was Gretzky less of a player with L.A.?

Do cucumbers taste better then pickles? What does Gretzky have to do with this draft?

 

[LouJersey]

it made me chuckle because none of those getting "credit for championships" were the most important player during their cup seasons.

Thomas, chara, ward, quick, pronger, etc deserve that credit. This is about best players, not best players on great teams.

Where were Suter and Weber ranked on their Cup winning teams?

It's not the be all end all but come on when there are players this close in talent ill take the guys who have showed that they can shine in the clutch.

 

[BNHL]

Do cucumbers taste better then pickles? What does Gretzky have to do with this draft?

Seriously? Look back.

 

[BNHL]

Where were Suter and Weber ranked on their Cup winning teams?

It's not the be all end all but come on when there are players this close in talent ill take the guys who have showed that they can shine in the clutch.

Ugh. They'd be top players even if they played their entire careers on non cup winners.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Where were Suter and Weber ranked on their Cup winning teams?

It's not the be all end all but come on when there are players this close in talent ill take the guys who have showed that they can shine in the clutch.

Agreed.

As for Gretzky - yeah, probably. But he had already won four Cups and established himself as a prolific playoff scorer by that point. Still irrelevant to the thread, as I'm not sure what is being asked by it.

Great players become greater when they lift their teams to Championships. I don't see why that wouldn't be considered in discussing rankings...

 

[Ratty]

"Patty" B?? Not so sure Patrice would be happy with that moniker.

 

[BNHL]

Agreed.

As for Gretzky - yeah, probably. But he had already won four Cups and established himself as a prolific playoff scorer by that point. Still irrelevant to the thread, as I'm not sure what is being asked by it.

Great players become greater when they lift their teams to Championships. I don't see why that wouldn't be considered in discussing rankings...

Do they become less great when they don't like a 28 year old Gretzky couldn't in LA? Can't discount other players and circumstances when talking about championship teams. Hockey is probably only behind football in terms of team. The relevance of Gretzky in this thread is the implication that he would be less great if he played his career in LA and won none and I say BS. It came up because the 03 draft order of players or their evaluation shouldn't be effected by any championships. Probably rearrange most of those players and the championships stay where they area.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Seeing as we have Bergie, have brought in Eriksson, and just lost Horton, I'm curious to see where everyone thinks they rank...

My top 10:

1. Shea Weber
2. Eric Staal
3. Patrice Bergeron
4. Ryan Getzlaf
5. Corey Perry
6. Ryan Suter
7. Zach Parise
8. Jeff Carter
9. Thomas Vanek
10. Mike Richards

Hon. mentions: Ryan Kesler, Dustin Brown, Loui Eriksson

Maybe somebody smarter and more ambitious than me can figure out a way to tabulate the results...

After one full Year with the Bruins, it will be interesting to see where Loui ranks and I'd be willing to bet when its all said and done, he finds himself in the top ten after helping the Bruins to a couple more Cup titles.

 

[ODAAT]

I actually did a piece on this prior to the 2012-2013 season. Here's some stats:

Only 2 players in round 1 played fewer than 21 NHL games: Shawn Belle (20) and Hugh Jessiman (2)

15 of the remaining 28 have played in 500+ NHL games (lets not forget a lockout in there)
Another 4 played in 400+ games and another 2 in 300+ games

Round 2

1 player (Bergeron) played in 500+ games
5 players played in 400+ games
2 players played in 300+ games
16 played in 20 or fewer NHL games

If not for Bergeron's injury that cost him almost a season, only Eric Staal would have played more games than Bergeron.

Thx Dom as always, amazing draft

 

[DKH]

After one full Year with the Bruins, it will be interesting to see where Loui ranks and I'd be willing to bet when its all said and done, he finds himself in the top ten after helping the Bruins to a couple more Cup titles.

I think people are going to be happy with what this guy will do- kind of off the radar in Dallas but he is going to the bright lights and I expect big things

 

[DominicT]

I think people are going to be happy with what this guy will do- kind of off the radar in Dallas but he is going to the bright lights and I expect big things

LOL sorry Dan....always wanted to do that to you.

Seriously though, what he does/will do will be a lot more evident in Boston. A lot of eyes will be focusing on him.

 

[DKH]

LOL sorry Dan....always wanted to do that to you.

Seriously though, what he does/will do will be a lot more evident in Boston. A lot of eyes will be focusing on him.

With Eriksson, Iginla, Knight, and Thornton/Smith the Bruins have unarguably the best right wing group in hockey.

As for the video sad the odds of these roid guys dying of cancer or heart problems before 60 is exponentially higher than the average male

 

[BNHL]

LOL sorry Dan....always wanted to do that to you.

Seriously though, what he does/will do will be a lot more evident in Boston. A lot of eyes will be focusing on him.

Historically,don't 1 out of 2 1st round draftees play 500 NHL games? This draft is supplying that by the time they are 28,but will probably still end up somewhere around 50-60%.

 

[DominicT]

Historically,don't 1 out of 2 1st round draftees play 500 NHL games? This draft is supplying that by the time they are 28,but will probably still end up somewhere around 50-60%.

Quite true. But its where Bergeron stands in that second round group that is intriguing. Success, in terms of games played even despite missing a season with a concussion, he's at the top (with the exception of Staal) and no other second rounder comes close.

 

[BNHL]

Quite true. But its where Bergeron stands in that second round group that is intriguing. Success, in terms of games played even despite missing a season with a concussion, he's at the top (with the exception of Staal) and no other second rounder comes close.

Certainly has become one of the steals of the draft.

 

[DominicT]

Certainly has become one of the steals of the draft.

No doubt about it.

Some other interesting stats from that draft

Zero Russians after round 1 played in more than 17 NHL games
Six Europeans outside the first round played more than 100 NHL games (Eriksson is at the top of that list)
40 North Americans outside round 1 played more than 100 NHL games
Lee Stempniak (round 5) is most successful in terms of games played outside rounds 1&2 with 500+ games played

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Do they become less great when they don't like a 28 year old Gretzky couldn't in LA? Can't discount other players and circumstances when talking about championship teams. Hockey is probably only behind football in terms of team. The relevance of Gretzky in this thread is the implication that he would be less great if he played his career in LA and won none and I say BS. It came up because the 03 draft order of players or their evaluation shouldn't be effected by any championships. Probably rearrange most of those players and the championships stay where they area.

i think the argument is... that having a cup on the resume always elevates a player. for example bourque after he played in colorado >>>> in history then bourque before he play in colorado... without the colorado years theres always that "but he didnt win a cup"

or here is a pet argument of my own... terry oreilly gets a negative score because he doesnt win a cup... while clark gillies to name a name gets a positive score because he does win a cup. now gillies gets put into the hof and oreilly doesnt get a sniff

will anyone sit here and tell me that islanders wouldnt have won a cup with oreilly playing in gillies spot? is there anything else between these two players that makes clark gillies the better player to this degree?

simply having a cup on the resume will measurably elevate a player's position in any ranking done by hockey people

bourque was still a great player before his cup win with colorado... but he became much greater after it as far as all time rankings go. brad park is less of a player because he didnt win a cup as opposed to what he might be if he had a cup win or two...

if gretzky had never won a cup... people would say yeah he was great during the regular season but he never quite rose to the occasion at playoffs... see someone like alexander ovechkin for exhibit A of this happening right now. a few years ago ovechkin and crosby were 1 and 1a for best player in the nhl. then crosby won a cup and got his head messed up. ovechkin stayed healthy but didnt win a cup. today its not even remotely close who most fans rank as the better player even though ovechkin just won anoher hart trophy. fans call ovechkin washed up

i proposed a tyler seguin for alexander ovechkin trade earlier this year and got laughed out of the forum.

winning cups does matter when people sit down to evaluate these type of rankings.

even gretzky wouldnt have been as great if he had never won the big prize

 

[DKH]

when all is said and done the 03 draft will be known as the Bergeron-Eriksson draft

also, the Bruins in 2006 absolutely crushed it- one of the greatest drafts in history getting Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand in rounds 1, 2, and 3. ALL AS OF TODAY ARE THE LEADING GOAL SCORERS IN THEIR PARTICULAR ROUND. Had Alexandrov not been in round 2 this would be even more epic but they missed on him.

I believe Chiarelli was in charge of that draft but regardless this is a Stanley Cup calibar draft haul

 

[BNHL]

i think the argument is... that having a cup on the resume always elevates a player. for example bourque after he played in colorado >>>> in history then bourque before he play in colorado... without the colorado years theres always that "but he didnt win a cup"

or here is a pet argument of my own... terry oreilly gets a negative score because he doesnt win a cup... while clark gillies to name a name gets a positive score because he does win a cup. now gillies gets put into the hof and oreilly doesnt get a sniff

will anyone sit here and tell me that islanders wouldnt have won a cup with oreilly playing in gillies spot? is there anything else between these two players that makes clark gillies the better player to this degree?

simply having a cup on the resume will measurably elevate a player's position in any ranking done by hockey people

bourque was still a great player before his cup win with colorado... but he became much greater after it as far as all time rankings go. brad park is less of a player because he didnt win a cup as opposed to what he might be if he had a cup win or two...

if gretzky had never won a cup... people would say yeah he was great during the regular season but he never quite rose to the occasion at playoffs... see someone like alexander ovechkin for exhibit A of this happening right now. a few years ago ovechkin and crosby were 1 and 1a for best player in the nhl. then crosby won a cup and got his head messed up. ovechkin stayed healthy but didnt win a cup. today its not even remotely close who most fans rank as the better player even though ovechkin just won anoher hart trophy. fans call ovechkin washed up

i proposed a tyler seguin for alexander ovechkin trade earlier this year and got laughed out of the forum.

winning cups does matter when people sit down to evaluate these type of rankings.

even gretzky wouldnt have been as great if he had never won the big prize

And it's stupid. Orr wouldn't have won in LA but he'd have been no less the player.Bourque would still be the number 2 or 3 defenseman in history. But there is Mark Messier.....

 

[neelynugs]

super dowche Max Lapierre was in this draft's second round (anyone catch the comments Thursday Shawn Thornton said about him- love it; I hate piece of shiit0 I wish the Habs still had him, it would be the perfect marriage

please expand or maybe a linky?

 

[DKH]

please expand or maybe a linky?

NHL draft near year is in Philadelphia and a bunch of us are going- if you are free let me know, its a great time and city; I know you have gone in the past to the drafts

 

[BoyntBergie]

please expand or maybe a linky?

Was just about to ask the same. Would love to hear what Thornton had to say.