#1 playmaking winger: Kane vs Kucherov vs Marner vs Panarin

[Newusername]

Kuch

Kane/Panarin

Marner

 

[majormajor]

Marner was playing hurt in 19-20.

Okay, throw that year out and just look at last year.

Matthews+Hyman vs. Strome+Blackwell. Same exact P/60 and A1/60.

 

[Gurglesons]

Okay, throw that year out and just look at last year.

Matthews+Hyman vs. Strome+Blackwell. Same exact P/60 and A1/60.

Why are we throwing out that year? I went by a three year sample. Seems pretty fair.

Once again, I don’t subscribe to the fact playing with certain players amplifies production.

 

[majormajor]

Why are we throwing out that year?

You just did. You said Marner was injured. Leave it in and it makes the gap between Panarin and Marner look bigger.

Once again, I don’t subscribe to the fact playing with certain players amplifies production.

It can be overstated but it absolutely helps to play with great players!

 

[Gurglesons]

You just did. You said Marner was injured. Leave it in and it makes the gap between Panarin and Marner look bigger.

No, you quoted me commenting on a three year spread with a comment on a two year spread.

It can be overstated but it absolutely helps to play with great players!

Great player. Hyman is comparable to what Panarin has played with over those years.

 

[Dominance]

Kucherov got literally zero assists last year. Typical HF poll, voting on reputation.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Kucherov got literally zero assists last year. Typical HF poll, voting on reputation.

He a got a few in the games that matter though

 

[Rob Brown]

Marner has a solid case here based on the premise even though he is the worst overall player. Playmaking is really the only thing he is elite at as evidenced by him racking up assists while putting up very meager goal totals.

Kucherov also racks up some big assist totals but I can’t help but feel they’re inflated some playing in the strongest/deepest forward group in the entire NHL

I know this doesn't fall into the "playmaker" thread focus but Marner is good defensively and is a mainstay on the PK.

What does Tampa having good depth have to do with Kucherovs assist totals? What matters is who they actually play with. Marner is attached to Matthews which is going to inflate assist totals way more than Tampa having a deep forward group.

Marner hasn't played with Matthews his entire career. The only full year they played together was this past one, IIRC. He hasn't been attached to him at all.

 

[BlueBaron]

Hard not take Kuch. Number 2 is much harder.

 

[DRW204]

Kuch is my definitive #1. the rest is a toss-up and cant go wrong either way. I have

Kane
Panarin
Marner

but all 4 are elite, and are of the best at their position.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Kucherov. Not even a question.

Marner is 2nd IMO despite Panarin having the better stats.

Agree on Kuch, but it is a question and the other option is Panarin.

Panarin is a center piece player, Marner has not shown the same. Marner is elite, don't get me wrong, a legit star.
But imagine Panarin with Matthews and Marner with Strome? Panarin and Matthews would be like a constant AND1 mixtape, and Marner wouldn't reach a point a game with Strome.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Why are we throwing out that year? I went by a three year sample. Seems pretty fair.

Once again, I don’t subscribe to the fact playing with certain players amplifies production.

Then you don't understand the basics of a sport that you post an awful lot about.

 

[Lays]

Why are we throwing out that year? I went by a three year sample. Seems pretty fair.

Once again, I don’t subscribe to the fact playing with certain players amplifies production.

If someone asked you who you’d rather play with this season, Ryan Strome or Auston Matthews, you’d tell them it doesn’t matter? No, you would immediately say Auston Matthews.

Look no further than Ryan Strome himself. Bottom 6 player in Edmonton, can’t even produce .5 PPG. Now on the Rangers with Panarin stapled to his line and on the #1PP unit with Zibanejad and Fox, he’s suddenly a player that produces at a 70 point rate. Almost like playing with elite players causes you to score more..

Marner wouldn’t produce the same in Panarin’s position because he wouldn’t have an elite finisher on his line when normally he plays with two great finishers in Matthews/Tavares

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Backstrom's entire NHL career has always been torn apart because of just that. Probably one of the most questioned players in the NHL and a huge reason as to why he's always been extremely underrated.

Adam Oates
Craig Janney

Two of the greatest playmakers of their era just happened to have guys named Hull and Neely finishing their feeds. They're underrated to this day because of that.
Backstrom awaits the same fate.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Wasn’t Panarin on pace for 70+ assists the past 2 seasons?

 

[Gurglesons]

If someone asked you who you’d rather play with this season, Ryan Strome or Auston Matthews, you’d tell them it doesn’t matter? No, you would immediately say Auston Matthews.

Look no further than Ryan Strome himself. Bottom 6 player in Edmonton, can’t even produce .5 PPG. Now on the Rangers with Panarin stapled to his line and on the #1PP unit with Zibanejad and Fox, he’s suddenly a player that produces at a 70 point rate. Almost like playing with elite players causes you to score more..

Marner wouldn’t produce the same in Panarin’s position because he wouldn’t have an elite finisher on his line when normally he plays with two great finishers in Matthews/Tavares

Chemistry is an aspect. Maybe Strome plays a game that meshes with Panarin. Go listen to Dubois’ comments about Panarin on 31 Thoughts.

Both Marner and Panarin are elite talents, if we are talking Strome versus Matthews, I agree that Matthews is the better player.

If we are talking about Marner with Matthews or Strome, I don’t agree. Elite players find ways of making players better around them. It isn’t always the same thing when you have two players that love to have the puck.

Notice how Panarin is putting up better numbers after leaving Chicago despite playing with lesser talent.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then you don't understand the basics of a sport that you post an awful lot about.

I question the basics of the sport being elite players automatically produce better with other elite players. If anything the basics of the sport say that is completely opposite.

 

[CanadianSniper]

Kucherov is the best Playmaker, and Scorer on this list.

 

[North Cole]

Kucherov. Kthxbai

 

[Evergreen]

Kane for me.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I question the basics of the sport being elite players automatically produce better with other elite players. If anything the basics of the sport say that is completely opposite.

Did you ever play hockey at any kind of level? If so, remember how different your stats were when playing with (other?) good players versus being stuck with scrubs?

 

[Gurglesons]

Did you ever play hockey at any kind of level? If so, remember how different your stats were when playing with (other?) good players versus being stuck with scrubs?

This is a great concept. But anyone that has watched the NHL knows it isn’t as simple as putting the best players together and everything comes up roses.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This is a great concept. But anyone that has watched the NHL knows it isn’t as simple as putting the best players together and everything comes up roses.

Don't create a false dichotomy. I also notice that you avoided the bit about having actually played hockey, which is fair and your opinion is still valid. But first hand experience does add perspective to opinions on on-ice chemistry.

I'm not saying put your two best players out there and it will always work out. But the reasons not to do so are often related to spreading the scoring around, or two players not having complimentary skillsets (famously Bure and Mogilny never worked. Both wanted right wing, both wanted the puck, and Bure wanted warp speed while Mogilny wanted to slow things down). But all things being equal, with compatible skillsets? You will never convince anybody in league circles that, for a playmaking winger, there isn't a substantial difference between Matthews and Strome as linemates. You just won't.

 

[Gurglesons]

Don't create a false dichotomy. I also notice that you avoided the bit about having actually played hockey, which is fair and your opinion is still valid. But first hand experience does add perspective to opinions on on-ice chemistry.

I'm not saying put your two best players out there and it will always work out. But the reasons not to do so are often related to spreading the scoring around, or two players not having complimentary skillsets (famously Bure and Mogilny never worked. Both wanted right wing, both wanted the puck, and Bure wanted warp speed while Mogilny wanted to slow things down). But all things being equal, with compatible skillsets? You will never convince anybody in league circles that, for a playmaking winger, there isn't a substantial difference between Matthews and Strome as linemates. You just won't.

Yes, I’ve played hockey since I was 5.

My point is an argument of “Panarin is a better play maker because he does it with Strome and Blackwell and Marner has Tavares and Matthews” is not a legitimate argument.

Is there a cavern between the two? No, but I feel that Marner is the best play maker in the league after Kucherov from the wing.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Yes, I’ve played hockey since I was 5.

My point is an argument of “Panarin is a better play maker because he does it with Strome and Blackwell and Marner has Tavares and Matthews” is not a legitimate argument.

Is there a cavern between the two? No, but I feel that Marner is the best play maker in the league after Kucherov from the wing.

Then we have to agree to disagree here. I can't really frame it any differently.