Post-Game Talk: 1/9/18 | Canucks 1 at Caps 3 | You got the DUD!!!

[jd22]

Good post, @Bad Goalie . I agree. Canucks are not going anywhere fast.

 

[me2]

I stand corrected. No player with term on their contracts have ever been traded. Not sure why I didn’t look it up first.

The context is obvious. Both are signed multiple years because Benny expectedd Demko to spend this year in the AHL. Demko is expected to challenge Nilsson next season, they aren't sure he would win so Nilsson's extra year is handy.

Hence the extra years as they were not expecting to/aiming to trade them this year.

 

[Cupless44]

Prust says hi

Actually messier says hello too

Proust nowhere near. Messier good call. Now imagine 4 MORE years after this of Eriksson, his uninspired, unproductive play and that goofy hair and look on his face.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah that’s the number I was thinking too. Maybe it hasn’t fallen 300M, maybe it has but that seems like a lot. All I know is I remember seeing that number a lot, lot less.

They have been the biggest faller in the NHL since 2014. However, it's "only" about 70M from 800 to 730 with last months valuations.

The thing you need to remember is that most teams are growing. Every year there are about 25 teams that increase in value and then 5 or so that fall. Remember too that the whole league profited from Vegas joining the keague, but Vancouver's increase in value was one of the lowest.

So while the average team has gone up 15-20% in value since 2014, Vancouver has actually fallen in value by 10%... And that's the way you kind of have to look at it as an investor. With a relatively modest, average 15% growth since 2014,the Canucks would be worth around 920M today, instead of the 730M they are actually valuators at per Forbes. That is where the 200M comes from and its why aquilini should be concerned.

Of course from his perspective, he bought the team originally for 300M I believe so he's still way ahead.

 

[Grub]

 

[Wilch]

They have been the biggest faller in the NHL since 2014. However, it's "only" about 70M from 800 to 730 with last months valuations.

The thing you need to remember is that most teams are growing. Every year there are about 25 teams that increase in value and then 5 or so that fall. Remember too that the whole league profited from Vegas joining the keague, but Vancouver's increase in value was one of the lowest.

So while the average team has gone up 15-20% in value since 2014, Vancouver has actually fallen in value by 10%... And that's the way you kind of have to look at it as an investor. With a relatively modest, average 15% growth since 2014,the Canucks would be worth around 920M today, instead of the 730M they are actually valuators at per Forbes. That is where the 200M comes from and its why aquilini should be concerned.

Of course from his perspective, he bought the team originally for 300M I believe so he's still way ahead.

As much as I think the trust fund baby owner is an idiot, I think he's well aware of how each team has performed in terms of valuation. To top that off with a significant fall from grace since 2011 both in brand & valuation, he has to be pissed.

Doesn't mean he'll solve the problem like a smart business person though. I remember reading about how he's considering the prospect of letting Jimbo go at the end of this season despite liking the guy in the management thread. Yeah, go ahead and like the Pejorative Slur who turned your successful franchise into a retirement home for shitty overpaid veterans and deprived it of most, if not all the assets accumulated through the Burke, Nonis, and Gillis years.

He dug his own grave by getting involved after losing to Boston (only idiots make knee jerk decisions based on one sample), getting rid of talented management, and hiring a group of dimwitted idiots not even qualified to run a lemonade stand.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

As much as I think the trust fund baby owner is an idiot, I think he's well aware of how each team has performed in terms of valuation. To top that off with a significant fall from grace since 2011 both in brand & valuation, he has to be pissed.

Doesn't mean he'll solve the problem like a smart business person though. I remember reading about how he's considering the prospect of letting Jimbo go at the end of this season despite liking the guy in the management thread. Yeah, go ahead and like the ****** who turned your successful franchise into a retirement home for ****ty overpaid veterans and deprived it of most, if not all the assets accumulated through the Burke, Nonis, and Gillis years.

He dug his own grave by getting involved after losing to Boston (only idiots make knee jerk decisions based on one sample), getting rid of talented management, and hiring a group of dimwitted idiots not even qualified to run a lemonade stand.

The firing of both Gillis and Nonis were well deserved in hindsight. Their drafting was poor with no direction. Benning does not seem to excel at team building and could be fired for it.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Yeah... for the




Capitals!!

I was having a terrible morning until I read this f***ing masterpiece.

 

[Intangibos]

This has been discussed ad naseum. 1.5M per playoff game in revue multiplied by 5-6 home playoff games is literally nothing for Aquilini. His 2018 net worth is estimated at 3.3 BILLION dollars (and growing).

So the 10-12 M he would lose is equivalent to you losing $100 of your savings. Maybe less. (Too tired to do the math).

People like Aquilini absolutely do not see 10M as we see 100$

 

[Hit the post]

People like Aquilini absolutely do not see 10M as we see 100$

Well what other kind of value would he get from owning this club? Owning a lottery pick team ain't exactly something to be proud about. I mean, if he liked being around his "heroes" like #16, give him a front office job at corporate office. It'll end up being alot cheaper (as well without people laughing behind your back).

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Well the trajectory is awful. We aren’t getting even a little better than last year. We are getting worse. We aren’t even on the way back up yet for a few years. God this is gonna be a decade.

I never had much hope for this season (although Boeser has been a pleasant surprise). Next year should be a shitshow too... although, hopefully we'll be transitioning in some more young guys.

2019-20 I'm hoping to finally see the needle move in the right direction.

 

[valkynax]

The firing of both Gillis and Nonis were well deserved in hindsight. Their drafting was poor with no direction. Benning does not seem to excel at team building and could be fired for it.

And here comes the blame Gillis card again.

Gillis does not excel at drafting.

Benning does not excel at much of anything.

 

[M2Beezy]

Slight off topic....I quit smoking 11 days ago...you know the one thing I would love right now...like really cherish... is to meet somebody dumb enough to call me 'bruh' or 'bra' or 'brah' to my face. God that would be fun.

That makes no sense whats the connection bub? Better not be a racial thing like it looks like

 

[RandV]

The firing of both Gillis and Nonis were well deserved in hindsight. Their drafting was poor with no direction. Benning does not seem to excel at team building and could be fired for it.

This nonsense is how we ended up with Benning. At the very least, if ownership was unhappy with Gillis his track record should have been enough to earn him one more 'show me' year. Either way though it's not likely that he was fired specifically over anything results based, but rather because he pushed back against ownership meddling (not allowed to rebuild after 2013 San Jose loss, had Torts pushed on him as coach, had his Kesler to Anaheim deadline deal veto'd) and demanded full control of the team back.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Yes. It’s all relative.

People like Aquilini absolutely do not see 10M as we see 100$

 

[ginner classic]

That makes no sense whats the connection bub? Better not be a racial thing like it looks like

Racial thing? What the....?

No...it's simply an annoying, offensive expression.

So is 'bub'.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Why? So you can tell them nicely “please don’t call me that” ? If even?

The internet is full of 250lb jacked up muscle men trained in martial arts.

Slight off topic....I quit smoking 11 days ago...you know the one thing I would love right now...like really cherish... is to meet somebody dumb enough to call me 'bruh' or 'bra' or 'brah' to my face. God that would be fun.

 

[ginner classic]

Why? So you can tell them nicely “please don’t call me that” ? If even?

The internet is full of 250lb jacked up muscle men trained in martial arts.

The Internet is home to some scary things...but statistically not too frequently the 250 lb ninja.

 

[mattydamon]

Slight off topic....I quit smoking 11 days ago...you know the one thing I would love right now...like really cherish... is to meet somebody dumb enough to call me 'bruh' or 'bra' or 'brah' to my face. God that would be fun.

Look out! We got a tough guy over here!

 

[ginner classic]

Look out! We got a tough guy over here!

Tobacco withdrawl rage is scary.

 

[PG Canuck]

The firing of both Gillis and Nonis were well deserved in hindsight. Their drafting was poor with no direction. Benning does not seem to excel at team building and could be fired for it.

Agreed. Six out of seven years of his tenure were in the playoffs. What a shitty direction - the one we are going in now is actually far better.

 

[iceburg]

This post may be wasted here, but isn't it about time all sides of the Vancouver fan base came sat back and faced fact? This isn't really hard to accept. Once you drop the psychological defense systems and the pray for success of fandom you have to realize this team is not very good. It's not rebuilt. It's not a player or two from becoming a contender. Pettersson and one more top 5 draft pick isn't going to put the team over the top and back into being a force in the NHL.

The current Canucks are composed of 2 guys (the Sedins) whose prime left them and they are still decent players who can put up some points, but they are slow and no longer a force and the opponents score more than they do so the foes are not worried about them. Add to that a D-man who is going the same route in Edler.

Then you have a large number of guys who ended up here as a result of other teams deciding they were no longer of use. Granlund, Baertschi, Sutter, Eriksson, Gagner, Vanek, Dowd, Pouliot, Del Zotto, Gudbranson, Markstrom, Nilsson. These guys are not hot commodities. What could you get in a trade for any single one of them that is so much better than anything you have. Their value would likely return no more than you'd lose and probably less.

Then you have a 5th round draft pick in Hutton who is playing above that level, but is not a top 4 D-man along with Stecher, who wasn't even drafted, fitting the same description. Then you have AHL journeyman Biega who forced his way onto the team 2 years ago and fits the role of the reserve defender as well as it can be described. So three bottom pairing D-men.
The only true asset on D is plastic, Tanev. His plasticity lowers his value on the trade block even if he is a top NHL defensive D-man.

Gaunce is a great 4th line player, but could be replaced with an equal who might have a little more offensive punch. I'd keep him because he serves a necessary role well, but he wouldn't be a great loss.

Again let's face facts when discussing Goldobin and Virtanen. They are seriously long shots to become any type of impact player for the Canucks. Every team has players like them in their system and they are still in the AHL on most teams or serving a sheltered role where they get their ice time, but play with offensive minded players who utilize their specific talents and protect against their deficiencies, but I'm not sure they would be any better any where else. San Jose had said enough with Goldy and we saw Jake struggle at the AHL level where Goldy is a star. Are either of these 2 REALLY showing that they are serious threats to be mainstays on an NHL roster? Goldy is a season from pulling a Tryamkin and Jake is nearing trade bait as a part of a bigger deal.

Horvat and Boeser are draft picks from 2 different regimes and they form the future of this team. Baertschi is the best of the rest up front, but he isn't a player other teams would be standing in line to acquire. He is a fringe guy guy who can fill a role, but he's not the kind of guy that is a serious contributor in a youth movement.

Pettersson and Juolevi fit that role much better if they live up to their expectations. Everybody is convinced they will, but that is still unproven beyond fan glasses. Elias is the better bet and Juolevi becoming a top 2 defender is really reaching at the moment.

No, this team is a long ways from a successful rebuild. The so called complements to a full solid NHL D corps can't even survive down one member. If they were this solid group that so many boasted they were and thus, made Tanev tradeable (and some threw Hutton on the trade table as well), they would be sailing along just fine with Tanev out of the lineup. If the forward crew was only a Pettersson away from playoff caliber we wouldn't have seen the devastation that has befallen them with Horvat out of the lineup.

Sutter is not a foundation piece he is a bottom 6 guy who fills a necessary role at that level and he will be useful as long as that's the role they give him. Gaunce would have filled that center position better than any of these asked to fill that role since he went down. Gaunce is a shutdown defensive type guy who can feed wingers. No one seems to want to put him there.

Benning's messing around for 4 years has the Canucks close to where they were when he came on board. The Sedins will be gone and Horvat, Boeser, and hopefully (fingers crossed) Elias will be the center of the core. The complementary pieces are still in the wind. Baertschi can fit in the middle of the lineup, 2nd/3rd line, but he is not top 3 and without Horvat/Boeser type line mates he will fade into the background on the 2nd line. He's not going to carry a 2nd line as we have already seen since he's been a Canuck. They need to find 3 more solid top 6 guys immediately. They need a Dahlin type D-man beyond all shadows of a doubt. Juolevi is not that guy. A couple more top D-men are also necessary and these 4 would comprise the top 4. Had Benning made the right early round picks some of this group would already be on board and if he kept his high round picks , he might have garnered a couple more who would be rounding into form about now.

These players won't come by the means he has acquired his players over the past 4 seasons. How many of his picks are playing for the Canucks now? Who from the 1st 2 drafts are making an impact? From year one Demko is the diamond, but you absolutely never know with keepers. He alienated another (Tryamkin) who left and signed back in the KHL for 3 years and traded away 2 others (McCann and Fortsling) playing bigger roles in the NHL than the one he kept (Jake).

Boeser is it for year 2. Gaudette is the only other hopeful and he has yet to turn pro and as a 5th round pick will have to defy a lot of odds to become one of those top 6 so desperately needed. Only blind fandom refuses to accept that fact. I hope he does so too, but facts say we better not pencil him in just yet.

The hope from draft 3 is Juolevi. He's not enough to meet the defensive top needs.

Aside form 1st rounder Pettersson, year 4 gives us the same kind of hopes and aspirations every other NHL team's fan base sees in their youngest prospects. Good numbers in Jrs. and wow what they are going to add to the future. Lind and Gadjovich lead the Canucks' top hopefuls. I have already seen them show up in some fans' prospective rosters for next year. If you are steady followers of this site, you have seen this as well and a couple of you are ones who have done such. It would be really nice if you turn out to be right, but the odds of all the guys I've listed from the 4 drafts all becoming integral factors in the Canucks lineup moving into the next era of the Cancucks climb back to Cup contenders is astronomical. It could happen, but it's highly unlikely.

Good post BG. My view of it is much more simplistic. The team has a lot of pieces that could fit in to a perennial competitive team but they are missing several key must haves.
Any serious contending team has:
1. An elite #1 centre
2. A top end 2-way centre
3. A scoring winger (consistently 30 goal+).
4. A minute eating #1 defenseman who is good on the powerplay
5. top 10 goaltending

As it stands now they only have #3, Boeser, and he still needs to show he can do it over the long haul (things are looking good), and maybe #2, Horvat. They potentially have #5 in Demko but he has yet to prove anything at the NHL level. No where in the system are potential #1s or #4s. It's way to early to say how Pettersson will develop.
All the other pieces that you talk about could be used to fill in a line-up on a competitive team but none are in the must have categories.

 

[Numba9]

Good post BG. My view of it is much more simplistic. The team has a lot of pieces that could fit in to a perennial competitive team but they are missing several key must haves.
Any serious contending team has:
1. An elite #1 centre
2. A top end 2-way centre
3. A scoring winger (consistently 30 goal+).
4. A minute eating #1 defenseman who is good on the powerplay
5. top 10 goaltending

As it stands now they only have #3, Boeser, and he still needs to show he can do it over the long haul (things are looking good), and maybe #2, Horvat. They potentially have #5 in Demko but he has yet to prove anything at the NHL level. No where in the system are potential #1s or #4s. It's way to early to say how Pettersson will develop.
All the other pieces that you talk about could be used to fill in a line-up on a competitive team but none are in the must have categories.

This is a refreshing view compared to the "every player on this team is absolutely awful and terrible except for Tanev, Boeser and Horvat" The Canucks don't have a enough high end talent to compete with the top lines in the league. A lot of the players on this team would do fine playing lesser roles on a team with a better core.

 

[Numba9]

Agreed. Six out of seven years of his tenure were in the playoffs. What a ****ty direction - the one we are going in now is actually far better.

Uh, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Gillis's drafting having no direction. And by drafting direction I'm assuming he meant selecting players that are good instead of all the trash that Gillis actually drafted.

 

[valkynax]

Uh, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Gillis's drafting having no direction. And by drafting direction I'm assuming he meant selecting players that are good instead of all the trash that Gillis actually drafted.

Drafting is one of the many means to achieve an end - the cup. Gillis' draft was no good, but he brought the team one win away from the cup via other means.

And Benning's drafting isn't exactly great either.