Post-Game Talk: 1/25/13 - Wings beat Wild 5-3

[THEALLKNOWING*]

Lolwut?

Cannot clear a player out in front of the net, gets rubbed off the puck along the boards in the defensive zone. Watch the game! Can get the puck out of the zone offensively to his credit. Made big mistakes in each of the first 3 games. Its a big man's game, and Spurgeon, who looks up to PMB, can't be a long-term d-man option the Wild. Someone has already said to me this will be Suter's worst plus-minus year and that will be because of Spurgeon. Completely agree as long as he is paired with him. The only way a munchkin can play in today's NHL, is if you have Martin St Louis-type skills.

 

[jedisports]

When did that happen? No offense but how did you not see signs of trouble, at least in the second game? They look lackadaisical and with as many shooters as we have now, they still can't seem to get away from the whole pass first mentality.

I still think it's going to take another few games for them to click. Unfortunately it's a shortened season. I'm not saying it's not incredibly important to get their crap together asap. Problem here is local media and fans that are notorious for hopping on & off the local teams bandwagon (hell between periods on some occasions). If they don't string together more than 2 wins or 2 losses people lose their s***. It's foolish and annoying. Hopefully the team can just go about their business, get things working right without all the noise around them helping derail this season.

By perfectly, I meant we won the first two games, I didn't mean we played perfectly, I meant we were a perfect 2-0. I also talked about the things we needed to improve in both games and said it was nice to still win those games WHILE working on improvement.

 

[Puhis]

Spurgeon (no defensive skills or size)

Clearly, no defensive skills whatsoever.

He is not supposed to be physical or clear the crease. That's why Suter is on that pairing. Spurgeon was injured (from blocking a shot, clearly no defensive skills huh?) and Suter wasn't exactly impressive last night despite having Gilbert next to him.

All of the above examples highlight his defensive abilities. His offensive abilities are even better. He has top notch hockey IQ, his passing is excellent and he's got very soft hands. Can dangle and stickhandle if necessary. His shot may not be the fastest, but it's accurate and gets through traffic, and for a point shot, that's the most important attribute. He's got excellent mobility, his top-end speed might not be blinding but it's good. And he's very strong on his skates. For a D-man his size, it's a miracle he doesn't get tossed around more. I'd like to see you try and withstand a 6'4" 220lbs man cross-checking you from behind. Actually, I'd love to see that. Or the same guy creaming you head-first into the boards from behind. You wouldn't walk, let alone play hockey ever again. He does. And he shows why he's in the NHL and you're wrong on the internet.

 

[THEALLKNOWING*]

Clearly, no defensive skills whatsoever.

He is not supposed to be physical or clear the crease. That's why Suter is on that pairing. Spurgeon was injured (from blocking a shot, clearly no defensive skills huh?) and Suter wasn't exactly impressive last night despite having Gilbert next to him.

All of the above examples highlight his defensive abilities. His offensive abilities are even better. He has top notch hockey IQ, his passing is excellent and he's got very soft hands. Can dangle and stickhandle if necessary. His shot may not be the fastest, but it's accurate and gets through traffic, and for a point shot, that's the most important attribute. He's got excellent mobility, his top-end speed might not be blinding but it's good. And he's very strong on his skates. For a D-man his size, it's a miracle he doesn't get tossed around more. I'd like to see you try and withstand a 6'4" 220lbs man cross-checking you from behind. Actually, I'd love to see that. Or the same guy creaming you head-first into the boards from behind. You wouldn't walk, let alone play hockey ever again. He does. And he shows why he's in the NHL and you're wrong on the internet.

Since I am 6'4" and 230 lbs, I would have no problem with some guy my size trying to cream me. They had just better be ready to get something in return. the only problem I would have is age, since all of these players could be my sons.

Also, I kind of think the reason Fletcher went after Suter, was not to protect Spurgeon.

Finally, I understand your love for Spurgeon, since he appears to be your favorite. I try to look at it realistically, and what is going to make this team a Cup contender.

 

[Sharppi]

I'd want to try Mitchell on Granlunds wing, and throw Cullen to 4th line.

 

[TZM]

I'm not as good as Fin9 in this stuff but here goes nothing; peace and love, let's not throw a fit in here.

Gotta agree that Spurgie is doing great considering his size. His timing is great in many situations - hits, checks, blocking shots... Besides that he moves and protects the puck well and causes the opponent to take penalties. He can move the puck quickly enough that even if he is pushed around he rarely loses it - I mean the puck.

In the other end he is brilliant. He can move around with a lot of respect coming his way. He creates more space and time for the forwards and makes great passes across the ice.

That being said, we haven't seen the best of him in these last few games but it's too small of a sample to critizise him with. Especially when he's got a new pairing to play with.

 

[Puhis]

Since I am 6'4" and 230 lbs, I would have no problem with some guy my size trying to cream me. They had just better be ready to get something in return. the only problem I would have is age, since all of these players could be my sons.

Well, imagine that another you is trying to cream you to the boards at high speed. The velocity is insane. Then imagine that you'd be the size of Spurgeon. I'm 6'1" 220, so I'm not a small guy either, but I'd be tossed around the rink easily. That's why I've got tremendous respect for Spurgeon.

Also, I kind of think the reason Fletcher went after Suter, was not to protect Spurgeon.

I don't remember mentioning anything like that, but I assume you're referring to the comment I made about clearing the crease. Of course Fletcher is not going to sign a 7,5 mill D-man just to protect Spurgeon. He is a long-term asset, but he is also more defensive and bigger than Spurgeon. As long as they're paired, I'm expecting Suter to clear the crease and do the dirty work. He is more effective at that than Spurgeon, who on the other hand is good at getting the puck out of the zone and blocking the passing lanes.

Finally, I understand your love for Spurgeon, since he appears to be your favorite. I try to look at it realistically, and what is going to make this team a Cup contender.

I understand, but try to explain it a bit better next time. You were pretty harsh towards Spurgeon and you really didn't explain your reasoning at all. And he really isn't bad defensively at all, he is doing all the right things that he's capable of. It's the combination of good D and great O that makes him such highly regarded inside the organization as well as in my eyes.

He is very similar to Sami Vatanen in my eyes, only slightly slower but better defensively.

And sorry for going a bit overboard on you. It's just frustrating that I've had similar discussions with another member just recently. Thankfully, you don't seem as thick-headed.

 

[Jarick]

You know, if we are gonna keep playing like this, I'm gonna start looking in Yeo's direction more and more. He has way more skill on the roster than last year, but the team is still incapable of scoring 5-on-5. Seems to be a system-wide problem, up and down the lineup, no matter the personnel.

It's been only four games. 5-on-5 shots for Wild are 21st in the league. That's a little low, but not bad. It could be better.

Exactly how is the "system" causing this problem?

And it's not up and down the lineup, it's the 2-4 lines. The top line is fantastic. Parise is leading the LEAGUE in shots on goal. The top line is 1-2-3 on the team in shots. They have 61 shots. The rest of the team has 62. That includes the defense.

It's a personnel problem, not a system problem. The personnel decisions would be on the coach, but not how they are playing.

Another example. In the first period, we KILLED them on faceoffs. And then what happened? They adjusted and we didn't, that's what happened. And that's, again, something you can put on the coaching staff.

I don't see how coaches are winning or losing faceoffs?

Frankly, I think it's utterly ridiculous to have 5(!!!) left handed shots on one PP unit. You see what well coached teams do against that sort of set-up as it forces the team to be one dimensional and they essentially have minimal, low percentage opportunities on said PP. At this point that first unit is getting by on just will (and some skill) alone. The first unit has found success but it should have so much more with a proper set-up.

This I get, especially if they are going to overload the right side. I would want to see a skill guy with a right hand shot at that half wall if teams like Detroit are going to pressure the Wild so much on the PP. But I don't think the Wild has any right handed skilled forwards.

I can understand that the coaching staff doesn't want to make wholesale changes to lines when the team literally just started skating together and especially have minimal time to make something else work. But at the same time there needs to be a realization that the way it's currently constructed just doesn't work. There needs to be a willingness to move players up and down the line-up in-game if need be as well.

Yesterday was game four, so there wasn't any changes after three games. I think that's fair. But if Yeo sticks with the lines through the next game and we're getting our butts kicked on lines 2-4, that's a problem.

Also, I'm already tired of instructing Granlund to get the best possible advantage at the dot and if he's tossed, so be it. If he's going to be a center in this league, allow him to get comfortable in the circles. Especially when the next option is a marginal centerman in Cullen.

To be fair, Cullen has been a top 40 faceoff guy in the league for the last four years, top 30 last year, top 15 two years ago. But for Granlund's development I'd agree.

Speaking of Granlund, he's been getting manhandled quite a bit lately. I don't think it's entirely unexpected, but at the same time he needs to start moving his feet more. He's allowing opponents to take him out of play by coasting near contact; if he starts moving his feet he starts to become more dangerous and it'll draw more calls as well.

Agreed, and if Granlund needs more strength, let him get it at the AHL level. All he's going to do up here is get hurt if he continues to get pushed around like that. Although there should have been more calls by the refs for interference.

It looks like Granlund needs a lot more lower body and core strength. He's a bit smaller than Crosby, but Crosby is nearly impossible to knock over.

Great outing by Brodin. Outside of Parise, he was the team's best player last night. Brilliant job of skating his way out of trouble and he's finally a guy on the backend the team can depend on to aid in transition. Bright future.

You could definitely see the skill there. Such a good skater. And the composure? Holy hell. He made Stoner look DREADFUL.

As for Suter, he wasn't as bad as some are saying. However, based on expectations I can understand the frustration. He's been getting outplayed by Gilbert to this point, though, who I think has looked very good.

I'd agree. Gilbert has been very good overall and Suter just does not look comfortable. If it's going to take a while to get him up to speed...maybe don't give him so many minutes. I get that he's a $98M player, but you can't lose games trying to teach him the system on the fly.

 

[THEALLKNOWING*]

I agree Granlund appears easy to knock over, but isn't that the case with Spurgeon as well? Why is that not brought-up?

BTW, on local radio Wes Walz said Suter just fine. Part of Suter's problem per Wes, is that the Predators play a man-to-man style of defense, which the Wild do not. He's has been playing it for a handful of years-plus. Takes a while to adjust. If you watch closely, and take into consideration the system change, Suter really does have it.

 

[MNWILDFAN001]

Still, I think with both Suter and Shea Weber, who has no points for Nashville, we’re seeing that life without each other is a tougher transition than many of us would have guessed.

I'm picturing Suter and Weber on the phone late at night talking about how much they miss each other.

Another tough loss. I think this team should spend lots of time practicing puck possession in the offensive zone. They need to start learning each other's movements. We have the tools to score goals, just not getting good chances. Koivu needs to keep his legs moving at all times. With his speed, if he's standing still he's going to get beat to pucks and get stick penalties like hooking. Cullen has been, well, Cullen. Seto had a nice breakaway set up by Granlund I believe. Thought that was going to be the start of his goal scoring. I'm not ready to move Seto off the second line. I'd move Cullen first. Probably won't happen though. 3rd and 4th lines have been pretty unimpressive. There's many areas to improve and hopefully they will. I know it's a little early to panic, but I can feel it building up.

 

[tyratoku]

I'm not as good as Fin9 in this stuff but here goes nothing; peace and love, let's not throw a fit in here.

Dude is going to be the next Ghandi. He was hilarious last night. Until he disappeared about halfway through the 1st.

I've made a few posts in here so far, most last night, but after a night of sleep and a bit of time to think about the game, here are my thoughts:

Koivu - SHOOT THE PUCK

Heatley - I saw him lose the puck probably 3-4 times when trying to dangle around people. Guy, your speed isn't there anymore. Before, you were able to do that at a decent speed and the combination would help you out. Now, its a hindrance. You're slowing the game down to a crawl, and not in a good way. Love ya, Heater, but you gotta start doing things a bit differently.

Setoguchi - Pittsburgh seems to want him. At least, their fans do. Trade him over there in return for a guy like Despres, Morrow, or Harrington. All three are either ready for the NHL, or close to it. All are left handed guys, so it really doesn't matter to me. Morrow would be my choice if I had the option, though. Bring up Zucker in Seto's place. He'd do about as good, and it would make him even better for next year, when I think the Wild will actually be able to compete for a good playoff run.

Cullen - He won't be traded. If he was, I'd imagine it would only be to either Winnipeg or Carolina, the former because it's a bit closer to home than St Paul for him. Carolina for obvious reasons. The guy should be on the 3rd line. I am sorry, but he really should. Putting him down would get the insurance idea out of Granlund's head, and it would allow 64 to really try on the faceoff dot. Bring up PMB in Cullen's place.

PMB - Like Koivu, needs to shoot more. He tries to dump it off to Clutter or Brodz and neither are finishers, sorry. He's got space and should use it for himself more often.

Mitchell - Great speed and tenacity. I'd really like to see him on the 3rd line, where he was supposed to be anyway. But until next season at least, we have four 3rd liners in Brodziak, Clutterbuck, and Cullen. Setoguchi should probably fit there as well.

Konopka - I was expecting bigger things out of him last night, but as a 4th line guy he didn't get a whole bunch of ice time. When the Wild started playing bad in the 2nd and looked like they wanted to go home, Konopka should have gone out there and gotten a big hit or fought or done something to bring the energy back. But I can't really fault him much.

Brodin - Amazing. Really bright future.

Gilbert - Great. Far better than Schultz, imo. Good trade on Fletcher's part.

Suter - Not good, but I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I love the effort, and I know the play will pick up soon enough, but sometimes...meh. I can't blame hardly any of the goals directly on him, unlike some people on here who believe it is 100% 20's fault that half the goals happen, but whatever. It's their prerogative.

Harding - Eh. last night I was kind of pissed at the guy for some of the goals, but, like Suter, I can't really blame him for some. Most, even. I just expected more from the one guy who seems to be truly Anti-Detroit, especially coming off of his shutout performance the other night.

Way longer than I intended, but it is what it is.

 

[Dee Oh Cee]

Take the positives....like many others have said Brodin looked great in his debut...Parise playing well obviously.

Also, pleasantly surprised with the play of Stoner so far. He's been the team's best defenseman (close second to Gilbert).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Dude is going to be the next Ghandi. He was hilarious last night. Until he disappeared about halfway through the 1st.

I've made a few posts in here so far, most last night, but after a night of sleep and a bit of time to think about the game, here are my thoughts:

Koivu - SHOOT THE PUCK

Heatley - I saw him lose the puck probably 3-4 times when trying to dangle around people. Guy, your speed isn't there anymore. Before, you were able to do that at a decent speed and the combination would help you out. Now, its a hindrance. You're slowing the game down to a crawl, and not in a good way. Love ya, Heater, but you gotta start doing things a bit differently.

Setoguchi - Pittsburgh seems to want him. At least, their fans do. Trade him over there in return for a guy like Despres, Morrow, or Harrington. All three are either ready for the NHL, or close to it. All are left handed guys, so it really doesn't matter to me. Morrow would be my choice if I had the option, though. Bring up Zucker in Seto's place. He'd do about as good, and it would make him even better for next year, when I think the Wild will actually be able to compete for a good playoff run.

Cullen - He won't be traded. If he was, I'd imagine it would only be to either Winnipeg or Carolina, the former because it's a bit closer to home than St Paul for him. Carolina for obvious reasons. The guy should be on the 3rd line. I am sorry, but he really should. Putting him down would get the insurance idea out of Granlund's head, and it would allow 64 to really try on the faceoff dot. Bring up PMB in Cullen's place.

PMB - Like Koivu, needs to shoot more. He tries to dump it off to Clutter or Brodz and neither are finishers, sorry. He's got space and should use it for himself more often.

Mitchell - Great speed and tenacity. I'd really like to see him on the 3rd line, where he was supposed to be anyway. But until next season at least, we have four 3rd liners in Brodziak, Clutterbuck, and Cullen. Setoguchi should probably fit there as well.

Konopka - I was expecting bigger things out of him last night, but as a 4th line guy he didn't get a whole bunch of ice time. When the Wild started playing bad in the 2nd and looked like they wanted to go home, Konopka should have gone out there and gotten a big hit or fought or done something to bring the energy back. But I can't really fault him much.

Brodin - Amazing. Really bright future.

Gilbert - Great. Far better than Schultz, imo. Good trade on Fletcher's part.

Suter - Not good, but I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I love the effort, and I know the play will pick up soon enough, but sometimes...meh. I can't blame hardly any of the goals directly on him, unlike some people on here who believe it is 100% 20's fault that half the goals happen, but whatever. It's their prerogative.

Harding - Eh. last night I was kind of pissed at the guy for some of the goals, but, like Suter, I can't really blame him for some. Most, even. I just expected more from the one guy who seems to be truly Anti-Detroit, especially coming off of his shutout performance the other night.

Way longer than I intended, but it is what it is.

Good points. Agree with most of them, but what has Cullen done to show that he should even be on the 3rd line? I understand he doesn't necessarily have the "make up" of a 4th liner, but if they're going to get < 10 minutes a night anyway...

 

[Monaakko]

I'll give my impressions of the game and the season so far:

First off Suter: He's being asked to play the role Weber had in Nashville so it's only natural it will take some time to adjust. He really hasn't been as bad as some here paint him out to be, but he will get better.

As for the rest of the D: Gilbert has been good as has Brodin, and I like what Stoner brings, but that third pairing just scares me, not too much in the defensive end (although Prosser doesn't instill any confidence there either), but they aren't able to support the forwards in the offensive zone.

The first line has been very good, and for the first time we have a legitimate first line, I see no problems here.

The second line: Granlund does seem to have some problems staying on his feet, and I suppose this is in part because other teams recognize him as the offensive catalyst of that line and give him special attention, I hope he will improve in that aspect and as far as I can tell it's mostly a matter of moving your feet. He seems to just come to a full stop to make a play and the D jumps him and he's out of the play. If someone else on that line had the slightest ability to maintain pressure and cycle the puck that would open up alot of ice in the offensive zone, which is why I'd like Bouchard there. Overall I'd like to see Granlund take some pointers from PMB in how to control the play in the offensive end. Cullen does provide that line with faceoff skill and some forechecking, but not enough to warrant keeping him there. And as for Setoguchi, I'm not as down on him as some, I like this physical side and while I agree he should shoot more, I believe that will be the case in a PMB-FBJ-Seto line.

The third line: Clutterbuck shoots and hits, which is nice, but he's hardly a goalscorer and having PMB there seems a waste. Brodziak does a good job, but it isn't really a 2B line offensively as was intended. A Cullen-Brodziak-Clutter line won't be as dangerous offensively as the current third line, but it will have speed, shots and will be decent defensively and good on faceoffs.

Fourth line: nothing much to say here, it seems decent so far.

PP: I like Puhis suggestions of getting seto on the #1 PP for a RH shot and replacing Cullen with Brodziak, who was a decent net front presence last year.

All the talk of bringing up Zucker/Coyle seems a bit premature to me, and while they may be ready, I'd prefer to mix around with the lineup we have before changing it completely. We shouldn't be in full panic mode yet.

 

[Wildfan10*]

Looks like a missed an ugly one last night. I ended up going to the Beavers hockey, probably a lot more exciting.

 

[rynryn]

if you don't find frustration and horror exciting then I'm sure you are correct.