Post-Game Talk (GBU): #09 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly - Streak?

[Aladyyn]

What is he doing in junior that makes you think that? I do not see him play so this is not a trick question.

I'm 100% sure he's better than Gorges

 

[Moskau]

He's not ready either.

Murray needs to make a trade for a vet sometime after xmas when he knows how the standings will look and determine how much he will spend.

What decent vet defensemen are out there and either available or don't have some sort of trade clause in their contract though? That's a huge issue people seem to be ignoring. Even in trades Murray is going to have to find a partner with a guy who wants to come here in the first place because half the league has some sort of NMC for some reason. Murray WAS in on guys like Oduya etc. Even an AHL caliber player in Cody Franson basically waited until the last minute to reluctantly come here. It's great that Kyle Okposo wanted to come here but it doesn't change the fact that most players simply won't want to.

 

[Zman5778]

I'm 100% sure he's better than Gorges

You may want to get your assurance meter checked.

Gorges, while limited, is still absolutely an NHL player. He is better suited to the 3rd pairing at this point in his career......but he's an NHL player.
Guhle simply isn't at this point. Not yet.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I didn't get to see much of the game except for the last 10 minutes of the 3rd period. Frankly, I was impressed with Ennis's intensity and Risto's body work in the D zone. And for the 1st time in a looooooong time, I had confidence that the Sabres would hold the lead even with the Wild pulling their goalie.

Admittedly, I was slightly apprehensive at the repeated icing calls off the defensive zone face offs. And I was irritated that the linesman wouldn't toss the Wild out of the face off circle in spite of repeated infringements.

Boudreau helped the Sabres with his use of the Wilds time out after repeated Sabre icings. Even Disco seemed like he had his act together on calling out the Sabres defensive coverages. (That might be because Blysma and Boudreau faced off so many times against each other when they were at Pittsburg and Washington.)

 

[sabrebuild]

What decent vet defensemen are out there and either available or don't have some sort of trade clause in their contract though? That's a huge issue people seem to be ignoring. Even in trades Murray is going to have to find a partner with a guy who wants to come here in the first place because half the league has some sort of NMC for some reason. Murray WAS in on guys like Oduya etc. Even an AHL caliber player in Cody Franson basically waited until the last minute to reluctantly come here. It's great that Kyle Okposo wanted to come here but it doesn't change the fact that most players simply won't want to.

I think he waits to see where the league is at. I think the nmc is an issue for all teams. But I don't think buffalo should be looked at as a pit no one will come to. Okposo is one, but ror didn't have to stay.

And to be honest pegula has a rep for paying big deals and taking care of players.

If this team is in the playoffs hunt or comfortably in the playoffs with a healthy eichel, it will also look like a good place to win and build a resume.

Buffalo will never have new york pull, but I think they are already out of waste land status.

I also don't think a depth guy will be the target.

Predicting a run at Fowler, Trouba or another top player yet to be available. Beginning to think with the bogo injury/kinda sucks, means a quality rhd isn't off the table either.

 

[Slangston]

Is Larsson turning into a Butch Rolle for the Sabres ??

I don't know, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind looking as good as that guy at age 52.

 

[ThunderD]

TOI last night:

Risto 25:18
Kulikov 27:40

And they're gonna keep getting that, I'd wager.

Bylsma admitted that he made a mistake last season by playing ROR and Risto too much. Making the same mistake again.

Wouldn't you guys think with Bogo going down Kulikov was getting double shifted with the other defensemen and that lead to his high TOI? Let's see what happens the next game when we are back to 6 defensemen.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Good:

- Kulikov, McCabe, and Ristolainen were very good.
- ROR doing everything well
- Okposo didn't score but playing really well
- I'm a huge fan of Ennis, Reinhart, and Girgensons. Girgensons takes draws, Reinhart is playing center position ally, and together they allow Ennis to skate. And Ennis looks very dangerous almost every shift
- Lehner
- FLG playing great
- Power from Foligno

Bad:

- Lehner still struggling with rebounds
- Got hemmed in by the Wild at times
- Not a ton of high percentage scoring chances

Ugly

- Bogosian injured

 

[Jame]

What decent vet defensemen are out there and either available or don't have some sort of trade clause in their contract though? That's a huge issue people seem to be ignoring. Even in trades Murray is going to have to find a partner with a guy who wants to come here in the first place because half the league has some sort of NMC for some reason. Murray WAS in on guys like Oduya etc. Even an AHL caliber player in Cody Franson basically waited until the last minute to reluctantly come here. It's great that Kyle Okposo wanted to come here but it doesn't change the fact that most players simply won't want to.

Scandella doesn't have any clause
Scandella is an LD on a team with Suter and Brodin on the left side
Scandella is 26, and signed for 4 seasons.

This should happen

(he's injured right now)

 

[Der Jaeger]

Scandella doesn't have any clause
Scandella is an LD on a team with Suter and Brodin on the left side
Scandella is 26, and signed for 4 seasons.

This should happen

(he's injured right now)

Kane to Minnesota for Scandella.

Scandella - Ristolainen
Kulikov - Bogosian
McCabe - Nelson
X Gorges

 

[haseoke39]

Gorges, while limited, is still absolutely an NHL player. He is better suited to the 3rd pairing at this point in his career......but he's an NHL player.

I question that. If he was in the AHL, I don't know that he'd be earning a call-up.

 

[wunderpanda]

G- win streak is 3 games!
-didn't get shut out
-scored more than 1
-Kulikov & the D clearing Lehner rebounds

B- Zemgus & Larsson look better at center than 2OA Sam
- Defense was better after Bogo went down

*
Not really anything ugly in a win and even the bad is just splitting hairs. Sabres starting to wipe off that early season stench so credit to Bylsma & the players for that.

 

[Zip15]

You may want to get your assurance meter checked.

Gorges, while limited, is still absolutely an NHL player. He is better suited to the 3rd pairing at this point in his career......but he's an NHL player.
Guhle simply isn't at this point. Not yet.

I would agree only insofar as some teams carry eight defensemen, so I suppose he could be a valuable vet 8D. As for Gorges being an effective 3rd pairing defenseman, that's just not true. He gets caved against every level of competition, not just top competition. His pucks skills are laughably bad, and the puck goes to die on his stick in the offensive zone. Worse yet, his defensive-zone positioning is often poor, which is alarming for a "defensive defenseman." As I said earlier, he flunks the eye test and his advanced stats are putrid; just over 10% of the season is done and his analytics numbers would stick out in a bad way on Buffalo's 2014-15 tank team.

We were warned the guy was on his last legs when we acquired him. I firmly believe that 16-17 Gorges may end up being worse than 15-16 Moulson in the annals of "Worst Individual Sabres Seasons Ever."

 

[sabrebuild]

I would agree only insofar as some teams carry eight defensemen, so I suppose he could be a valuable vet 8D. As for Gorges being an effective 3rd pairing defenseman, that's just not true. He gets caved against every level of competition, not just top competition. His pucks skills are laughably bad, and the puck goes to die on his stick in the offensive zone. Worse yet, his defensive-zone positioning is often poor, which is alarming for a "defensive defenseman." As I said earlier, he flunks the eye test and his advanced stats are putrid; just over 10% of the season is done and his analytics numbers would stick out in a bad way on Buffalo's 2014-15 tank team.

We were warned the guy was on his last legs when we acquired him. I firmly believe that 16-17 Gorges may end up being worse than 15-16 Moulson in the annals of "Worst Individual Sabres Seasons Ever."

Ehh, the moulson bar is a lofty goal. I think gorges keeps himself out of the running for his play in the Edmonton game.

 

[DJN21]

I would agree only insofar as some teams carry eight defensemen, so I suppose he could be a valuable vet 8D. As for Gorges being an effective 3rd pairing defenseman, that's just not true. He gets caved against every level of competition, not just top competition. His pucks skills are laughably bad, and the puck goes to die on his stick in the offensive zone. Worse yet, his defensive-zone positioning is often poor, which is alarming for a "defensive defenseman." As I said earlier, he flunks the eye test and his advanced stats are putrid; just over 10% of the season is done and his analytics numbers would stick out in a bad way on Buffalo's 2014-15 tank team.

We were warned the guy was on his last legs when we acquired him. I firmly believe that 16-17 Gorges may end up being worse than 15-16 Moulson in the annals of "Worst Individual Sabres Seasons Ever."

You think he's going to dethrone Franson?!

 

[ottawah]

Re: "Zegmus"

Not clear any player on any team needs to justify his draft position once he's played several seasons in the NHL, but let's look at the facts anyway...

In the 2012 draft BUF desperately needed centers. At that draft, Galchenyuk went #3 and wasn't available to BUF.

Then, the run on centers began at #11 with Forsberg / Grigorenko / Faska / Girgensons going in the next 4 picks. The only drafted center taken later in the round with a better career has been #17 Tomas Hertl (whom I enjoy watching). Ignoring role and teammates, Hertl and ZG are clearly not the same style players. If you're gonna play shoulda/coulda/woulda, then OK, Hertl.

And, keeping the 21st pick instead of trading up may not have landed BUF an NHL-caliber center.

Note also, ZG is in his 4th NHL season. Same as Lindholm, Tom Wilson, Nail Yak, Morgan Rielly, Cody Ceci, Mmaattaa, Hertl. The only ones to play sooner were Galchenyuk & Forsberg (somewhat special case).

In terms of production, ZG is 9th in PPG and tied for 7th in GP from that class. If you look at who is above and near him on those lists, I believe he sorts to where he was drafted. But again, not that justifying ZG's draft position matters.

He can play in the NHL, and versatile role / position. What matters is what his role is/will be for BUF this year, and what role / value he will have in the Sabres future or whether he'll be moved for another asset.

People put way too much value on draft picks. It does not mean a team can forgo them, just the odds are really stacked against teams.

He was a 14th pick overall. What is the average for that spot? Not pretty. The average is a 4th line player with ~400 games played. I'd say he has been that. Sure some have been better, but some have been worse. 1 in 7 do not get 100 games in the NHL.

He seems about average for that draft slot, so I'd say yes, perfectly justified.

 

[OkimLom]

People put way too much value on draft picks. It does not mean a team can forgo them, just the odds are really stacked against teams.

He was a 14th pick overall. What is the average for that spot? Not pretty. The average is a 4th line player with ~400 games played. I'd say he has been that. Sure some have been better, but some have been worse. 1 in 7 do not get 100 games in the NHL.

He seems about average for that draft slot, so I'd say yes, perfectly justified.

the past 20 years worth of 14th overall picks:

2016: Charles McAvoy
2015: Jake DeBrusk
2014: Julius Honka
2013: Alexander Wennberg
2012: Zemgus Girgensons
2011: Jamie Oleksiak
2010: Jaden Schwartz
2009: Dmitri Kulikov
2008: Zach Boychuk
2007: Kevin Shattenkirk
2006: Michael Grabner
2005: Sasha Pokulok
2004: Devan Dubnyk
2003: Brent Seabrook
2002: Chris Higgins
2001: Chuck Kobasew
2000: Vaclav Nedorost
1999: Jeff Jillson
1998: Patrick DesRochers
1997: Michel Riesen

It's an ugly batch of forwards. Defense is a tad better.

 

[VaporTrail]

I don't know, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind looking as good as that guy at age 52.

That's nuts !

 

[brian_griffin]

<snipped some commentary on Gorges>

We were warned the guy was on his last legs when we acquired him. I firmly believe that 16-17 Gorges may end up being worse than 15-16 Moulson in the annals of "Worst Individual Sabres Seasons Ever."

Ehh, the moulson bar is a lofty goal. I think gorges keeps himself out of the running for his play in the Edmonton game.

You think he's going to dethrone Franson?!

No matter how poorly Gorges and Franson perform this season, a replica trophy will need to be cast, as the one on Ville Leino's mantle is there forever.