Post-Game Talk: “You’re My Favourite Mistake” Oilers tank game 81 to let AZ close this franchise with a W

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

He’s earned a small raise from the oilers but if he wants more than 3.25 I let him go UFA. Before this season he was slightly over paid I’d rather not go back to that

 

[K1984]

Oil come down with Valley Fever with likely more dump-ins within Mullet Arena toilets than the turd on the ice. Opportunity to sharpen the special teams also an afterthought as they opt to play the dupe a la Washington Generals. Much like the build up for this post-game thread, this was a waste of time.

Goodbye Desert Dogs. See you in five years. Time to buzz off to make way for the Utah Swarm or Utah Book of Mormons.

I wasn't overly offended at the 5/10 effort, but I was at the atrocious special teams effort.

Both the poweplay and penalty kill are a major problem on the road to the point where I'm concerned that it will make it borderline impossible to win on the road against an elite team. I was hoping that at least a slight amount of focus on these areas would have been a focal point of this game, but instead we decided to forego the opportunity.

A significant amount of practice time needs to be spent on special teams in the lead up to the playoffs. There seems to be a nonchalance about it - "oh they're the best, they'll figure it out." There has been zero indication at any point in the season that either side of special teams can get it together on the road. We are playing pretty solid hockey 5v5, I really hope we don't let this be the reason we are eliminated this year.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He’s earned a small raise from the oilers but if he wants more than 3.25 I let him go UFA. Before this season he was slightly over paid I’d rather not go back to that

Bingo. He was a cap dump the majority of his contract here. Paying him a nice raise because of a bump in a contract year would be a mistake.

 

[tiger_80]

That Guenther reminds a German character from a movie: "I am ze seks mashin, ze seks mashin."

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah honestly I'm gonna be a villain here and just say it: I sympathize with their fans(honestly maybe the most dedicated considering all they dealt with) but as shitty as it is, the organization and NHL had 28 years to get it together. Nothing against the fans at all but the org was a tire fire and this was overdue. It's not wrong to call it as it is.

But it isn't. Most of the "fans" in the stands yesterday probably hadn't been to a game in awhile. It was even reported that so often Mullet Arena is full of OOT fans instead of home fans. They said last time Oilers were there it was 80% Oilers jerseys in the arena.

The whole point is Phoenix, or Arizona have never taken to the NHL. Maybe you have 1K diehards that have. That can't support a Junior team.

Arizona is one of the biggest markets in America. With an actual good owner and team they could thrive there.

OK, Thanks. I slept on that. Looks like the Metro pop has exploded to around 5M. The whole Arizona pop is 7M so its kind of surprising that one metro area is 80% of it but then again I've never been there. I'm pretty averse to desert environments. Can't believe so many people decide to live there, especially through their blasting furnace summers.

Pretty crazy how much the Phoenix Metro pop has increased over last 50yrs. Was 1M in 1974. Everybody says the advent of air conditioning has allowed people to live there but why? This increase is not sustainable and its a market where property prices routinely collapse.

 

[Drivesaitl]

One of the biggest markets and population centers in the US, which makes Bettman giddy. Doesn’t really have anything to do with hockey.

Atlanta is probably the same.

Thanks. Was surprised to see that as of now its top dozen metro pops in US. Its really climbed from obscurity. But its the most likely urban center to have population collapse.

Someone is gonna give Foegele a multi year contract starting with a 4 and that someone is going to regret it before the first year is out.

He's a quality depth player but that's exactly the type of piece that smart teams constantly churn into cheaper replacements.

He's had a real good season. Must be a playing for contract season. The guy is skilled and has hands. Its pretty amazing how he settles for less than this. Guy could be a regular 20 goal scorer in this league. That said he's earned his pay this season.

 

[McBeastMode]

One of the most cemented childhood memories for me and that song will always be synonymous with that moment.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I wasn't overly offended at the 5/10 effort, but I was at the atrocious special teams effort.

Both the poweplay and penalty kill are a major problem on the road to the point where I'm concerned that it will make it borderline impossible to win on the road against an elite team. I was hoping that at least a slight amount of focus on these areas would have been a focal point of this game, but instead we decided to forego the opportunity.

A significant amount of practice time needs to be spent on special teams in the lead up to the playoffs. There seems to be a nonchalance about it - "oh they're the best, they'll figure it out." There has been zero indication at any point in the season that either side of special teams can get it together on the road. We are playing pretty solid hockey 5v5, I really hope we don't let this be the reason we are eliminated this year.

Yup, I wanted to see a sharp showing on special teams. A critical area for playoffs especially getting the PK and goal suppression side of winning firing going into the second season. The PP was pretty pedestrian during McDavid's absence but, even still, hope to see their pace and movement increase with threat options beyond the cross seamers to a stationary Draisaitl. Hugely important though as you mention that this team is much better at 5 v 5.

 

[Mav3rick07]

Meaningless game played at half speed and we didn't win. Who f***ing cares. All that matters is that we are healthy and rested heading into Sunday.

I imagine the big guns will be scratched tonight ?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Edit: n/m

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

But it isn't. Most of the "fans" in the stands yesterday probably hadn't been to a game in awhile. It was even reported that so often Mullet Arena is full of OOT fans instead of home fans. They said last time Oilers were there it was 80% Oilers jerseys in the arena.

The whole point is Phoenix, or Arizona have never taken to the NHL. Maybe you have 1K diehards that have. That can't support a Junior team.



OK, Thanks. I slept on that. Looks like the Metro pop has exploded to around 5M. The whole Arizona pop is 7M so its kind of surprising that one metro area is 80% of it but then again I've never been there. I'm pretty averse to desert environments. Can't believe so many people decide to live there, especially through their blasting furnace summers.

Pretty crazy how much the Phoenix Metro pop has increased over last 50yrs. Was 1M in 1974. Everybody says the advent of air conditioning has allowed people to live there but why? This increase is not sustainable and its a market where property prices routinely collapse.

It is a market that can work. But the NHL insisting upon it did it no favours. And just terrible owner after terrible owner with Alex likely being the worst of them.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Those shitty billionaires who don’t know how to play with their toys correctly eh Keith. You really should go watch the wnba.

He's right though. The owner is awful. Got his team kicked out of their arena, couldn't find them a suitable home, didn't hire quality people to build and run the team, left a trail of unpaid bills behind him to the point where creditors apparently had to go to the NHL about it, and hotels refused to lodge them unless they paid in advance - it's remarkable how a horrible owner can screw up a franchise.

We almost lost ours due to a garbage owner once upon a time as well. I hope everyone remembers that while we laugh at the misfortune of Coyote fans.

 

[nally]

More I think about it...would you rather play the Golden Knights in the first round (before they get their feet under themselves) or the second round, after they have gelled as a team.

If I had to choose, I think I'd rather face them in the first round

 

[ManofSteel55]

It is a market that can work. But the NHL insisting upon it did it no favours. And just terrible owner after terrible owner with Alex likely being the worst of them.

This. And the NHL will be back in Arizona some day, under expansion rules, where they can build a competitive team from day one, but they're going to wait until they have the right owner to do it this time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He's right though. The owner is awful. Got his team kicked out of their arena, couldn't find them a suitable home, didn't hire quality people to build and run the team, left a trail of unpaid bills behind him to the point where creditors apparently had to go to the NHL about it, and hotels refused to lodge them unless they paid in advance - it's remarkable how a horrible owner can screw up a franchise.

We almost lost ours due to a garbage owner once upon a time as well. I hope everyone remembers that while we laugh at the misfortune of Coyote fans.

Remember when Melnyk refused to spend money and Rocky Wirtz wouldn’t televise home games?

Yeah, wonderful owners.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It is a market that can work. But the NHL insisting upon it did it no favours. And just terrible owner after terrible owner with Alex likely being the worst of them.

Why do you think so? I haven't paid attention to the owners too much. Seems to me they've had several, and several arenas and nothing has worked.

My own opinion is they don't deserve an NHL franchise anymore than Atlanta.

 

[ManofSteel55]

More I think about it...would you rather play the Golden Knights in the first round (before they get their feet under themselves) or the second round, after they have gelled as a team.

If I had to choose, I think I'd rather face them in the first round

First round. But the real benefit to them losing tonight and Kings winning, would be that the Knights cross over to the central and have to battle it out with Dallas/Winnipeg/Colorado so we could focus on our old enemy the Kings first, and then the winner of Vancouver/Nashville. I don't expect we have to face Vegas at all if they cross over, I can't see them coming out of that foursome.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This. And the NHL will be back in Arizona some day, under expansion rules, where they can build a competitive team from day one, but they're going to wait until they have the right owner to do it this time.

The team they have on the ice is probably geared to have some success. Nice young squad with some potential. Probably be better in upcoming years than what they could salvage in an NHL draft. not every new team succeeding. Vegas did but Seattle flopped. Completely wrong model/concept of picking a team. Seattle will flounder until they figure it out.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Why do you think so? I haven't paid attention to the owners too much. Seems to me they've had several, and several arenas and nothing has worked.

My own opinion is they don't deserve an NHL franchise anymore than Atlanta.

Nothing has worked because they were never an even average team, and that's on ownership not bringing in the right people to build a winning team. They've been around for almost 30 years, but they had one playoff run, and they filled their rink then. If they could have had a sustained period of even average success, they might have had a chance, but they had owners who wouldn't spend on their team, and in the early years tried to trap their way to wins with below average players and a couple of good players, but no superstars, but it failed, and it was boring, so they didn't build a fan base. That's all on the owners.

The team they have on the ice is probably geared to have some success. Nice young squad with some potential. Probably be better in upcoming years than what they could salvage in an NHL draft. not every new team succeeding. Vegas did but Seattle flopped. Completely wrong model/concept of picking a team. Seattle will flounder until they figure it out.

They have some good players, but they need some help on the blueline, and ideally some veterans who have had some success. The new owner seems committed to trying to get those pieces. The old ownership never was, they didn't want to spend the money to make the team good. They ended up trading their good young players for more futures way too often, and only went after free agents that nobody else wanted.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why do you think so? I haven't paid attention to the owners too much. Seems to me they've had several, and several arenas and nothing has worked.

My own opinion is they don't deserve an NHL franchise anymore than Atlanta.

There is a correlation between success and how attractive you are to fans. The Hawks pre-Toews and Kane were barely a blip on the map in the city. A couple franchise players and another owner later and they were the hottest ticket in town.

The Coyotes never had any success or franchise talents. No disrespect to Doan but when that’s the face of your franchise then the franchise isn’t worth talking about.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Bettman had two decades to find a good owner, it’s an absolute failure on his part. If it’s such a great market why couldn’t the league find a stable owner willing to invest in the market?

I’d love to point and laugh at Bettman because this was something that was very clearly important to him so it feels good to watch it fail for that reason. But of course even when they’re losing they’re winning because they go out and find a sucker to way overpay for the asset which owners will get their chunk of.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nothing has worked because they were never an even average team, and that's on ownership not bringing in the right people to build a winning team. They've been around for almost 30 years, but they had one playoff run, and they filled their rink then. If they could have had a sustained period of even average success, they might have had a chance, but they had owners who wouldn't spend on their team, and in the early years tried to trap their way to wins with below average players and a couple of good players, but no superstars, but it failed, and it was boring, so they didn't build a fan base. That's all on the owners.


They have some good players, but they need some help on the blueline, and ideally some veterans who have had some success. The new owner seems committed to trying to get those pieces. The old ownership never was, they didn't want to spend the money to make the team good. They ended up trading their good young players for more futures way too often, and only went after free agents that nobody else wanted.

Yotes went to Conference final in 2012. They got farther than any team here had from 1990-2006. Its no excuse.

Arizona never filled the rink any year. If anything there was no difference in attendance in 2012. Not even a blip.

Phoenix Coyotes yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Phoenix Coyotes of the National Hockey League.

www.hockeydb.com

Next this is their season record historically. They made the playoffs a lot more than Oilers or many teams through their time frame in Arizona. Again no excuse.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

Now you could say on the whole they were below average but its completely false to say "they were never even an average team".

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yotes went to Conference final in 2012. They got farther than any team here had from 1990-2006. Its no excuse.

Arizona never filled the rink any year. If anything there was no difference in attendance in 2012. Not even a blip.

Phoenix Coyotes yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Phoenix Coyotes of the National Hockey League.

www.hockeydb.com

Next this is their season record historically. They made the playoffs a lot more than Oilers or many teams through their time frame in Arizona. Again no excuse.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

Now you could say on the whole they were below average but its completely false to say "they were never even an average team".

You can't compare a team with one year of playoff wins to a community whose entire identity is at least in part based off of their team's dynasty from 40 years ago. Sorry. Arizona never filled the rink, because they never laid a foundation of success, so their community never had a reason to buy in and give it a chance. In Canada, that reason is hockey. In half of our Canadian markets, there is a tradition of winning (if you go back far enough, eh Tarana).

They weren't an average team. Look at how often they won a playoff round. Go ahead, count the number of years. Since they moved to Arizona, they had only one year that could be judged as successful. A couple of others that you could say they were average, as they overacheived and made the playoffs playing defense first, trap hockey. They missed the playoffs how many times?

You're trying to compare fans returning to support a struggling franchise, regardless of success due to loyalty, to a team that never gave its community a reason to be loyal to it. They never spent on star players. They never played exciting hockey. They won playoff rounds once. And in those playoffs, they filled the rink.

Sorry, but the only comparison between the Oilers and Coyotes from a business perspective that should be taken the least bit seriously, is that awful owners almost took down both franchises. The only reasons we survived Pocklington, is affinity from the community due to our dynasty, and being in Canada. Arizona never had those. They didn't put the people in place to be good enough to compete. You can't blame the fans for not showing up when the organization gave them a reason to in 1 year of their existence.

 

[CupofOil]

He's had a real good season. Must be a playing for contract season. The guy is skilled and has hands. Its pretty amazing how he settles for less than this. Guy could be a regular 20 goal scorer in this league. That said he's earned his pay this season.

Foegele has some skill but his hands are below average. He has a nice shot when he utilizes it and is strong on the forecheck when his head is in the game but it's an inconsistent effort level and he's only a 20 goal scorer because he played a bunch of games on the 2nd line.

I do like Foegele but the Oilers can't afford to pay a fairly inconsistent 12-15 goal scorer, which is what he generally is on a 3rd line, $3M+ with term especially when they have an NHL forward with upside and a much cheaper contract who plays a similar role.
I almost feel the same about Kulak but Broberg appears to be a lot less ready than Hollway is so it could be problematic depending on him to hold down a 3rd pairing.

Still... that $3m+ savings that they'd get for swapping out Foegele+Kulak for Holloway+Broberg could come in real handy in yet another offseason cap crunch before the big boy contracts kick in and really shrink the Cup contention window. This season and next, that's their real shot at a Cup IMO so they need to find savings where they can.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You can't compare a team with one year of playoff wins to a community whose entire identity is at least in part based off of their team's dynasty from 40 years ago. Sorry. Arizona never filled the rink, because they never laid a foundation of success, so their community never had a reason to buy in and give it a chance. In Canada, that reason is hockey. In half of our Canadian markets, there is a tradition of winning (if you go back far enough, eh Tarana).

They weren't an average team. Look at how often they won a playoff round. Go ahead, count the number of years. Since they moved to Arizona, they had only one year that could be judged as successful. A couple of others that you could say they were average, as they overacheived and made the playoffs playing defense first, trap hockey. They missed the playoffs how many times?

You're trying to compare fans returning to support a struggling franchise, regardless of success due to loyalty, to a team that never gave its community a reason to be loyal to it. They never spent on star players. They never played exciting hockey. They won playoff rounds once. And in those playoffs, they filled the rink.

Sorry, but the only comparison between the Oilers and Coyotes from a business perspective that should be taken the least bit seriously, is that awful owners almost took down both franchises. The only reasons we survived Pocklington, is affinity from the community due to our dynasty, and being in Canada. Arizona never had those. They didn't put the people in place to be good enough to compete. You can't blame the fans for not showing up when the organization gave them a reason to in 1 year of their existence.

The NHL pumped tons of money into this market and it failed every time. You just described the virtues of hockey markets and non hockey markets. The Arizona history of support hasn't shown one reason why one should think it should have an NHL team.

You also stated falsely that the most successful seaosn "filled the rink". It did nothing of the sort.

Now tell me if its such a great and fantastic hockey market why good owners didn't step in to save it.

Could just be that it was the worst attended market in the NHL, longstanding. The worst location for an NHL club, period. Last in attendance regularly.