Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

[The Old Master]

McCann is a solid bottom six player with good defensive skills....but he has a hard shot, good release, so people think he has more offense than he’s showed...but that’s not the case because it’s clear that his offensive IQ is not what it needs to be to play in the top six ... any offer we make to sign him should be with this in mind but I still think he’s a solid bottom six player...he’s injured rn so I wouldn’t look to recent slew of games

sounds like what we said about rust.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker is now on a 70 pt pace.

He's been a great addition.

If only he were a RH shot.

 

[Andy99]

He's been a great addition.

If only he were a RH shot.

I wasn’t a big fan of the trade because of the term left on his contract and assets given but I might have to walk back my concerns about him as a player...liking what I’m seeing from him so far

 

[Gurglesons]

I wasn’t a big fan of the trade because of the term left on his contract and assets given but I might have to walk back my concerns about him as a player...liking what I’m seeing from him so far

Zucker was this type of player when the Wild were actually a contender. That’s why he cost what he cost. And it was minimal.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's been a great addition.

If only he were a RH shot.

Only half-joking about this, just so y'all know.

#palmieri2020

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Zucker was this type of player when the Wild were actually a contender. That’s why he cost what he cost. And it was minimal.

I was initially meh on trading Addison in the package for Zucker, simply because he looked promising. But with his play I’m not disappointed at all. Hope he plays this way every year. And when Jake is back fully 100% next year we are deadly at LW.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I was initially meh on trading Addison in the package for Zucker, simply because he looked promising. But with his play I’m not disappointed at all. Hope he plays this way every year. And when Jake is back fully 100% next year we are deadly at LW.

I wanna see them both with Sid. Load up that 1st line.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I still think Zucker's tailor-made for Geno-Rust's LW. Not that he's been bad on Sid's wing, but that's Jake's spot, and I think he'd be even better with Geno and Rust.

Would've been nice for us to have done the Kessel-Zucker deal in the summer to have an entire year of Zucker, but it is what it is. We got the right guy in the end.

 

[Peat]

I wanna see them both with Sid. Load up that 1st line.

Not sure either's the same player on their right as they are on their left.

 

[Tender Rip]

Zucker was this type of player when the Wild were actually a contender. That’s why he cost what he cost. And it was minimal.

Again, it was only minimal if one considers Chucky a complete throw-away. I don't think one can say he has been that at any other team he has ever been at than the Penguins. That's the annoying part asset-management wise.

In the future, if Sully/JR remains the combo which hopefully it will (as it means we remain successful), I really hope JR can walk away from players Sully doesn't like sooner.

Not being critical of the trade. Just saying.

 

[Peat]

Again, it was only minimal if one considers Chucky a complete throw-away. I don't think one can say he has been that at any other team he has ever been at than the Penguins. That's the annoying part asset-management wise.

In the future, if Sully/JR remains the combo which hopefully it will (as it means we remain successful), I really hope JR can walk away from players Sully doesn't like sooner.

Not being critical of the trade. Just saying.

He was traded after 45 games for us. Short of flipping him the moment we traded for him, and never ever signing a player who mightn't fit with Sully's system ever again, I don't see how much quicker you can reasonably expect Rutherford to be. And given how short a sample that is, the fact Chucky was at throw-away levels of asset valuation isn't entirely on us but also on his two preceding seasons. His value was slipping with every game he played for three seasons and we simply happened to be the one holding him when the music stopped.

 

[EightyOne]

i dont see the potential in gally

kahun, though....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again, it was only minimal if one considers Chucky a complete throw-away. I don't think one can say he has been that at any other team he has ever been at than the Penguins. That's the annoying part asset-management wise.

In the future, if Sully/JR remains the combo which hopefully it will (as it means we remain successful), I really hope JR can walk away from players Sully doesn't like sooner.

Not being critical of the trade. Just saying.

JR was trying to trade AG since early Nov....

Buffalo was interested apparently, but they lost interest and went another way when they acquired Frolik.

Not like JR could force other teams to take AG.

Ultimately AG was an issue born of Kessel’s ultra restrictive NTC... the same NTC that got him traded to the Pens and helped this team win two cups.

As I said before, we really can’t bitch about something that benefitted our favorite team so well, even when it bit them in the ass to.

 

[ChaosAgent]

JR was trying to trade AG since early Nov....

Buffalo was interested apparently, but they lost interest and went another way when they acquired Frolik.

Not like JR could force other teams to take AG.

Ultimately AG was an issue born of Kessel’s ultra restrictive NTC... the same NTC that got him traded to the Pens and helped this team win two cups.

As I said before, we really can’t bitch about something that benefitted our favorite team so well, even when it bit them in the ass to.

I don't think this was the best he could do. I think AG had no value in the package going back to Minny - he was just there as a salary match (and to just remove the hex of AG from this team) and the trade would have happened with just Addison and the 1st.

I think that if he pulled the trigger in early November he would have gotten more value. AG's value continuously dropped as the season went along and it was clear he was flailing here. So even if JR didn't like what he was being offered for AG in November it was almost certainly still higher than what he was offered in Jan-February.

I will say that AG was a pro's pro about his struggles here and never caused disruptions. That alone justified the original trade. It's also annoying that hockey is moving in a direction where a player like AG - brilliant individual skills, bad system instincts - is going to be rapidly devalued over time. But it is what it is.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't think this was the best he could do. I think AG had no value in the package going back to Minny - he was just there as a salary match (and to just remove the hex of AG from this team) and the trade would have happened with just Addison and the 1st.

I think that if he pulled the trigger in early November he would have gotten more value. AG's value continuously dropped as the season went along and it was clear he was flailing here. So even if JR didn't like what he was being offered for AG in November it was almost certainly still higher than what he was offered in Jan-February.

I will say that AG was a pro's pro about his struggles here and never caused disruptions. That alone justified the original trade. It's also annoying that hockey is moving in a direction where a player like AG - brilliant individual skills, bad system instincts - is going to be rapidly devalued over time. But it is what it is.

I don’t believe he ever had a concrete offer as only Buffalo had general interest.

That was basically my point.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don’t believe he ever had a concrete offer as only Buffalo had general interest.

That was basically my point.

True enough. Maybe they weren't calling stuff like "hey I'll give ya a 3rd" concrete offers though. We won't know.

Easy to say in 20/20 hindsight that JR should have tried to flip AG immediately last summer, but once the scouting reports started coming out it didn't seem like an obvious fit for what we were trying to do...and he wasn't.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Was never going to be easy to trade a guy with as much control over his destination as Kessel.

It was made doubly difficult because of the way he played himself out of town with temper tantrums, issues with the coach, etc. Nobody wanted the supposed "elite, PPG winger on a sweetheart deal" because, well, he's pretty garbage now. On pace for like 43pts and 16 goals. He was instrumental in the back to back Cups, and we're all forever grateful, but the dude played himself out of town through his petulant outbursts and not giving a shit anymore. He got his name on the Cup, twice in fact, and he's got his money. He's been in full-on coast mode for years at this point.

We're super lucky that we ended up with Zucker anyway. It was never about Zucker's point production on a miserable Wild team over the last few years, it was always about fit, and he's an amazing fit.

 

[JTG]

He’s been awesome and he and Guentzel will be fun as hell to watch tear it up the next couple of seasons.

Unfortunately, they need a guy like McCann to step it up without JG around and he’s been a dud.

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker would be a site to see because Sid would be playing with two wingers tailor made for how he plays. It'd be nearly unstoppable.

If I were JR, I'd try to flip maybe McCann as a base package to Chicago for Saad. I think theyd have some interest in him. Maybe they would be interested in Bjugstad depending how he plays from this point on? I know it'd have to be a hockey trade.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Was never going to be easy to trade a guy with as much control over his destination as Kessel.

It was made doubly difficult because of the way he played himself out of town with temper tantrums, issues with the coach, etc. Nobody wanted the supposed "elite, PPG winger on a sweetheart deal" because, well, he's pretty garbage now. On pace for like 43pts and 16 goals. He was instrumental in the back to back Cups, and we're all forever grateful, but the dude played himself out of town through his petulant outbursts and not giving a shit anymore. He got his name on the Cup, twice in fact, and he's got his money. He's been in full-on coast mode for years at this point.

You wonder if he's a buyout candidate at this point.

Capfriendly's buyout calculator on Phil is wonky and I think wrong - because of the retained salary from Toronto.
Phil Kessel Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You'd think it would be $16M*(2/3)/4 spread over the 4 years...with Toronto then footing 15% of the bill. So $2.3M annually to Zona and $400K annually to Toronto.

But I don't know if there's some weirdness in the CBA around buyouts and retained salary.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Not sure either's the same player on their right as they are on their left.

Only one way to find out. We've never seen the 3 together.

However, we know what Sheary is. He's not the answer.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You wonder if he's a buyout candidate at this point.

Capfriendly's buyout calculator on Phil is wonky and I think wrong - because of the retained salary from Toronto.
Phil Kessel Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You'd think it would be $16M*(2/3)/4 spread over the 4 years...with Toronto then footing 15% of the bill. So $2.3M annually to Zona and $400K annually to Toronto.

But I don't know if there's some weirdness in the CBA around buyouts and retained salary.

Yeah, I dunno. I knew his production would take a hit with not being able to leech off of Geno and benefit from our PP personnel, but he's completely fallen off a cliff. Like, in embarrassing fashion.

I figured he'd be a 60pt guy in Arizona, not a 40-45pt guy. Even as one of his harshest critics, it seems I gave him too much credit.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, I dunno. I knew his production would take a hit with not being able to leech off of Geno and benefit from our PP personnel, but he's completely fallen off a cliff. Like, in embarrassing fashion.

I figured he'd be a 60pt guy in Arizona, not a 40-45pt guy. Even as one of his harshest critics, it seems I gave him too much credit.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Looks like Arizona put Hall out of his misery on playing with Phil REAL quick. And Hall is much better for it. Phil's on/off stats look as bad as JJ's lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Looks like Arizona put Hall out of his misery on playing with Phil REAL quick. And Hall is much better for it. Phil's on/off stats look as bad as JJ's lol.

Even as someone who was very hard on Phil because of his annoying temper tantrums and refusal to play anywhere but with Geno; I'm blown away by his drop off. He can't have lost that much in the span of a year, I don't think. Not physically anyway. It's gotta be a case of the dude simply not giving one single shit anymore, which was about all he gave while he was here for the final season.

Maybe it really is the wheels falling off though. Many of us said for a long time that Phil was a case of a guy that needed to be dealt a season too soon as opposed to trying to deal him a season too late, because when age finally catches up to him, it's gonna be brutal. Still not sure that's happened and what we're seeing isn't purely mental issues, but who knows. I thought he was as good as gone after the Caps series a couple years ago. Still surprised we let him stick around for one more season. In hindsight, I wonder how dramatically that affected his value.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly, I would feel bad for Wild fans if that Kessel-Zucker deal would have gone through. Kessel's just an awful player at this point, he's downright atrocious. Maybe it's just a bad year with being the first year on a new team, but why would anyone think he's going to bounce back dramatically from this season?

The Coyotes didn't give up much for Kessel, because Galchenyuk is a PP specialist and POJ is only about an Addison caliber prospect. If the Wild would have given up Zucker for Kessel, they would have gotten stuck with a bad player while giving up a really damn good player. Zucker is going to be a 30-30 player for the Penguins over a full year, Kessel may never hit 60 points again.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

True enough. Maybe they weren't calling stuff like "hey I'll give ya a 3rd" concrete offers though. We won't know.

Easy to say in 20/20 hindsight that JR should have tried to flip AG immediately last summer, but once the scouting reports started coming out it didn't seem like an obvious fit for what we were trying to do...and he wasn't.

Would have been suspicious to other GMs if he tried to flip him right away.

Like everyone else I wish Kessel didn’t nix the move for Zucker and this team would be stacked right now, but he did.

As I said above, the Kessel NTC helped them immensely, but bit them hard back.

As fans, we can’t bitch too hard since it helped bring two cups.

Nice to dream about him going to Minny though... hard not to.