Speculation: Zaitsev discussion part II

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't know boys, it wasn't that long ago and lot of us were calling Zaitsev a cap dump

NHL front offices value different skill sets way more than your average hfboards poster does and they are willing to pay for it

If there's a market there's value, it looks like multiple teams are in so you may get a shock

Don’t expect much for someone on a long term deal and lots of salary left as well as someone that doesn’t want to play in TO.

Teams always over value their players.

It will be underwhelming.

That's even more true when it comes to fans.

If its a 3rd/4th pick, a middling prospect, and Benning, the first two pieces of the trade may not even get a sniff of the NHL, or maybe a cup of coffee and a few games at best.

If a trade does involve a #6 defender, then we still need two more (assumes both Hainsey & Gardiner depart) and we haven't much cap money to work with. That adds up to roster subtractions it would seem.

 

[Kiwi]

That's even more true when it comes to fans.

If its a 3rd/4th pick, a middling prospect, and Benning, the first two pieces of the trade may not even get a sniff of the NHL, or maybe a cup of coffee and a few games at best.

If a trade does involve a #6 defender, then we still need two more (assumes both Hainsey & Gardiner depart) and we haven't much cap money to work with. That adds up to roster subtractions it would seem.

Marleau has got to go, if you move him the cap situation is way easier to navigate

I've been able to resign Marner at 10M and Kapanen around 3M with some UFA additions (backup goaltender, winger, 4th line center) when I trade Zaitsev for basically nothing (late round pick) and tie Johnsson to Marleau and ditch him that way

I was also able to take Miller's entire cap hit in a trade without sending any salary back

I was bloody close to the cap limit but I was under on cap friendly

So as long as we're not paying for somebody to take Zaitsev were ok

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Marleau has got to go, if you move him the cap situation is way easier to navigate

I've been able to resign Marner at 10M and Kapanen around 3M with some UFA additions (backup goaltender, winger, 4th line center) when I trade Zaitsev for basically nothing (late round pick) and tie Johnsson to Marleau and ditch him that way

I was also able to take Miller's entire cap hit in a trade without sending any salary back

I was bloody close to the cap limit but I was under on cap friendly

So as long as we're not paying for somebody to take Zaitsev were ok

So, in your scenario, we lose Johnsson, Zaitsev, along with Gardiner and Hainsey I presume (you didn't mention what happened to them)? That's 4 roster subtractions which was a subject I mentioned in my post. We add Miller to fill one of the three vacant (RD) defensemen slots. Not sure who you've slotted into the other two vacated defender slots - ELCs I presume?

That could work from a cap perspective I suppose. What was the total cap number that you used - $83 m? I'd wonder if that's a stronger team overall? Hard to say?

I agree that it would best if Marleau could be moved.

 

[Kiwi]

So, in your scenario, we lose Johnsson, Zaitsev, along with Gardiner and Hainsey I presume (you didn't mention what happened to them)? That's 4 roster subtractions which was a subject I mentioned in my post. We add Miller to fill one of the three vacant (RD) defensemen slots. Not sure who you've slotted into the other two vacated defender slots - ELCs I presume?

That could work from a cap perspective I suppose. What was the total cap number that you used - $83 m? I'd wonder if that's a stronger team overall? Hard to say?

I agree that it would best if Marleau could be moved.

Yeah it was a 83M cap number

Hyman Tavares Marner
Tanev (cheapish UFA signing 2.5M) Matthews Nylander
Moore Kadri Kapanen
Engvall 4C (2M) Brown

Rielly Miller
Muzzin Dermott
Rosen Liljegren
I had enough money to resign Hainsey under 2M

Andersen
Talbot (1.5M)

That was under the cap and I had a full 23 man roster

I'm not saying the team is better but it was the best I could come up with, I had to gestimate some of the numbers but I thought I was fair in the signings and trades
I was thinking Zaitsev to Vancouver for a late round pick and Johnsson tied to Marleau going to Arizona for basically nothing which are both pretty fair trades I think

 

[Antropovsky]

Zaitsev is paid just barely over the average pay of an nhl player...also is signed long term to this price, so in a couple years he likely will be below the average pay. Also again, he averaged over 20 mins a night and of course he is the rare right handed defenseman in the prime of his life. In his rookie season, he had 30+ points.

Sportsnet made some good points as to why Zaitsev probably has positive/not negative trade value.

 

[sessiroth]

Honestly, once all the fa signings happen, zaitsev at 4.5 might look like a steal.

 

[Duffman955]

Could Virtanen+3rd work?

I would like to see him paired with Kadri.

 

[Nylander88]

Could Virtanen+3rd work?

I would like to see him paired with Kadri.

I'd like that too. Kadri plays better with commotion going on. I hope he gets a winger with sandpaper to help light his fire. (and hopefully toe the line and learn from this last suspension)

 

[Crysis]

Kapanen + Zaitsev + ? for Larsson from EDM works for me. He had a horrible season and might need a change of scenery since he'll never live up to that trade.

Rielly - Larsson is a dream top pair for the next 8 years.

 

[aingefan]

I’ve a feeling that Dubas would honour Zaitsev’s preferred team list before July 1st.

Good points in this thread that Zaitsev’s place in the market is rising, and his contract is more palatable thanks to inflation.

 

[Myopic]

Per Elliot Friedman:

"Toronto’s asking price for Nikita Zaitsev is either another defenseman or something they can use to get one"

That's obviously pretty vague.

With his salary and term the Leafs won't get much in return. I'd ask for a 2nd or 3rd rd draft pick. They'll be lucky not having to take back another contract.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So, in your scenario, we lose Johnsson, Zaitsev, along with Gardiner and Hainsey I presume (you didn't mention what happened to them)? That's 4 roster subtractions which was a subject I mentioned in my post. We add Miller to fill one of the three vacant (RD) defensemen slots. Not sure who you've slotted into the other two vacated defender slots - ELCs I presume?

That could work from a cap perspective I suppose. What was the total cap number that you used - $83 m? I'd wonder if that's a stronger team overall? Hard to say?

I agree that it would best if Marleau could be moved.

Yeah it was a 83M cap number

Hyman Tavares Marner
Tanev (cheapish UFA signing 2.5M) Matthews Nylander
Moore Kadri Kapanen
Engvall 4C (2M) Brown

Rielly Miller
Muzzin Dermott
Rosen Liljegren
I had enough money to resign Hainsey under 2M

Andersen
Talbot (1.5M)

That was under the cap and I had a full 23 man roster

I'm not saying the team is better but it was the best I could come up with, I had to gestimate some of the numbers but I thought I was fair in the signings and trades
I was thinking Zaitsev to Vancouver for a late round pick and Johnsson tied to Marleau going to Arizona for basically nothing which are both pretty fair trades I think

I guess there's some risk in the two assumptions: a) cap will be $83 m; and, b) Hainsey will sign for under $2m.

But, you have to guess at some things I suppose and hope for the best. Again, I'm not sure its a better roster, but it what it is ultimately because of the cap challenges we face.

 

[Kiwi]

I guess there's some risk in the two assumptions: a) cap will be $83 m; and, b) Hainsey will sign for under $2m.

But, you have to guess at some things I suppose and hope for the best. Again, I'm not sure its a better roster, but it what it is ultimately because of the cap challenges we face.

I did one for under 82M and believe you me its even worse

I had to keep Gauthier and Sparks just to save money, with about half a dozen other trades to get cap compliant

It was brutal

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I did one for under 82M and believe you me its even worse

I had to keep Gauthier and Sparks just to save money, with about half a dozen other trades to get cap compliant

It was brutal

Ya, not hard to imagine that for sure.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Per Elliot Friedman:

"Toronto’s asking price for Nikita Zaitsev is either another defenseman or something they can use to get one"

That's obviously pretty vague.

With his salary and term the Leafs won't get much in return. I'd ask for a 2nd or 3rd rd draft pick. They'll be lucky not having to take back another contract.

It seemed like other article that had the return as a 3rd, B prospect and #6D was better ......???

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Bluelines]

All valid points by Dubas but I can't imagine any scenario where Z comes back. If he received this much hate before he said F U, I want out of here. Imagine how much hate he will receive now that he has "broken up" with Leaf fans, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to bring him back. Send him to a hockey purgatory city like 'Zona or Ottawa...

 

[Maple Leaf]

Does any team want this albatross

 

[Riellyfan04]

dubas has to realize zaitev isnt returning u anyone special.... just get ridd of that cap hit

 

[Guided by Veseys]

They probably would like to sign Marner/Kap/AJ before trading Zaitsev maybe? All that cap space sitting around to be drooled over by the agents.

 

[nuck]

It only starts to really matter on July 1. For all we know they already have deals lined up. No point in obsessing until then. There is a whole chain reaction of deals that will occur once the UFAs are snapped up and the first obvious trades happen and thats July.

 

[Martin Skoula]

dubas has to realize zaitev isnt returning u anyone special.... just get ridd of that cap hit

I don't think we're looking for "special", just a warm body that won't embarrass themselves on the 3rd pairing or spot duty on the 2nd.

 

[Trapper]

Not as bullish as last year on the D.
We will see what he does but his overloading money at forward may come back to bite him.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[KobeBean143]