Yzerman's First Rounders and the Tampa Cup

[MBH]

Yzerman's draft picks had a huge impact on the Tampa Bay Lightning's success.
Point, Kucherov and Vasilevsky were Conn Smythe candidates. Palat and Cirelli also made big contributions.
But except Vasilvesky, none of his first round picks played in these playoffs.
Granted, Namestnikov was part of the McDonough trade. Drouin brought Sergachev.
Just an odd quirk.

Stevie loved trades and unsigned prospects..

Click to read more...

 

[Retire91]

His strength has not been in the high first round. I hope in Tampa he learned from it and is able to bring improvement. He seems to misjudge boom bust talent. But he has a knack for finding sleepers that consensus ranking misses so he makes up for it. I think Koekkoek was also in the first round

I think Yzerman's strengths are deep draft, and big wins through small deals. And pulling off great moves when the chips are down like Martin St. Louis and Drouin. My jaw still drops on that Drouin trade from day one I was like that is an incredible steel.

I think Yzerman also deserves credit for Cooper. A lot of people piled on that he didn't choose an NHL experienced coach but Coop got it done and Yzerman saw something in him. I think we are in good hands when the eventual coach is decided.

On a side note a lot of Tampa posters thing Yzerman's roster was not getting it done because it lacked grit and the players that do the little details that take the team over the top. They credit the new GM for filling that gap. I like to think Yezman was just waiting for the right time to pull the trigger on filling out grit but it sounds like maybe Yzerman focuses too much on speed and skill. Not a bad focus of course, but maybe a blind spot? We'll see.

 

[TCNorthstars]

His strength has not been in the high first round. I hope in Tampa he learned from it and is able to bring improvement. He seems to misjudge boom bust talent. But he has a knack for finding sleepers that consensus ranking misses so he makes up for it. I think Koekkoek was also in the first round

I think Yzerman's strengths are deep draft, and big wins through small deals. And pulling off great moves when the chips are down like Martin St. Louis and Drouin. My jaw still drops on that Drouin trade from day 1 I was like that is an incredible steel.

I think Yzerman also deserves credit for Cooper. A lot of people piled on that he didn't choose an NHL experienced coach but Coop got it done and Yzerman saw something in him. I think we are in good hands when the eventual coach is decided.

On a side note a lot of Tampa posters thing Yzerman's roster was not getting it done because it lacked grit and the players that do the little details that take the team over the top. I like to think Yeoman was just waiting for the reight time to pull the trigger on grit but it sounds like maybe Yzerman focuses too much on speed and skill. Not a bad focus mind you, but maybe a blind spot? We'll see.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Maybe Yzerman learns from Brisebois in that regard.

 

[FabricDetails]

Ken Daniels suggested that Yzerman might draft Drysdale partially because of learning from the past mistake of picking Drouin over Seth Jones. Not really sure if that's a fair comparison but I get the idea.

With his experience in Tampa, I'd like to hope Stevie has developed and evolved a better sense of how to judge and project 17-18 year olds.

 

[Sparty]

People seem to be forgetting that Tampa drafted Tony DeAngelo pretty late in the first round also.

I'd be interested to see how other teams who drafted in similar positions also drafted. I think people just want to knock their first round drafting because they decided not to keep a lot of the guys they drafted. You have to give up something to get something.

 

[raymond23]

The amount of talent Yzerman acquired outside of the 1st round is not even fair. Trust the Yzerplan.

Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Palat
Gourde
Killorn
Johnson
Cernak
Verhaeghe (AHL scoring title)

Ridiculous

 

[Bench]

He goofed drafting Drouin instead of Jones. That was bad.

But more importantly, he recognized his mistake. And he turned that goofed pick into Sergachev.

Being perfect? Overrated. Recognize your mistakes and work to correct them, rather than get caught up in a sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Jon Cusack]

As a Halifax resident I will say that Drouin was absolutely incredible and the most impressive player I’ve seen go through the Mooseheads; just didn’t translate to the next level.

 

[Retire91]

As a Halifax resident I will say that Drouin was absolutely incredible and the most impressive player I’ve seen go through the Mooseheads; just didn’t translate to the next level.

A lot of people warned about Drouin but as many people said he would be incredible. I was a believer. I thought he would absolutely dominate at the next level. I can't fault Yzerman for Drouin honestly he had a lot of people fooled. I do fault Yzerman for Connelly though. Almost every thing I read said that guy had feet of stone and no way he could find scoring areas at the next level. Connelly did eventually win a cup as a bottom sixer but he never became the elite scorer he was supposed to be and I think most people saw that coming.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The amount of talent Yzerman acquired outside of the 1st round is not even fair. Trust the Yzerplan.

Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Palat
Gourde
Killorn
Johnson
Cernak
Verhaeghe (AHL scoring title)

Ridiculous

2nd round or later is what built that Tampa team. The Blake Coleman trade was a good one by Brisebois, but Yzerman would have likely done something similar and lived through the grit trades that made Detroit a success. It's not like this Tampa team went from basement dweller to Stanley cup in one season; They followed a very similar path that Detroit followed from 1990 to 1997. Yzerman set the stage. Brisebois just helped produce the final act.

Also when looking at how Yzerman drafted in the 1st round when he took over, he was looking to put pieces around stamkos and Hedman. Connolly, Drouin, Koekkoek were drafted to support the team's core. Sure, he missed on those picks but nobody gets every pick right all the time.

 

[Henkka]

I was actually thinking the same thing. Maybe Yzerman learns from Brisebois in that regard.

Still think it was just an experiment and test run. First try with skill-heavy. If that doesn't work, bring the grit in.

Don't believe on any blind-spots, quite sure he could build Red Wings same way. Skilled players are favorable assets to sell too, when you are going towards the final winning product. Grit guys maybe don't do the same effect.

Yzerman-Tampa looked like the 1995 1996 Red Wings. Hell of teams. Then these Brisebois fixes made it like 1997 & 1998 team.

What comes to Yzerman's failured 1st round picks, I'm quite sure he learned of them. Guys taken 10 years ago are not any factor how smart Yzerman would be today. He was just starting as GM.

Seider already felt like, now that "SethJones-mistake" was not repeated. Also the scouting Director plays heavy role, and can make the difference. Maybe listening just Håkan is the way to hit with every high pick.

 

[Retire91]

Still think it was just an experiment and test run. First try with skill-heavy. If that doesn't work, bring the grit in.

Don't believe on any blind-spots, quite sure he could build Red Wings same way. Skilled players are favorable assets to sell too, when you are going towards the final winning product. Grit guys maybe don't do the same effect.

Yzerman-Tampa looked like the 1995 1996 Red Wings. Hell of teams. Then these Brisebois fixes made it like 1997 & 1998 team.

What comes to Yzerman's failured 1st round picks, I'm quite sure he learned of them. Guys taken 10 years ago are not any factor how smart Yzerman would be today. He was just starting as GM.

Seider already felt like, now that "SethJones-mistake" was not repeated. Also the scouting Director plays heavy role, and can make the difference. Maybe listening just Håkan is the way to hit with every high pick.

I also agree and I would always want a GM that prioritizes skill over grit. You can add grit to a roster literally in 2-3 months of free agency and trade. It takes years to build a skilled roster. The only thing that concerns me about the criticism is that Tampa's cup window was not brief they have been a threat for some time now. Did Yzerman not see some holes on the gritty side? Or was this just their year grit or no grit. Oh well I don't want to overthink it like most everything else.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I also agree and I would always want a GM that prioritizes skill over grit. You can add grit to a roster literally in 2-3 months of free agency and trade. It takes years to build a skilled roster. The only thing that concerns me about the criticism is that Tampa's cup window was not brief they have been a threat for some time now. Did Yzerman not see some holes on the gritty side? Or was this just their year grit or no grit. Oh well I don't want to overthink it like most everything else.

It's not "missing holes on the grit side". All this talk cheapens the Cup and what it takes to win it. I mean, Tampa literally went to game 7 in two conference finals against Pittsburgh (who won the Cup) and Washington (who won the Cup) surrounded by missing the playoffs with 94 points and last year's sweep by the Blue Jackets. Tampa absolutely had enough talent and physical play to win the Cup multiple times. But there is a team on the other end that had the talent and physical play to do so as well.

Everything has to come together at the right time for a Cup run. If there was a single "formula", some team would have figured it out and be rolling in the titles by now.

A GM tries to structure their roster as good as they can and then the players have to play it out. If you really look at the 2008-2009 final, Detroit's roster was still better than Pittsburgh's and if you replay game 7 in Detroit 1000 times, the Wings probably win 950 of those 1000. But that's not what happened. Does that mean they didn't have the roster for it? No, it's just the other team was good too.

You should prioritize skill over grit 100 times out of 100. You just have to have guys who play hard. I mean, Pavel Datsyuk was a greasy player. Henrik Zetterberg was anything but soft.

 

[Gniwder]

Maybe listening just Håkan is the way to hit with every high pick.

Hopefully he gets to pick at least one 2nd rounder in each of the next two drafts consider we have a bunch of them.

 

[Ulysses31]

He goofed drafting Drouin instead of Jones. That was bad.

But more importantly, he recognized his mistake. And he turned that goofed pick into Sergachev.

Being perfect? Overrated. Recognize your mistakes and work to correct them, rather than get caught up in a sunk cost fallacy.

As a Halifax resident I will say that Drouin was absolutely incredible and the most impressive player I’ve seen go through the Mooseheads; just didn’t translate to the next level.

Drouin was is a bit of an enigma. Sure he lacked/lacks that elite hockey iq , but is an amazing talent. He showed flashes of domination in the NHL too (2015-16 playoffs).

Whether it was attitude issue, psychological issues, personal issues or mishandling of developement, it seems like a terrible waste drouin isnt even at least a 70 point player.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I never understood how much flak the Drouin pick gets. Do his numbers justify a top 5 pick? No. But he’s in the league and scores around 15-20 goals most years. There’s way worse busts than that and I wouldn’t even consider Drouin a bust. Just an underachiever.

If that’s the worst thing you’ve done in your tenure, you’ve probably done a pretty damn good job. And he did...

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

Ken Daniels suggested that Yzerman might draft Drysdale partially because of learning from the past mistake of picking Drouin over Seth Jones. Not really sure if that's a fair comparison but I get the idea.

With his experience in Tampa, I'd like to hope Stevie has developed and evolved a better sense of how to judge and project 17-18 year olds.

Well, as much as I would LOVE it if he drafts Drysdale, because I think he's (probably) going to be a very special #1 D-man:

I don't think anyone could fault Stevie for drafting Drouin. He hasn't reached the level people thought he would, but you can still see how talented the guy is. Everyone, at that time, thought that guy was going to the The Shit. The same way people are now touting Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, and Raymond. If I recall correctly, Seth Jones was also valued, but I don't know how many people had him in front of Drouin. Hind sight is 20-20, yada yada.

 

[Bench]

I never understood how much flak the Drouin pick gets. Do his numbers justify a top 5 pick? No. But he’s in the league and scores around 15-20 goals most years. There’s way worse busts than that and I wouldn’t even consider Drouin a bust. Just an underachiever.

If that’s the worst thing you’ve done in your tenure, you’ve probably done a pretty damn good job. And he did...

It's not that. Drouin isn't a bust or anything. He's a good player.

But it was a bad pick for the Lightning. There was a layup right there in Seth Jones and Yzerman picked the wrong kid.

It happens. That's the risk of any draft pick. Sometimes you miss the right choice. But what impressed me is that Yzerman saw that early, didn't cave to Drouin's ice time demands, and kept Drouin until he could get suitable value and correct a mistake.

I think a lot of GMs would have just hung onto their top pick and hope it works out.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Well, as much as I would LOVE it if he drafts Drysdale, because I think he's (probably) going to be a very special #1 D-man:

I don't think anyone could fault Stevie for drafting Drouin. He hasn't reached the level people thought he would, but you can still see how talented the guy is. Everyone, at that time, thought that guy was going to the The Shit. The same way people are now touting Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, and Raymond. If I recall correctly, Seth Jones was also valued, but I don't know how many people had him in front of Drouin. Hind sight is 20-20, yada yada.

Seth Jones was in the running to go #1 to some people that year, it was talked about Colorado taking him over MacKinnon. Barkov was surprising but made sense because Florida wanted the big center. Stevie really shouldn't have passed on Jones, not at the time and it has gotten worse with hindsight. They got there eventually anyway, I think him having to watch it from Detroit instead of getting it and then moving onto Detroit is unfortunate for Yzerman and I do think that is ultimately down to this draft. He might have reloaded correctly on the Drouin trade, as @Bench said that is actually a good sign. He is unafraid to move big players and prospects, we are going to need that at some point in our rebuild. I do hope he avoids the draft mistakes he has had at times in the first round. Part of that is on Draper and Hakan to be different advisors though and for those talking about the second round Al Murray plays a pretty big role in that success, arguably more than Yzerman once you get out of the high end picks though Yzerman has always scouted more than your typical GM.

 

[lidstromiscool]

With the Coyotes pick getting eliminated, it basically gives Detroit 4 2nd round picks. I'm pretty excited about that.

 

[SirloinUB]

It’s fascinating how often you see people want the home run swing draft pick. Everyone wants the high skill guys but not prepared to deal with the consequences when you strike out swinging for the fences.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I mean, some of these were Al Murray.

 

[TCNorthstars]

It’s fascinating how often you see people want the home run swing draft pick. Everyone wants the high skill guys but not prepared to deal with the consequences when you strike out swinging for the fences.

Found 1 of the votes for Lundell.

 

[SirloinUB]

Found 1 of the votes for Lundell.

I do like Lundell actually. I think he is an underrated prospect but no, I didn’t vote for him

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean, some of these were Al Murray.

Even if Yzermen scouts more than an average GM, he is still not a scout. This board has always over-attributed draft success and failure to GMs. His greatest contribution to drafting is assembling and managing his scouting staff, not making specific picks.

I for one am glad that the Wings were not his first management job. Everyone in his position makes mistakes and I am glad that his initial mistakes and scare tissue were made or acquired on Tampa's dime.