You're the GM, it time to make changes Part II

[Zippy316]

i don't think anyone is fine with it.... to me he is a fantastic defensman and hands down without question the best player on nj

but..... in my opinion the group of forwards on NJ is so bad that we are years away from being any good.... Greene will be 35-36 years old at that point... and to me he is the only guy on this team that can bring back something of major value.. does it make NJ much worse in the short term....yep... but if he can bring back eichel or mcdavid it may be worth it....

this is assuming we are not all over estimating the likes of larsson, merrill, severson etc... which we could very well be

It'll make the Devils worse both in the short term and long term.

You NEED a guy like Greene to take some responsibility of the youngsters. It's crucial for their development. You throw young guys against top competition in this league (see Edmonton) it's not easy to develop. A guy like Greene for the next few years gives his partners like Severson and Larsson -- look how they have played next to him -- a calming influence. Also, it prevents us from overplaying a guy like Merrill.

I don't get why that's a hard concept to get.

 

[captainscott]

I don't understand it either.

You can see what an effect Greene has had on the development of Fayne, Severson, and Larsson so far. I can't imagine our defense honestly without him stabilizing it, it struggled enough with Gelinas, Severson, Merrill, and Larsson all seeing time.

You need a guy like Greene who can eat minutes and help develop the young guys. If Merrill is struggling at times playing ~18 minutes against second line opponents, how do you think he will fare against top lines and 20+ minutes.

your point is valid.... but i think you have to pose the question as: if we land one of the top two picks in this year's draft for andy greene.... is it worth it?

im not for trading andy greene for a 17th overall pick in draft.... i am for trading him if we get a can't miss young forward.. so i can't speak for other peoples andy greene trade return but if edmonton is willing to take a legit #1 dman with long term deal for their #1 pick I'm intrigued

 

[captainscott]

It'll make the Devils worse both in the short term and long term.

You NEED a guy like Greene to take some responsibility of the youngsters. It's crucial for their development. You throw young guys against top competition in this league (see Edmonton) it's not easy to develop. A guy like Greene for the next few years gives his partners like Severson and Larsson -- look how they have played next to him -- a calming influence. Also, it prevents us from overplaying a guy like Merrill.

I don't get why that's a hard concept to get.

its not a hard concept to get.... those are your words:

would you trade greene for mcdavid?

 

[Zippy316]

your point is valid.... but i think you have to pose the question as: if we land one of the top two picks in this year's draft for andy greene.... is it worth it?

im not for trading andy greene for a 17th overall pick in draft.... i am for trading him if we get a can't miss young forward.. so i can't speak for other peoples andy greene trade return but if edmonton is willing to take a legit #1 dman with long term deal for their #1 pick I'm intrigued

We aren't going to so it's irrelevant.

For what we would trade Greene for, it's not worth the negative effect it would have to the young D. Nor is it worth losing what he gives us in terms of his stability.

 

[captainscott]

We aren't going to so it's irrelevant.

For what we would trade Greene for, it's not worth the negative effect it would have to the young D. Nor is it worth losing what he gives us in terms of his stability.

I'm giving you a legit question player for player if we got the #1 pick for andy greene in this years draft would you do it?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It's the same conversation every time. If Andy Greene's biggest contribution is veteran experience the Devils can find that somewhere else. The reasoning behind trading him is if the Devils are doing a full rebuild he brings back the most in trade. The Devils need pieces to trade and don't have many...if they need to keep Greene too they're stuck.

It all depends on if Lou can get value at the deadline, draft, and offseason they'll be in better position and not have to consider dealing Greene.

if you think that Andy Greene's biggest contribution is "veteran experience", I think you need to take another look at your evaluations of players.

you want to trade Greene daily though so I don't know why I even bother.

 

[Zippy316]

It's the same conversation every time. If Andy Greene's biggest contribution is veteran experience the Devils can find that somewhere else. The reasoning behind trading him is if the Devils are doing a full rebuild he brings back the most in trade. The Devils need pieces to trade and don't have many...if they need to keep Greene too they're stuck.

It all depends on if Lou can get value at the deadline, draft, and offseason they'll be in better position and not have to consider dealing Greene.

So let me get this straight.

You want the Devils to trade their only good veteran D and replace him with someone from free agency to provide the veteran defense and stability he does.

Please inform me how well the rest of our UFA acquisitions have gone for us except for Cammalleri.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its not a hard concept to get.... those are your words:

would you trade greene for mcdavid?

this isn't even a plausible scenario so I am not sure why its even being brought up.

 

[yehyeh]

I'm giving you a legit question player for player if we got the #1 pick for andy greene in this years draft would you do it?

If we could trade Lou's left ear and Salvador for this years #1 draft pick I would. Basically the same level of realism. Greene for #1 won't happen. No need to discuss.

 

[Zippy316]

I'm giving you a legit question player for player if we got the #1 pick for andy greene in this years draft would you do it?

When was the last time a top five draft pick was traded for a player?

I can't recall one post-lockout and there's a good reason for that. The cost of trading up to the top five, especially this year, is not Andy Greene. Your point is irrelevant because it won't happen. The value Greene would return would probably be a prospect and mid-to-late first.

Does that type of value really change anything for us?

 

[captainscott]

this isn't even a plausible scenario so I am not sure why its even being brought up.

please explain why not? if edmonton wins the lottery and they have the #1 pick why is this not plausible?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

please explain why not? if edmonton wins the lottery and they have the #1 pick why is this not plausible?

no team is ever going to trade out of the #1 spot and pass up a generational talent.

the fact that you actually think that they might even consider it kind of scares me.

 

[captainscott]

When was the last time a top five draft pick was traded for a player?

I can't recall one post-lockout and there's a good reason for that. The cost of trading up to the top five, especially this year, is not Andy Greene. Your point is irrelevant because it won't happen. The value Greene would return would probably be a prospect and mid-to-late first.

Does that type of value really change anything for us?

i don't care what you can recall.... and maybe its far fetched but edmonton has 3 number 1 picks already maybe they will trade this years


so if we give them greene and our #1 pick which will be a top 10..... for their #1 you say there is no way they would do that?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

i don't care what you can recall.... and maybe its far fetched but edmonton has 3 number 1 picks already maybe they will trade this years


so if we give them greene and our #1 pick which will be a top 10..... for their #1 you say there is no way they would do that?

now you are completely changing what you said originally.

and I am still saying it wouldnt happen.

 

[captainscott]

no team is ever going to trade out of the #1 spot and pass up a generational talent.

the fact that you actually think that they might even consider it kind of scares me.

well ok at least you gave me an answer.... you think its crazy for edmonton to give up the pick,..... fair enough

would they trade nugent hopkins maybe?

 

[yehyeh]

i don't care what you can recall.... and maybe its far fetched but edmonton has 3 number 1 picks already maybe they will trade this years


so if we give them greene and our #1 pick which will be a top 10..... for their #1 you say there is no way they would do that?

I think you're underestimating the projected success McDavid will have in the NHL. He's projected to be a franchise changing player and no team or fan base will be behind trading that player away. It just shouldn't happen in 2015.

 

[captainscott]

now you are completely changing what you said originally.

ere is what i would do and I'm thinking more in terms of 2-3 year rebuilding.

1. Trade Andy Greene and our #1 pick to Edmonton for their #1 pick assuming they are top 2 pick. so deal to be made after lottery at draft day.


that was my original post so maybe you missed it

 

[Oneiro]

Do people even watch the game?

Greene is the definition of what this team is about - working your way up to a level of hockey IQ that is hard to buy and trade for.

Players aren't produce you buy at the store and then have to use up before next week rolls around. The guy is a leader, he has saved everyone's ass time and time again and his level of poise is off the charts. He's exactly the sort of guy you keep around during tough times.

He is not a dinosaur SAH guy who will slow down and contribute nothing.

We can only hope that Severson, Larsson and Merrill grow as much as this guy has.

Greene doesn't change another franchise the way McDavid or Eichel does. Whether in combination with another top 5 pick or not. There is no return, short of a Jamie Benn, that is good enough to fill the void you create when you deal Greene.

 

[captainscott]

I think you're underestimating the projected success McDavid will have in the NHL. He's projected to be a franchise changing player and no team or fan base will be behind trading that player away. It just shouldn't happen in 2015.

i don't think so either but if the deal was somehow on the table we would jump at it? that was my point I'm not for giving up greene for some unknown here either

so the consensus is that edmonton would have a coup on their hands if they did this

ok fine that was my question

 

[captainscott]

Do people even watch the game?

Greene is the definition of what this team is about - working your way up to a level of hockey IQ that is hard to buy and trade for.

Players aren't produce you buy at the store and then have to use up before next week rolls around. The guy is a leader, he has saved everyone's ass time and time again and his level of poise is off the charts. He's exactly the sort of guy you keep around during tough times.

We can only hope that Severson, Larsson and Merrill grow as much as this guy has.

how does trading a player translate into us not thinking he is a great player... in fact i think andy greene is good enough to get an extremely hight return hence the argument

 

[yehyeh]

how does trading a player translate into us not thinking he is a great player... in fact i think andy greene is good enough to get an extremely hight return hence the argument

Let's see if I can end this suggestion. Had we another player identical to Andy Greene, it would be a worth while trade. But, having a high risk defenceman like Zid, being the only veteran D-man, wouldn't put us in a better situation for the development of the youth movement we have happening for our defence.

Andy Greene is part of the core of the Devils system currently in place.

 

[John Pedro]

Trade Jagr, Zids, Bernier, Havlat for picks
Pick a good offense player with our first (not Lawson Crouse or Rantanen, please)
Sign Vermette - 4yr, 20M
Sign Frolik - 3yr, 8M .
Sign Matthias - 1yr, 1,5M
Do not resign Ryder, Havlat, Salvador,Tootoo and Harrold
Clowe LTIR


Cammalleri - Vermette - Frolik
Elias - Henrique - Boucher
Ruutu - Zajac - Matthias
Gionta - Josefson - Zubrus

Greene - Severson
Merrill - Larsson
Gelinas - Helgeson

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would not sign Vermette for $5 million/year.

 

[Zippy316]

I would not sign Vermette for $5 million/year.

Regardless, it'll cost more than that to sign him on the open market.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would not sign ANY free agent who is 30+ years old to anything more than a 2 year contract.