Speculation: Your 2016/17 tank lineup. What place do we finish?

[Advanced stats]

1. You want to sign kadri as a future 3c to 6 mill with term? That is what he'll eventually be if we draft Matthews. Which is A 20% chance. I think ur 90% stat was pulled from your ass.

2. Your Zaitsev stat stinks of ass too.

3. So trade hyman/Sosh/brown? Put em on waivers? What if nobody gives us fair value? They all looked better then marner did at camp that's for sure. Or are we putting marner on a pedestal?

4. Laine and pul have never played North American hockey. Should we put leipsic on waivers then if we can't trade him?

I'm not saying those guys won't be on the team. But saying there's a 90% chance they're all there without accounting for the contracts there replacing is just being ignorant.

1. What about signing kadri as a 2c at 5 million? Why do you say he'll be a 3c? I'll take a fiesty, 50 pt, 2-way center like Kadri.
2. Zaitsev is so dedicated to Toronto, he won't even talk to other teams. His contract is verbal now, only cause he can't sign till his seasons done. I'll take the insiders opinion over yours, thanks.
3. So keep the better player in the minors because connor brown would like to play 3rd line right wing? give me a break... Why not play them all? Rotate them through?
4. So Laine and Puli won't fit than? European rookies come over all the time and take the league by storm. Why not a couple of the best draft picks this year?

I swear your coming up with ridiculous reasons to try and make this team worse for some reason. This is a developing team...not an eternal tank.

 

[horner]

kadri could be gone if he asks for too much money or we draft Matthews. If he is gone, he could be replaced with a positional need, a prospect, or draft picks. Some of those options might not help our team next year.

Is marner more nhl ready then hyman/soshnikov/brown? Maybe, but then u have to move those contracts. Is that the right decision?

We don't know if Zaitsev signing is a sure thing until it happens. Simple as that. And we don't know how he stacks up against our current nhl dmen on North american ice in the nhl.

While most likely, Matthews plays in the nhl, maybe the others too.. We only have a 20% chance at matthews. It is also a viable option for management to put those players in the ahl to get accustomed to North American ice, while seeing what some of our prospects who we could risk losing to waivers have to offer.

To summarize. Those are less likely to be sure things then contracts already in place.

Since the new year we have gotten points in 19 games and lost 9 games by 1 point. So with any luck we could have won 28 games. All this without Bozak and JVR add to that our talented kids only played 10 games.

And our goaltending wasn't the best.
Sparks ( not ready for prime time ) played half of the games after the trade deadline..

So with any luck we could have had 25 wins.

50 points @46 games = 89 points @82 games.

We have reason to be very optimistic about next season.

I know Babs and management are not thinking tank.

 

[Jeypic]

1. What about signing kadri as a 2c at 5 million? Why do you say he'll be a 3c? I'll take a fiesty, 50 pt, 2-way center like Kadri.
2. Zaitsev is so dedicated to Toronto, he won't even talk to other teams. His contract is verbal now, only cause he can't sign till his seasons done. I'll take the insiders opinion over yours, thanks.
3. So keep the better player in the minors because connor brown would like to play 3rd line right wing? give me a break... Why not play them all? Rotate them through?
4. So Laine and Puli won't fit than? European rookies come over all the time and take the league by storm. Why not a couple of the best draft picks this year?

I swear your coming up with ridiculous reasons to try and make this team worse for some reason. This is a developing team...not an eternal tank.

I'll make this very simple for you.

You have to get rid of players currently in your lineup, to bring new players in, yes.

If we cannot find trade partners for those players replaced, we will lose them to waiver.

Under no circumstances do we lose marner/laine/pulj/dubois to waivers, wherever they play.

Is the value of having marner in the nhl next year, so much better then having brown, that if we can't find a trade partner for brown, we should just put him on waivers and lose him? just so that marner can play in the nhl?

You can't just rotate them.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'll make this very simple for you.

You have to get rid of players currently in your lineup, to bring new players in, yes.

If we cannot find trade partners for those players replaced, we will lose them to waiver.

Under no circumstances do we lose marner/laine/pulj/dubois to waivers, wherever they play.

Is the value of having marner in the nhl next year, so much better then having brown, that if we can't find a trade partner for brown, we should just put him on waivers and lose him? just so that marner can play in the nhl?

You can't just rotate them.

1. You will always have trade partners for *****, sosh, brown.
2. Why can't you play them all?

 

[Jeypic]

1. You will always have trade partners for *****, sosh, brown.
2. Why can't you play them all?

We don't want to have to trade them yet if we don't have too.

Those players you rotate out, have to pass waivers, at which point any team can claim them. Players of that calibre will be gone and we will have nothing to show for it.

 

[Advanced stats]

We don't want to have to trade them yet if we don't have too.

Those players you rotate out, have to pass waivers, at which point any team can claim them. Players of that calibre will be gone and we will have nothing to show for it.

I'm not advocating to trade anyone under 27. There's ways to make it work...

Didn't know you had to be placed on waivers to be a healthy scratch

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Tanking doesnt help really
Not much difference between finishing 26th or 30th anymore.
Sadly.

Bettman got rid of the tank.
By making the top 3 spots lottery.

So we are going to suck if Bernier plays average and really suck if he plays poorly.

 

[Jeypic]

I'm not advocating to trade anyone under 27. There's ways to make it work...

Didn't know you had to be placed on waivers to be a healthy scratch

So you want to trade bozack/hunwick/komarov to make room for Zaitsev, marner, 2016 draft pick?

I don't see us moving laich greening bernier or michaleks contract in the offseason. So those are the rest of the guys over 27.

There are ways to make it work I guess... That's a young team though.

The argument could be made that the press box is better suited for a waiver eligible prospect like Percy. While marner develops on ice.

 

[aingefan]

For this exercise, just using guys in the system, I don't think there's quite enough depth and quality yet to not emphasize the protection of waiver eligible guys to the extent possible; especially given that they have performed pretty well, have some offence and play a pretty good two way game. Not unlike last year, this might mean that some guys get time to brew even more in the A.

Leivo as a regular, and (soft spot in my heart) probably one of Sam Carrick or Colin Smith up front as the extra forward. That's two forwards, risk of losing one.

On D, it's a little harder given Reilly/Gardiner/Hunwick in place....but there's room to preserve four of Marincin, Connor Carrick, Harrington, Corrado and Percy. That's preserving 4 of 5 waiver eligible guys. Percy seems to be the odd man out, and could be moved in any number of ways. That's 7 of a max 8 spots, risk of losing one. Rotated in and out to mitigate concern by overusing youth.

Mihalek and Komarov are suitable complimentary vets for the top two lines. There's JVR. Bozak and Kadri can man two of the top three C spots. Laich and Greening are fine for the fourth line. Froese and Holland are in there too, but might be squeezed out for value, like Percy. So, that's two plus 7-9... totalling 9-11 forwards.

From there, it's on to guys who've earned it and are ready. Nylander makes 10-12 forwards. Hyman and Sosh seem pretty close to making it 12-14. So, without addition, there's a roster of 14 forwards that preserves player assets, which is one too many. Five young guys....more than a third, which might be an issue.

Next wave includes non-waiver eligible guys like Brown, and Leipsic. Followed by guys who've had a sniff but seem to need more time, like Kapanen, Lindberg, Goat and others. And guys like Johnson and Marner who might blow past all of them.

Whatever is added externally pushes existing guys aside to either be moved for value and or snuck back down to the A.

I personally see the most value in trading some of the better talent from the top of the roster (JVR and Bozak, maybe Holland) for picks and promising youth, in there's legit opportunity to add from outside (Stammer).

 

[Christ]

I believe that the tear down is done after this summer is finished. That said, it is impossible to even really guess where the team will finish at this point. If the Leafs decide to go out and buy a couple high end free agents and add a goaltender we could be looking at a middle of the pack finish, possibly even flirting with the playoffs. If they decide to go slow and steady and not sign anyone of note the team is likely to finish in a similar position to this season though I think last is not likely when we add some of the young players set to make the NHL roster next year.

 

[34]

Don't think we will be tanking next season.


IF we draft Matthews, sign Stamkos and a few other tweaks... the team should be well on its way to competing.

 

[Jeypic]

Don't think we will be tanking next season.


IF we draft Matthews, sign Stamkos and a few other tweaks... the team should be well on its way to competing.

Realistically about a 20% chance of either of those things happening but ok.

 

[TML1967]

SO,

I think the question the OP is getting at is, without new NHL talent, how would this team fair with
a) a full training camp
b) a full summer to work out
c)a full year of Marner, Hyman, Sosh, Brown

Id say they would do better then last year, but the big ??? is Goaltending.
If we have the Bernier from begining of the year? 28-30th
If we get the Bernier post trade deadline, who is about or slightly above league average? 9th to 11th in the east.

 

[Zybalto]

SO,

I think the question the OP is getting at is, without new NHL talent, how would this team fair with
a) a full training camp
b) a full summer to work out
c)a full year of Marner, Hyman, Sosh, Brown

Id say they would do better then last year, but the big ??? is Goaltending.
If we have the Bernier from begining of the year? 28-30th
If we get the Bernier post trade deadline, who is about or slightly above league average? 9th to 11th in the east.

I know its maddening but Bernier was one of the best goalies in hockey since the deadline. He put up Carey Price Vezina numbers during that stretch with an AHL team in front of him. (save % north of .930)

If we get that Bernier for a year, we are a playoff team for sure.....but don't think thats happening. Injuries and inconsistency will probably come into play again but I think we'll pick up another vet to share the load.

 

[Doug Gilmour]

If that were the lineup on opening night, then I'd have to say that's a bottom 10 team. Add Kadri back cause he ain't going nowhere, Zaitsev, Marner (all depends camp) and Matthews, then we're cooking to be fighting for a wild card spot with how many teams are going into rebuild/retool mode.

 

[Advanced stats]

1. You want to sign kadri as a future 3c to 6 mill with term? That is what he'll eventually be if we draft Matthews. Which is A 20% chance. I think ur 90% stat was pulled from your ass.

2. Your Zaitsev stat stinks of ass too.

3. So trade hyman/Sosh/brown? Put em on waivers? What if nobody gives us fair value? They all looked better then marner did at camp that's for sure. Or are we putting marner on a pedestal?

4. Laine and pul have never played North American hockey. Should we put leipsic on waivers then if we can't trade him?

I'm not saying those guys won't be on the team. But saying there's a 90% chance they're all there without accounting for the contracts there replacing is just being ignorant.

Lol the next day kadri signs and zaitsev promises once again he's signing in 3 weeks!!!! Your a little off Jeypic

 

[Man Bear Pig]

There's way too many possibilities this summer that you can't really say where this team will finish. Stamkos,Vesey,Matthews,Zaitsev etc. Plus having so many picks,winger prospects and waiver eligible players, you gotta figure they aren't just gonna sit back and aim for last place again. Moves will be made, moves that'll improve the team. I just can't see Lou,Babcock and company accepting another year in the basement. Rielly,Marner,Nylander plus this year's pick...the core is coming together. That's 4 top picks, which is why I don't understand why people think we're in year 1 of a rebuild. You don't need to finish dead last to rebuild.

 

[one77]

JVR - Matthews - Marner
Stamkos - Nylander - Kapanen
Komarov - Kadri - Soshnikov
Hyman - Gauthier - Brown

Rielly - X
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Loov - Valiev
-Marincin/Percy/Harrington/Dermott/Nielsen

 

[Man Bear Pig]

JVR - Matthews - Marner
Stamkos - Nylander - Kapanen
Komarov - Kadri - Soshnikov
Hyman - Gauthier - Brown

Rielly - X
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Loov - Valiev
-Marincin/Percy/Harrington/Dermott/Nielsen

You think they'll go into next year with 11 rookies on the roster?

 

[pucci2001]

You think they'll go into next year with 11 rookies on the roster?

I expect them to sign some more rentals to trade for some draft picks.

I could see us chasing a guy like Okposo or maybe even Lucic for a short term actual contract, nothing more than 3 or 4 years though. Also maybe they would bring in some guys Detroit might lose if Babs still loves them(Helm, Abdelkader).

For rentals we could go after Ladd, Elias if he doesnt hang em up, Boyle, PAP, Hodgson(reclaimation project). The list is long, we don't have to care about how the player does if its only a one year deal. If they perform we get some assets if they don't we can just bury them until the season ends.

It is impossible to guess what our whole roster will look like but we can name people that are for sure going to be there.

 

[Calacatz]

Leafs will be in the playoffs!

 

[zeke]

Matthews - Stamkos - Nylander
VanRiemsdyk - Kadri - Marner
Komarov - Bozak - Brown
Hyman - Froese - Soshnikov
(Greening - Laich -Michalek)

Gardiner - Rielly
Hunwick - Zaitsev
Marincin - Carrick
(Valiev - Corrado)

Reimer
Bernier
(Sparks)


4th place in the East.

 

[Muston Atthews]

JVR-Stamkos-Marner
Matthews-Nylander-xxx
Komarov-Kadri-xxx
Laich-Bozak-Greening
xxx=Brown, Soshnikov, Hyman, Lindberg, Leivo, A. Johnson, Michalek

Rielly-Hunwick
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Marincin-Carrick
extras=Valiev, Corrado, Harrington, Loov

Still think we sign a d man in FA ala Hunwicks replacement at the deadline. Even having Laine or Puljujarvi would look sexy as hell

 

[Hero]

Forwards.

Vet. Locks
Kadri
JvR
Komarov
Bozak

Vet. Safe Bets
Laich
Michalek
Greening

Leafs 5 open spots for Marlies
Locks...
Nylander
Soshnikov
Hyman

2 of...
Brown
Kapanen
Carrick
Lindberg
Gauthier

I'm guessing Leafs do Brown and 1 other UFA

JvR - Kadri - Hyman
Soshnikov - Nylander - Komarov
Michalek - Bozak - Brown
Greening - Laich - UFA

Something like that, but also Hyman on top line seems iffy.

D

Rielly - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Marincin
xxxx - xxxx

With Carrick, Love, Corrado, Harrington, Percy taking 2 of the last spots.

I think it's a 20th place finish team. Just because you have a healthy roster, the young guys develop, and you add in Zaitsev.

 

[Canada4Gold]

It's not a tank lineup but it'll get lost quite quickly in the Kadri/Rielly thread so reposting here

Looking at this affects the cap for next year....

Assuming we buyout Cowen and not counting ELC's or buryable contracts Leafs have $57,385,833 committed to 9 forwards, 4 D, and 1 goalie next year. That includes Cowen's cap benefit, Gleason's buyout, Kessel's retention, and this years cap overage of $502,500 due to Rielly hitting bonuses. It also included Horton.

If we assume Horton LTIR for full relief, that drops down to $52,085,833 with the following lineup. I'm not going to assume we can LTIR Robidas or anyone else.

JVR - ______ - ______
______ - Kadri - Komarov
Michalek - Bozak - ______
Laich - ______ - ______
Greening, Lupul

Rielly - ______
Gardiner - ______
______ - ______
Hunwick

Bernier
______

With Horton, and Robidas nowhere to be found.

Toss in Nylander, Brown, Soshnikov, and Hyman in the forward corps, then we need to make some RFA/Zaitsev signings. Throw Carrick, Marincin, and Zaitsev in on the back end, Sparks in goal, and Holland up front. Zaitsev getting 925k, Carrick 800k, and Marincin 900k, Sparks 700k, Holland 1 million(just quick estimates), and the following lineup take shape for $59,653,331

JVR - ______ - Soshnikov
Nylander - Kadri - Komarov
Michalek - Bozak - Brown
Laich - Holland - Hyman
Greening, Lupul

Rielly - ______
Gardiner - Carrick
Marincin - Zaitsev
Hunwick

Bernier
Sparks

Which leaves 2 spots needed to fill. Assuming a 74 million dollar cap(is the cap number out for next year yet?) we have $14,346,669 in cap space. Plenty of room for Stamkos if management wants to take that route. Which is why I put Kadri on the 2nd line, and shifted Nylander to wing to leave that as an option.

You also need to fill that top pairing D role. Which could be tough. Kadri was my trade chip to acquire a young defenceman like Brodin, but given they just committed to him for 6 years it would be bad business to trade him anytime soon, we may need to look to UFA.

There's also the possibilities of Vesey and Matthews/Laine/+ being obtained and they get/earn spots, as well as Marner, and other young guys like Johnson, Kapenen, Lindberg, Leivo, Leipsic, Harrington, Corrado, Percy, Loov, Froese, Gauthier, but they're all pretty cheap so for purposes of figuring out how much cap space we may have they're interchangeable with most of the lineup above.